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Islamic INTRAfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Islamic INTRAfaith Dialogue
Message Icon Topic: Religious Evolution Post Reply Post New Topic
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Mishmish
 
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Quote Mishmish Replybullet Posted: 31 May 2006 at 8:07pm

Assalamu Alaikum Brother:

These are your words:

"However I'm not saying that the love of a mother and father is the same as God we should love God more however my point here is that our sacrifice for our families and our friends and children should be for God, not the messenger."

"I never implied first that we should sacrifice for the prophet"

"I attribute nothing to Allah that He has not stated in His Word. I do not believe that the love I feel for another person, the Prophet, or for Allah is the same emotion that Allah(SWT) feels. How could I even have any idea of what Allah(SWT) feels other than what He has stated in the Quran? Nor did I write anything even close to this in my post.

Also sister you did attribute something to Allah by definition for you said:

But the love we feel for Allah(SWT) should go beyond any love that we feel for any human."

But this is what Allah asks of us. I DID NOT attribute anything to Allah(SWT) that he did not state in His Word.

"Any words such as saying "we love" allah are inadequate any words in my opinion."

How can you judge something as inadequate when Allah(SWT) has asked us for this, our love? Do you know better than Allah(SWT)?

 

 

It is only with the heart that one can see clearly, what is essential is invisible to the eye. (The Little Prince)
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Israfil
 
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Quote Israfil Replybullet Posted: 31 May 2006 at 8:26pm

Sister these are your words:

"I never implied first that we should sacrifice for the prophet"

And again I never said that you said that we should sacrifice for the prophet I was merely commenting on this part of the Hadith.

But this is what Allah asks of us. I DID NOT attribute anything to Allah(SWT) that he did not state in His Word

Ok so you're going by Allah's word which I agree but what I'm saying in your attempt to make an example of whom to love more in degrees I was saying your attempt alone defines the state of love we have for specific entities see your bold paragraph.

How can you judge something as inadequate when Allah(SWT) has asked us for this, our love? Do you know better than Allah(SWT)?

Sister philosophically speaking as was mentioned earlier God is simply using the temporal words of mankind to relate to us in our language so that we may know him--partially. Although what our emotions feel for God I still say they are inadaquate in essence only not when we speak of them. They are inadequequate in my opinion because God being beyond all things physically comprehensible including words no words can accurately or even poetically describe him. This was my point. As you mentioned earlier that our intentions, not words matter. To say "I love Allah" as words themselves are inadequate expressions in the sense of their definitive term because our emotions towards Allah are nothing more than what we may share here on Earth if asked, we would say that we love God more.

I know pryayer is good communication to the divine and I understand that prayer is also means of uniformity with the believers. I cannot say that prayer is inadequate as prayer like any other communicative form is means to spiritually connect with God. Now Sister Mishmish common sense would tell you that it doesn't take  a religious doctrine i.e Qur'an for God to tell you "To love me" you just know that you loved God more than anything else. So by you saying that you're going by what God says proves difficult to me that you would just find out that God told you to love him when you converted to Islam. Come on you knew this before convertin to Islam so I highly doubt the Qur'an would teach you that aspect at least however if I'm wrong then I'm wrong.

Without direct religious infleunce as a young child I was taught God was greater than me. I was taught that we should love God because God made the univere and all things aesthetically wonderful. Religious schools that I went to only enhanced this. Islam basically is the same way. We are not taught by doctrine to love God but our religious environments teaches us. So consequently by this example I can furthermore say that in coming to Islam and learning it, it is easy to conclude that we should have love for the prophet, but that love should never superceed what we have for God. We should not build mosques with the prophet's name on equal footing as God's. We should never invoke Muhammad's (or call upon saints as our intercessors) influence on our lives rather call upon the Creator of the universe. This is my point....

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Mishmish
 
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Quote Mishmish Replybullet Posted: 31 May 2006 at 9:01pm

No Brother, these are your words...

"I never implied first that we should sacrifice for the prophet"

It is only with the heart that one can see clearly, what is essential is invisible to the eye. (The Little Prince)
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AbRah2006
 
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Quote AbRah2006 Replybullet Posted: 04 June 2006 at 5:43am
The love for Allah subhanahu wa ta`ala and Ar-Rasool sallallahu `alayhi wa sallam should override any other love.

Allah subhanahu wa ta`ala said:

"Say: If your fathers, your sons, your brothers, your wives, your kindred, the wealth that you have gained, the commerce in which you fear a decline, and the dwellings in which you delight are dearer to you than Allah and His Messenger, and striving hard and Fighting in His Cause; then wait until Allah brings about His Decision (torment). And Allah guides not the rebellious folk."

Quran Soorah At-Tawbah 9:24

Thus, the essence of love should be due to Allah and His Messenger, so too with the obedience. For the obedience is due to Allah `azza wa jal and His Messenger, and pleasing is due to Allah and His Messenger,

"But it is more fitting that they should please Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad sallallahu `alayhi wa sallam) if they are (true) believers."

Quran Soorah At-Tawbah 9:62

God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)
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Israfil
 
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Quote Israfil Replybullet Posted: 04 June 2006 at 2:08pm

My pleasure should be for God and God only...

If one does kindness and sacrifices in the name of two etities then reverence of both are split. I do not believe in revering the prophet more than a human when God has commanded that worship and reverences solely belongs to him.

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