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Islamic INTRAfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Islamic INTRAfaith Dialogue
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Israfil
 
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Quote Israfil Replybullet Topic: Religious Evolution
    Posted: 28 May 2006 at 10:53am

Salaam,

It is not only the unfortunate realization, but tragedy that after every prophet abd after every message there is the eventual deviation of that message. Hisortically if we all research since the prophet's time the Muslim community has in fact deviated. We divide ourselves into various sects and make this more ocplex by associuating them with various  "schools of thought."

Like Catholicism we have hierarchal classes where we make distinctions which elevate scholars as "divine leaders." We elevate the prophet himself on equal footing as God. In my humble opinion (which is solely my opinion) as a community we have historically, truly deviated from Islamic teachings. I include myself in this category because as a community I am as good as the "next man" and what one does is a reflection on all of us, unfortunate, but true just look at the media.

This evident truth perhaps started with the death of the prophet and the confusion on who would lead the Muslim community. Not long afterwards various individuals who considered themselves "successors of the prophet" even some claiming to be prophets themselves soon emerge.

Not long after that "schools of thought emerged" each having similar philosophies yet "essential" differences that distinguished them fom each other. Scholars emerged interpreting text in accordance to their knowledge. People sought them out for guidance and some scholars later interpret even the wrong things in order to gain popularity.

Not much different than the Spanish Inquisition........

There have been attempts by minorities within the Muslim community that have made several attempts to change. However in my belief how the pagans thought then when the prophet brought them God's revelation are how some take change. People do not like change. I find that ignorance is a comfort to some because they may feel what they learned or what is taught is the right way, even if you clearly show valid proofs that its not.

Frankly, I don't like where our community is going, especially in matters of interpreting text. Some use interpretations to justify Honor Killings. Some use it to justify racism, or sexism or even physical abuse. I find the Hadith quote "Love the prophet more than you love yourself" a contradiction to the Islamic belief in Loving God with all your being.

If the prophet is only a message and only as good as what God makes him, why must we love the prophet on equal footing as God when God has no equals in the first place? A product of our deviation? Sure. This is evident when angry mobs of people burn down flags and call for the murder on individuals who are ignorant, but are innocent nonetheless.

We get furious when the prophet is slandered. We get angry when people draw cartoons or the prophet or individuals who slander him. We show too much for a man who God had blessed at infancy but who was just like you and I. Muhammad is just a messenger. God has no equal and no true believer should revered the prophet in the sense one would reveres God.

 

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-ArabianKnight-
 
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Quote -ArabianKnight- Replybullet Posted: 28 May 2006 at 12:05pm

And you're just realizing this?

If men were angles.. there would be no need of governemnt or rules..

a similar saying is Found in the Qur'an and The Federalist Papers... Its a natural course of any organization to eventually splinter and deviat into sects and subsects, It is inevitiable. People will do What THEY WANT TO DO, and justify it as best as they could. Its called Human Nature... and humans are 90% of the time, self-interested...

If a man wants to beat his wife - He can find justification for it... but it doesnt mean he will get away with it in common society. But he really wants to put her in her place...  so he creates a wife-beating club on a boat in international waters... and there you go.. a sect is born. How many adherants to this sect... well.. i dont know, but I doubt there would be many willing women there. Unless they are masochists... haha



Edited by -ArabianKnight-
THere Is no god, BUT GOD
and Adam was his First Messenger
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Israfil
 
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Quote Israfil Replybullet Posted: 28 May 2006 at 1:42pm

ArabianKnight,

You are perhaps right and I didn't just realize this today I have always believed this but for fairness of others I didn't really think of commenting on it. I agree it's human nature to make err and to be "self-interested" and to imagine things you want to see.

What I'm commenting on is the tragedy that this is an acceptable trait in our society. I remember driving past a mosque one time here in Souther Cali (the area I was in is considered the "O.C" or Orange Count) and I saw the prophet's name alongside the name of God.

I don't care what sect you follow if you truly follow God why would you even elevate the name of the prophet on the same plane as God? There are countless times Muhammad is referred to as "Abdullah" or Servant (or slave) of Allah. Why do we elevate the slave of Allah on equal footing as Allah himself? Regardless whether he is the best example it is a definite error to symbolically do such a thing.

 

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Quote Apex Replybullet Posted: 28 May 2006 at 2:09pm
Israfil I agree with what you say here....Even after the Dynasty of Ankhanaton his empire chnge when people digressed from their monotheistic beliefs to their pagan beliefs. After Jesus' passing many of his followers divided themselves. So yes like ArabianKnight said its human nature.
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peacemaker
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Quote peacemaker Replybullet Posted: 28 May 2006 at 3:03pm

Assalamu Alaikum!

Brother Israfil: "Love the prophet more than you love yourself" a contradiction to the Islamic belief in Loving God with all your being."

It is not contradiction. It means that you love Prophet ( SAW ) more than you love yourself. Of course, you love Allah more than you love Prophet ( SAW ). Allah is Supreme, and noone can be even compared to His authority.

Peace

Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?
Qur'an 55:13
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Israfil
 
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Quote Israfil Replybullet Posted: 30 May 2006 at 8:30am

>>>>It is not contradiction. It means that you love Prophet ( SAW ) more than you love yourself. Of course, you love Allah more than you love Prophet ( SAW ). Allah is Supreme, and noone can be even compared to His authority.<<<<

Brother Peacemaker the emotional state of love cannot be split equally, or at least as humans we don't love the same. With that said, if I love God more than my being and I say the same about the prophet, aren't we loving two entities on the same footing? Honestly, it's not possible seeing how God is greater than the prophet. For instance for serveral reasons I can note how I love my mother more than my father. Even if I were raised in a two parent household my love would be greater for the other parent, depending on who I bond with more. This is actully proven in child psychology. In essence it would be a contradiction. Given the nature of who God is, it should be like that. also given several verses in the Qur'an noting the prophet's nature and God we shouldn't love the prophet and God on equal footing. 

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Quote amah Replybullet Posted: 30 May 2006 at 9:06am
Assalaamualaikum,

There is no contradiction here.

Every human being loves himself. But he should love the Prophet (saw) more than himself. And he should love Allah more than Prophet(saw). Simple.

Allah is Sufficient as a Walee (Protector) and Allah is Sufficient as a Naseer (Helper).
(Surah An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #45)
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Israfil
 
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Quote Israfil Replybullet Posted: 30 May 2006 at 10:16am

Amah,

If I told you I love God more than I love myself and I said I love the prophet more than myself? That is something set on equal footing, thus a contradiction. The Hadith does not imply in that sequence you just wrote. I'm mainly commenting on that Hadith reference not the sequence you present.

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