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Interfaith Dialogue
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AnnieTwo
 
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Quote AnnieTwo Replybullet Posted: 02 June 2006 at 5:54am

George said:

AbRah,

You are a perfect example of a Muslim who degrades Christianity and Christians.  Anyone reading your posts could see that.  Using Osama Abdullah's sites is a good example.  I just read your post where you call Jesus a hypocrite.

My response: Jesus of Islam is not the same as the Jesus in the Bible.

In Islam Jesus is a great prophet of God for he is a righteous man who calls the Jews to worship Allah the One and Only. Jesus is neither God nor the son of God for Jesus is a servant of Allah.

Jesus is a great prophet.  The Jews already worshipped one God.  Jesus is the Son of God.  Jesus was a servant to the Father while on earth.

In Christianity Christians worship Jesus as their God and at the same time they claim that Jesus is the son of God...What a silly statement!

Christians worship only one God and that one God manifested Himself in Jesus.  The Father and Son are of the same substance and that is why Jesus could say that when we look at him we see the Father.

How could Jesus be the father and the son of himself at the same time?

Jesus is not the Father.

How could Jesus say that God was in heaven when he himself was in the world with his followers?

Because Jesus is not the Father.  Do you not believe that God is omnipresent?  How can God be everywhere at the same time?

How could Jesus be God when Jesus himself said that God was greater than him?

Because the Father is higher in office.  The Father gives the commands and the Son carries them out, but they are of the same substance.

How could Jesus be God when he himself says that he was powerless and he depended on God's help and permission?

Because the Father is higher in office and gives commands to the Son and he carries them out.

How could Jesus be the son of God when the Bible itself declares that Jesus is the son of man throughout the NT?

Jesus is the Son of God and the Son of Man.  The Son of Man is a divine figure.

In the NT Jesus is a servant of God but the Christians insist that Jesus is God ..

Christians say that Jesus is the incarnate Word of the One God.

How can a servant be a master of his master?

The Father is higher in office.  The Father issues the commands and the Son carries them out, but they are of the same substance.

How could Jesus say, "whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire" (Matthew 5:22).  Yet, he himself did so repeatedly, as Matthew 23:17-19 and Luke 11:40 & 12:20 show.  Clearly Jesus should be in danger of hell too?

Jesus said, "whoever says [to his brother], "you fool! shall be in danger of hell fire"  (Matthew 5:22).  Yet He Himself said to the scribes and Pharisees, "Fools and blind!" (Matthew 23:17).

There are good reasons why there is a strong difference between the two uses of the term "fool."  First, this is another example of the principle that the same word can be used with different meanings in different contexts.  For instance, the word "dog" can be used of a canine animal or a detested person.

Second, in Matthew 5, it is used in the context of someone who is "angry" with his brother, indicating a hatred.  Jesus harbored no hatred toward those to whom he applied the term.  So, his use of the term "fool" does not violate Jesus' prohibition against calling others a fool.

Third, technically speaking, Jesus only commanded that a "brother" not be called a "fool," not an unbeliever.  In fact, the scriptural description of a fool is one who "has said in his heart, "There is no God."  See Psalm 14:1.  In view of this, you can see the seriousness of calling a brother a fool; it is tantamount to calling him an unbeliever.  So, when He who "knew what was in man" (cf. John 2:25) called unbelievers "fools," it was a most appropriate description of what they really were.

How could Jesus say in John 14:13-14  "And whatsoever ye ask in my name I do, that the Father may be glorified in the son.  If ye ask any thing in my name, I will do it."  In reality, millions of people have made millions of requests in Jesus’ name and failed to receive satisfaction.  This promise or prophecy has failed completely.

<>"Whatsoever you ask the Father in My name He will give you."  He most assuredly does, but we still do not have a carte blanche. To ask God for anything in the name of Jesus Christ, it must be in keeping with what He is. To ask in Christ's name is to ask as though Christ Himself were asking. Therefore, we can only ask for what Christ Himself would ask. It is therefore necessary to set aside our own will and accept God's. Jesus says in John 8:29 "And He who sent Me is with Me. The Father has not left Me alone, for I always do those things that please Him." If we do as Jesus did, we are sure to receive answers as He did. He adds in John 11:41-42, "Father, I thank you that You have heard Me. And I know that You always hear Me." 

We must come away with the realization that prayer is not dictating to God, but a humble and heartfelt expression of our attitude of dependency and need. Because of this, the one who truly prays is submissive to God's will, content with Him supplying his need according to the dictates of His sovereign pleasure. The result of this, combined with the infusion of God's attitudes and thoughts as we draw near to Him, will work to create us in His image.

