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Interfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Interfaith Dialogue
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Mishmish
 
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Quote Mishmish Replybullet Posted: 31 May 2006 at 8:46pm

I am sure some people who leave Islam do hate it. That's why they leave.

Islam teaches that God holds you responsible, and most people don't like to hear that. It is much easier to be able to do what ever you want and fear no consequences. If you are looking for an easy ride and a free pass, Islam is certainly not for you.

However, if you believe that you are held responsible for your own actions and there are consequences for what you do, then you will seek out Islam. Most people who revert to Islam are very logical and somewhat intelligent. They have experienced the other side, usually Christianity, and realise in their hearts and minds that it just doesn't make any sense.

There are Muslims living all over the "free" world. They could leave Islam if they chose. Instead of seeing huge numbers of these Muslims leaving Islam instead we see large numbers of Westerners reverting to Islam. There must be a reason for this.

Here is part of an article written by a Christian Missionary, Larry Poston, who was trying to figure out why so many older, well read, knowledgeable Westerners revert to Islam:

Islam's older converts
My research at Northwestern University investigated religious conversion from another angle. Rather than duplicate the efforts of earlier scholars who limited themselves to the Christian experience, I explored the phenomenon of conversion to another missionary religion—Islam. I examined the published accounts of 60 Western converts to Islam and personally interviewed 10 others. The results contrasted sharply with Starbuck's statistics.

The average age of a Western convert to Islam is approximately 31 years, almost double that of the convert to Christianity. Several persons were in their forties, fifties, and sixties. Islam seems to appeal to a much older group of people. This age difference made the subject of motivating factors of great interest as I investigated why Muslims are apparently reaching an age group in Western societies that Christians are not.

From the testimonies and interviews, it became evident that there are at least five reasons why Westerners choose Islam over Christianity and other religious alternatives. The first is simplicity; the precepts and requirements of Islam are perceived as being much less complicated than those of Christianity. A sincere proclamation of the shahada ("There is no God but Allah and Muhammad is his Messenger") is all that is required to become a Muslim. Afterwards one must participate in the daily prayers, the Fast of Ramadan, the pilgrimage to Mecca, and almsgiving, but these are not complicated actions and require no engagement in theological or philosophical speculation.

The second factor is rationality. Islam is considered to be a supremely rational faith. The Muslim is not asked to give credence to allegedly "irrational" concepts such as the Trinity, the Incarnation, and the Resurrection of Jesus. Islam presents itself as the natural religion, the faith that one would naturally follow if it were not for the corrupting influences of the Devil and the idolatrous religious systems in which many persons are raised.

Equality is the third factor. The universal brotherhood and equality of all Muslims is a cardinal tenet of Islam, and this is apparently very attractive to Westerners. Muslims take pride in the ceremony connected with their pilgrimage, in which members of every race, class, and ethnic group stand side by side, identically clothed, all worshiping together the One God, Allah.

Fourth, Islam is practical. It is considered a this—worldly religion in contrast to Christianity, which is perceived as abstract in the extreme. Muhammad left his followers a political, social, moral, and economic program founded on religious precepts. Jesus, however, is said to have advocated no such program; it is claimed that the New Testament is so preoccupied with his imminent return that it is impractical for modern life.

Finally, Islam lacks a priesthood. The absence of a spiritual "hierarchy" has attracted many Westerners who have rejected the idea of anyone negotiating with God for them or who have been disappointed and embittered by the scandalous conduct of some Christian leaders.

This study and following article were of course aimed at trying to discover how Christianity can stop these reversions. I guess giving up the Trinity, Original Sin, intermediaries to God, and the divinity of Jesus would help.

In the authors own words:

"But this is not a thesis intended for classroom discussions; it is one that needs to be experimented with and implemented. The church needs groups of believers who will devote themselves to the over-25 age group and "field test" various approaches.

There is an element of haste involved, for the average age of America's population grows older with each year, and the kinds of people evangelicals encounter will be increasingly like my friend Jim. If the church wishes to retain its foothold in this country, the time to begin a shift in evangelistic strategy is now."



Edited by Mishmish
It is only with the heart that one can see clearly, what is essential is invisible to the eye. (The Little Prince)
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AbRah2006
 
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Quote AbRah2006 Replybullet Posted: 01 June 2006 at 1:01am

Dear Mishmish,

Assalamulikum to you and your family.

Thank you very much for the article Islam's older converts
above . It is a good article.

God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)
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amah
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Quote amah Replybullet Posted: 01 June 2006 at 7:11am
Wonderful article Mishmish!
Allah is Sufficient as a Walee (Protector) and Allah is Sufficient as a Naseer (Helper).
(Surah An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #45)
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Quote fredifreeloader Replybullet Posted: 01 June 2006 at 8:12am
abrah - so having failed to answer my point on the cross/tree issue, and having repeated yourself (as you so often do) by claiming im like a ship without a rudder going round in circles, you now applaud yourself like this - first time ive ever seen somone applaud themselves in a forum, how sad
for i am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth - romans 1: 16
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Quote George Replybullet Posted: 01 June 2006 at 8:47am
Originally posted by AbRah2006

AnnieTwo said : I don't remember one allegation you made against Christianity where you used facts.  What I do remember is that you don't accept any answer but your own.

My response: I am using your own Bible to refute your own wild allegations and now you are saying that the Bible doesn't contain facts! Let me quote your own word....AnnieTwo said : I don't remember one allegation you made against Christianity where you used facts.

Lol...........Is the Bible a fiction to you?  I think so.

I've been reading your allegations.  They are simply allegations and nothing else.  They show that you do not have a command of interpretation.  It also shows that you cut and paste these allegations without looking into them yourself.

Peace

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Quote AbRah2006 Replybullet Posted: 01 June 2006 at 11:03am

Originally posted by fredifreeloader

abrah - so having failed to answer my point on the cross/tree issue, and having repeated yourself (as you so often do) by claiming im like a ship without a rudder going round in circles, you now applaud yourself like this - first time ive ever seen somone applaud themselves in a forum, how sad

My response: I have effectively refuted you in the argument****

The same answer of mine for the same question of yours:

My response: Hey Reedoloader....Can't you differentiate a tree from a cross? If it was a cross why did the writers of  Acts write it as a tree? And why did the writers of the Gospels write it as a cross if it was a tree? Were the writers blind that they could not differentiate a tree from a cross? Are you blind too? Why don't you call a cross a tree and vice versa in your daily life? Why?

The Bible contradicts itself by saying:(a) Acts 5:30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree. Acts 10:39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree.

(b)Mark 15:32 Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.

(c)Matthew 27:41 Likewise also the chief priests mocking him, with the scribes and elders, said,
Matthew27:42 He saved others; himself he cannot save. If he be the King of Israel, let him now come down from the cross, and we will believe him.

Hey Fredi.... I wonder what kind of cross that can grow up consuming fertilisers etc and doing photosynthetic process.

 



Edited by amah
God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)
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Quote Andalus Replybullet Posted: 01 June 2006 at 8:32pm

Originally posted by AnnieTwo

Originally posted by fredifreeloader

abrah - you couldnt debate your own shadow.  just who is this ali sina bloke?


Hello my friend Fredifeeloader,

Ali Sina is very famous. 

"Infamous" would be a more accurate word. He is infamous for his trashy site and distasteful polemics.

Originally posted by Annie2

He is an ex-Muslim and started his own website at FaithFreedom to express his views on Islam which aren't pretty, but I haven't read much of what he writes.

This is his claim. A great deal of his "juvenile" polemics would say that his claim is doubtful, or at least suspect, or perhaps he could have been a Muslim and not understood very much abut his own faith. His bad polemics are evidence that his "ex-Muslimhood" should be questioned. 

Originally posted by Annie2

  I think he is an atheist now and doesn't believe in any religion because of his experiences with Islam. 

 

What a shame. He will give athiests a very bad name. I know some very well mannered and intelligent athiests.

 

Originally posted by Annie2

 Muslims are not fond of him.  That's all I know about him.  From what little I know about Sina, AbRah could not win a debate with him under any circumstances. 

 

It would not matter if someone won a debate with him. He is a vulgar, distasteful lout, who would not debate for the sake of truth. He has been shown for being scrupulous by Nader in the past and he continues with the same billigerent tirades. He gives sophists a bad name.  

Originally posted by Annie2


There are a lot of ex-Muslims out there that are vehemently against Islam, but a lot of them consider the Muslims a part of their "family" and care about them very, very much as all Christians should.

Annie

I would say there are many who make the claim of being an "ex-Muslim", and I have read the arguments of the biggest "examples" held up by detractors of Islam, and I have yet to find any argument that convinces me 1) that they were actually Muslims and 2) that they have some information that is detrimental to my faith 3) that has any outcome on my faith

Peace

A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah
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Quote BMZ Replybullet Posted: 02 June 2006 at 2:00am

Andalus,

 You said it well. Nobody even knows their real names and identities. I have yet to see one real "ex-Muslim" in my own life.

BR & Salaams

BMZ

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