<>Frequently, the prevailing idea of many is that we come to God and ask Him for something we want, expecting Him to give it if we have enough faith. But this is actually degrading to God! This popular belief reduces God to a servant—our servant, like a genie in a bottle—performing our pleasures and granting our desires.  Prayer is worshipfully coming to Him, humbly acknowledging His sovereign authority and loving wisdom, telling Him our need, committing our way to Him, and then patiently allowing Him to deal with our request as it seems best to Him. This does not mean we should not confidently present our needs to God as we see them, but then we should leave it with Him to deal with in His time and manner. Remember, He already knows what He wants to accomplish and when. 

Annie

14If you are reproached for the name of Christ, blessed are you, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests upon you. On their part He is blasphemed, but on your part He is glorified. 1 Peter 4

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Quote AbRah2006 Replybullet Posted: 02 June 2006 at 8:55am

I have been following you AnnieTwo  since you first came here and I find that it is you who like to slander  Islam by making false allegations against Islam...You and Fred behave the same way. Can you please name your sources that you quote to degrade Islam? I want to know the anti-Islam websites that you quote to degrade Quran.

[/QUOTE]

Originally posted by AnnieTwo

Where have I slandered Islam?

 

Have you forgotten what you have done? Here are your quotes: http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4968& ; ; ;PN=1&TPN=6

And I have been a Christian for many years and I see no contradictions in the Bible.  I chose Christianity and I did not chose it blindly.  And I am not an idiot either.   Now that we have that settled...

My point Mishmish is that the Christians have answers for what non-Christians see as contradictions in the Bible and Muslims have answers for what non-Muslims see as contradictions in the Qur'an.

I am a little dismayed that you as a Moderator would let the kind of posts posted by AbRah continue.  We must learn to ask questions of each other and making a big long list of "contradictions" along with rather insulting remarks is not the way to go.  These kinds of posts will not improve the relationship between Muslims and Christians and Jews.

You can google:  Contradictions in the Qur'an and come up with lists; the same way you can for the Bible.  If you haven't seen any of them, here are just a few that some say are contradictions in the Qur'an:

Which one was created first? As you will see in the verses below, Allah at one time says that Earth was created first and another time he says that the Heavens were created first.

·         Quran-2:29: It is He who hath created for you all things that are on Earth; THEN He turned to the Heavens and made them into seven firmaments (Skies)….

·         Quran- 79:27-30: Are you the harder to create, or is the heaven that He built ? He raised the height thereof and ordered it; and He has made dark the night thereof, and He brought forth the morning thereof. And after that, He spread (flattened) the earth

Now, does it match modern science ? Do you believe that, Earth was created first, and after that, God created Heaven ? Does modern science tell us that ? Or that there are SEVEN firmaments (layers)? Modern science tells us that, actually there is no such thing as a firmament or any roof over us, it is only a space with no known boundary at all. These verses simply reinforce the ancient idea of a ROOF over us which is called the SKY! How funny!

Sun-set and Sun-rise

The Quran teaches us that the Sun sets in a muddy spring:

·         Quran-18:86: Till, when he (the traveler Zul-qarnain) reached the setting-place of the Sun, he found it going down into a muddy spring…

·         Quran- 18:90: Till, when he reached the rising-place of the Sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had appointed no shelter from it.

There are serious scientific errors here. Firstly, it is a scientifically accepted fact that the Sun never goes down into a muddy spring.  Secondly, this seems to presuppose a FLAT Earth, otherwise how can there be an extreme point in the West or in the East? A sunrise there would be basically just the same as at any other place on this earth, at land or sea. It would still look as if it is setting “far away.”  It does say, that he reached THE PLACE where the Sun sets and in his second journey THE PLACE where it rises.

A Resting Place for the Sun?

·         Quran-36:38: And the Sun runneth on unto a resting place for him. That is the measuring of the Mighty, the Wise.

·         Quran-36:39: And for the moon, We have appointed mansions till she return like an old shriveled palm leaf.

·         Quran-36:40: It is not for Sun to overtake the moon, nor doth the night outstrip the day. They float each in an orbit.

Allah is indeed a great scientist. Where are the Sun and the moon situated?  Can anybody tell me how they could collide/meet/overtake each other ? Are the Sun and moon neighbors to each other?  I have the answer for this error: Ancient Allah saw (through observations with the naked eye) the Sun and moon travelling from east to west seemingly in the same part of the sky and on the same path. Yet they did not collide and continued to cause day and night, etc.  Allah could hardly imagine that all these phenomena are simply due to Earth’s rotation and NOT by the Sun’s rotation.  The Sun is stationary for Earth, because the Earth is stuck in the Sun’s Gravity, just as we are stuck in the Earth’ gravity. Allah never says anywhere in the whole Quran THAT THE EARTH ROTATES. Perhaps Allah could not feel Earth’s rotation.

 A Resting Place for the Sun WAS CONFIRMED BY HADITHS (?)

·         Sahih Bukhari Hadiths: Abzur Ghifari (ra) narrated: one day Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) asked me, “Abzar do you know after setting where does the Sun go?” I replied, I do not know, only Allah’s apostle could say better. Then the Prophet (SA) replied, “After setting, the Sun remains prostrated under Allah’s Aro’sh and waits for Allah’s command for rising again in the East. Day will come when sun will not get permission to rise again and Qeyamot will fall upon earth”.

Can anybody tell me what it is?  It was the superstitious belief of ancient people reflected in the Quran and Hadiths by Allah. A 10-year-old boy would not tell such a fairy-tale today.

 Why Allah created Stars: 

·         Quran gives us further scientific knowledge by telling us that the stars were created by Allah as missiles to throw at the devils:

·         Quran-67:5: And We have (from of old) adorned the lowest heaven (sky) with lamps, and We have made such (Lamps as) missiles to drive away Satans…

·         Quran-37:6-8: We have indeed decorated the lower heaven (sky) with beauty (in) the stars, (for beauty) and for guard against all obstinate rebellious Satans. So they should not strain their ears in the direction of the Exalted Assembly but be cast away from every side.

Thus, the stars are nothing but missiles to throw at devils so that they may not eavesdrop on the heavenly council. Once again we find how Allah was high on his superstitious weirdness.

 Sky/Heaven is Nothing but A ROOF or Canopy over the Earth:

·         Quran-21: 32: And We have made the sky a roof withheld (from them). Yet they turn away from its portents.

·         Quran-31:10: He hath created the heavens (Skies) without supports (pillars) that ye can see, and hath cast into the earth firm Mountains/Hills, so that it quake not with you; and He hath dispersed…

·         Quran-21: 32: And We have made the sky ( heavens ) as roof (canopy) well guarded…

·         Quran-2: 22: Who has made the earth your couch, And the heavens (Sky) your canopy

 Modern science tells us- the Earth is entirely surrounded by space and there is no boundary even if we go billions of trillions of miles in any direction. The question is: If there is no sky above us then how in the world does the question of pillars come in?  Do we really have a roof above us?  Is there a canopy (Shamiaa’na) above the earth? In most Bengali translations of the Quran all Maulanas write: Allah akashke samiaana bannei-ese. 

The Quran  claims Allah gives rain from above! Ordinary People consider Allah as residing  in the sky above the earth. But in cosmological science there is no up or down, that is, earth revolves and there is no fixed above or below for the earth. Every direction in outer space can be up or down. Are mountains there to prevent the earth from shaking? Give me a break!

Once again Allah considered the sky as a roof over the earth which will break/be shattered during Doomsday

·         Quran-78::19: And the heavens (sky) Shall be broken (opened) as if there were doors opens…

·         Quran-82:01: When the Sky is cleft asunder

·         Quran-69:16: And the sky will be Rent asunder, for it will that day be flimsy(soft)

·         Quran-81: 2: When the stars fall, losing their luster.

Yousuf Ali comments in his Tafsir: The beautiful blue sky overhead (which we take for granted in sunshine) will be shattered to pieces. Modern science tells us that there is no such thing as a roof, sky or any canopy over the earth, rather all around the Earth is limitless space.  Only Allah knows what will break/get shattered or will get soft/flimsy or how doors will open - there are no walls, so where will doors come from?  In some Ayats Allah threatened kafirs by saying: “I (Allah) will throw broken pieces of sky over your head.”

 Sun and Moon Rotates:

·         Quran-31: 29: Seest thou not that Allah merges Night into Day and He merges Day into Night; That He has subjected the Sun and moon (to His law), each running its course for a term (time) appointed.

·         Quran-21: 33: It is He who created the Night and Day, And the Sun and Moon; each of them swim (float) along in its own course.

Ayats mentioned above could be found over and over again and again in almost every page of the Quran.  This is because Allah, standing in the open Arab desert, saw very well that every morning the SUN was rising from the east and gradually (at the appointed time) setting to the west, and as a result, day and night follow.  Allah actually shared this misconception (the Sun moving) of pre-historic people. Every time Allah speaks of the Sun & Moon, he referred to Day & Night, as if it is due to the Sun’s movement that day and night follows.  But surprisingly, all the hypocritical Mullahs give false credit to Allah by saying: Look, the Quran described the Sun’s movement 1400 years ago, which modern science only found out now.  In the real world, the Sun takes 225 million years to make just one complete circle through the galaxy.  And obviously this movement of the Sun has nothing to do with DAY & NIGHT of the earth.  Actually, the Sun is stationary for the earth in a real sense, because the Earth is stuck in the giant gravitational force of the Sun.  The Earth also moves along with the Sun wherever it goes, just the way that we are stuck to the Earth’s gravitational force and do not feel Earth’s movement at all. Why then, was Allah referring to the Sun’s movement again and again?  I have already mentioned above, why Allah was mistaken about the Sun’s movements.  Now dishonest Mullahs are claiming that this is science here. I wonder why Allah has to mention about the Sun’s 225 million year journey to tell about day and night?   What does the Sun’s movement have to do with the day and night?

Earth is Spread Out Like a Carpet (Flat)

·         Quran-15:19: And the earth We have spread out (like a carpet); set thereon mountains firm and immovable;

·         Quran-78: 6-7: Have We not made the earth as a wide expanse, And the mountains as pegs (anchor)?

 Allah was sure that the Earth is flat like a carpet and that mountains are there to anchor the earth so that the Earth does not shake with us. Allah is really an excellent scientist.

 Here in this Verse, Allah Challenges People: Who Can Tell Whether the Conceived is Male or Female?

·         Quran-31:34: Verily the knowledge of the Hour is With God (alone). It is He Who sends down rain, and He who knows what is in the wombs of mothers….

 Who does not believe the fact that, actually mankind can predict very accurately (99.5%) when rain will fall and can predict (99.8%) the sex of the child inside a mother’s womb?   Scientists also predict that, in the next five years weather predictions will be successfully correct almost 100%. Perhaps Allah could not imagine this.

Man is Created From Clotted blood?

·         Quran-23:14: Then fashioned We the drop (semen) a CLOT OF CONGEALED BLOOD then fashioned We the clot a little lump (fetus), fashioned We the little lump into bones, then clothed the bones with flesh, and then produced it another creation. So blessed be Allah, the Best of Creators.

(Bengali translations of the Quran read: “Zamaa’t Raokto theeke Manoosh banieesi” And this Ayat has been repeated again and again throughout the Quran)

·         Quran-75:38: Then he becomes a CLOT; then (Allah) shaped and fashioned…

·         Quran-96:2: Created man, out of a mere clot of congealed blood

There are serious scientific problems here:

A blood clot can not grow into anything.  This idea came from the Greeks.  Aristotle erroneously believed that humans are originated from the action of male semen upon female menstrual blood, which is absolutely an incorrect assumption. The Quran’s assertion on the clot (alaqa) is completely wrong about human development, since there is absolutely no stage during which the embryo consists of a clot. The only situation in which an embryo might appear like a clot is during a miscarriage, in which case the clotted blood which is seen to emerge (much of which comes from the mother) is solidified and by definition no longer alive. Therefore, if ever an embryo appeared to look like a clot it would never develop any further into a human; it would be a dead mass of bloody miscarriage. Since Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) had some thirteen wives it is entirely possible that he would be very familiar with miscarriages.

Modern science tells us that the formation of human embryo is a seamless continuation from conception to birth, hence there are no hard-and-fast boundaries of stages as the Quran described.  The Quran described 4 stages which matches exactly with Galenic description of the development of the human embryo (which was proved wrong by modern science).

 Creation of bones and clothing of bones with flesh: According to modern embryologists including Prof. ___Moore of Canada____, the tissue from which bone originates, known as mesoderm, is the same tissue as that from which muscle (flesh) develops. Thus bone and muscles begin to develop simultaneously, rather than sequentially (as the Quran tells us). Moreover, most of the muscle tissue that we human have is laid down before birth, but bones continue to develop and calcify (strengthen with calcium) right into one’s teenage years.   So it would be more accurate if the Quran had said that muscles started to develop at the same time as bones, but completed their development earlier. The idea that bones are clothed with flesh is not only scientifically completely wrong/false, but was directly copied from the ancient Greek doctor Galen’s hypothesis.

Also, the idea of saying: “made into bones and clothed the bones with muscle” came from the technique of making animal statues (Moorthy) out of rod and cement or mud. People usually make the skeleton (out of rod or stick) first and, then cover it up with cement or mud. This is scarcely a scientific description of embryonic development. It is rather a description of a layman.

 Which one is correct?

·         Quran-2:256: There is no Compulsion in religion…. 

                   OR

·         Quran-9:29: Fight those who do not profess the true faith (Islam) till they pay the polltax (jiziya) with the hand of humility.

·         Quran-9:5: Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them and take them captive, and besiege them and prepare for them each ambush….

·         Quran-47:4: When you meet the unbelievers in the Jihad strike off their heads….

·         Quran-2:191: And slay (kill) them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out such is the reward of those who suppress faith.

·         Quran-8: 65: O Apostle! Rouse the believers to the fight…(against) unbelievers.

Very often apologetics claim that, Islam is a religion of peace and there is no compulsion. Yet, punishment of an apostate in Islam is, of course, death penalty.

In Many Ayats Allah Claimed That, He Has Given the Quran in Easy and Clear Language so that, it will not be difficult to understand by ordinary Arabs.

 Â·         Quran-44:58: Verily, We have made This Quran easy in the tongue, in order that they may give heed.

No matter which translation of the Quran we read, the Quranic materials remain the same to us and every sentence is self-explanatory.  It does not take a rocket scientist to comprehend the message Allah wanted to transmit for Arabs. Yet, bigoted Mullahs will always blame translators for Quranic contradictions/errors/inconsistencies etc. and will try to find lame excuses to cover up Allah’s ignorance.

Comments:

The Holy Quran is full of inaccuracies, contradictions, inconsistencies, redundancies, a lack of chronologies or chapters, grammatical errors etc.  One can find hundreds of contradictions/errors/inconsistencies in the Holy Quran and the above mentioned ayats are just selected samples from the Quran.

Mishmish, I edited out a sentence that I thought unacceptable for this site.  I am sure that the Muslims have answers to all of these "contradictions."

As I pointed out, the Christians have answers too.

Annie

 

All of your quotes were effectively refuted by Mishmish! Now I dare you to name the sources of your quotes!



Edited by AbRah2006
God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)
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Quote AnnieTwo Replybullet Posted: 02 June 2006 at 9:03am
AbRah2006,

That was no slander to Islam.  Mishmish asked for what are considered contradictions in the Qur'an and I googled and picked the first organized list I came across.  In fact I had to edit some offending words from the article.

All of your quotes were effectively refuted by Mishmish! Now I dare you to name the sources of your quotes!

They weren't mine AbRah.   Why are you having trouble with this?

Annie




14If you are reproached for the name of Christ, blessed are you, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests upon you. On their part He is blasphemed, but on your part He is glorified. 1 Peter 4

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Quote fredifreeloader Replybullet Posted: 02 June 2006 at 9:24am

I have been following you AnnieTwo  since you first came here and I find that it is you who like to slander  Islam by making false allegations against Islam...You and Fred behave the same way. Can you please name your sources that you quote to degrade Islam? I want to know the anti-Islam websites that you quote to degrade Quran.
abrah - i named sources and gave quotations  on the other thread - they were from the books of shariah law - for which of course you have no answer, as they were written by muslim scholars, not like you.  i also posted the pact of the "righteous caliph" umar, to which you have also no answer



Edited by fredifreeloader
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Quote AbRah2006 Replybullet Posted: 02 June 2006 at 9:48am
[QUOTE=AnnieTwo]

George said:

AbRah,

AnnieTwo said: You are a perfect example of a Muslim who degrades Christianity and Christians.  Anyone reading your posts could see that.  Using Osama Abdullah's sites is a good example.  I just read your post where you call Jesus a hypocrite.

My response: www.answering-Christianity.com is a good website that has efectively and effeciently refuted all the lies of Christian missionaries of anti-Islam Christian websites! I know you are very angry with Osama Abdullah because he has expose the lies of anti-Islam Christian websites that shamelessly insult, degrade, slander Islam everyday! Fredi is a good example of Christians who degrade, insult and slander Islam by repeating his wild claims against Islam eventhough we Muslims have effectively and effeciently refuted his wild claims in his thread no compulsion - the latest......

In Islam Jesus is a great prophet of Allah and he is neither God nor the son of God but your Bible slanders him by making contradictory statements against Jesus so Jesus is a hypocrite according to your Bible. Since you Christians claim that Jesus is the Word of God , contradictory statements of the Bible reflect Jesus as the Word of God.

Did Jesus and God contradict their own word?  Jesus is a righteous prophet of God so he would not contradict the Word of God so who did invent the contradictory statements of the Bible? Answer: The keepers of the Bible ! What does these contradictions mean? The Bible is corrupt:

The entire Bible is corrupted and unreliable and is mostly filled with man-made laws and corruption!  "`How can you say, "We [the Jews] are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?' (From the NIV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)"

The Revised Standard Version makes it even clearer: "How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie.  (From the RSV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)"

In either translation, we clearly see that the Jews had so much corrupted the Bible with their man-made cultural laws, that they had turned the Bible into a lie!

My response: Jesus of Islam is not the same as the Jesus in the Bible.

In Islam Jesus is a great prophet of God for he is a righteous man who calls the Jews to worship Allah the One and Only. Jesus is neither God nor the son of God for Jesus is a servant of Allah.

AnnieTwo said: Jesus is a great prophet.  The Jews already worshipped one God.  Jesus is the Son of God.  Jesus was a servant to the Father while on earth.

My response: Jesus is not the son of God for God has no sons! Moses, Jesus and Muhammad (peace and bless upon them) said that God was ONE and ONLY so God has no sons and there are no other gods beside Him!

Christians claim that what is unique in the case of Jesus, is that he is the only begotten Son of God, while the others are merely “sons of God”. However, God is recorded as saying to Prophet David, in Psalms 2:7, “I will tell the decree of the Lord: He said to me, ‘You are my son, today I have begotten you.’ ” This contradiction has invalidated the Christian claim that Jesus is the son of God. How can the Bible contradict itself if it is the Word of God? Had the God of the Bible forgotten or change His mind about the begotten sons?

             It should also be noted that nowhere in the Gospels does Jesus actually call himself “Son of God”.  Instead, he is recorded to have repeatedly called himself “Son of man” (e.g. Luke 9:22) innumerable times. And in Luke 4:41, he actually rejected being called “Son of God”: “And demons also came out of many, crying, ‘You are the Son of God!’   But he rebuked them, and would not allow them to speak, because they knew that he was the Christ.”

             Since the Hebrews believed that God is One, and had neither wife nor children in any literal sense, it is obvious that the expression “son of God” merely meant to them “Servant of God”; one who, because of his faithful service, was close and dear to God, as a son is to a father. Christians who came from a Greek or Roman background, later misused this term. In their heritage, “son of God” signified an incarnation of a god or someone born of a physical union between male and female gods. When the Church cast aside its Hebrew foundations, it adopted the pagan concept of “son of God”, which was entirely different from the Hebrew usage.        

             Consequently, the use of the term “son of God” should only be understood from the Semitic symbolic sense of a “servant of God”, and not in the pagan sense of a literal offspring of God. In the four Gospels, Jesus is recorded as saying: “Blessed are the peace-makers; they will be called sons of God.”Matthew 5:9.

             Likewise, Jesus’ use of the term abba, “dear father”, should be understood similarly. There is a dispute among New Testament scholars as to precisely what abba meant in Jesus’ time and also as to how widely it was in use by other Jewish sects of that era. 

             James Barr has recently argued forcefully that it did not have the specially intimate sense that has so often been attributed to it, but that it simply meant “father”.Journal of Theological Studies, vol. 39 and Theology, vol. 91, no. 741. To think of God as “our heavenly Father” was by no means new, for in the Lord’s prayer he is reported to have taught his disciples to address God in this same familiar way.

Students of the Bible will easily notice that the title Son of God is often used in Matthew without agreement from Mark and Luke.  For example, what did the passers-by say at the scene of the cross?  Their saying is reported in Mark 15:29-30 and also in Matthew 27:40.  If you compare the two reports, you will notice that Matthew has added a phrase to the effect that Jesus is the Son of God.

We find another example of this in Matthew 14:22-33.  Jesus had just miraculously fed five thousand people with five loaves and two fish.  Then he sent his disciples to the other side of the sea.  After praying to God, Jesus went out miraculously walking on the sea to meet his disciples.  Eventually he got into the boat with them.  How did the disciples react to all this?  Mark and Matthew give us two different answers.  Mark says:

   “And they were utterly astounded, for they did not understand about the loaves, but their hearts were hardened” (Mark 6:51-52).

In Matthew, however, the disciples were not perplexed at all.  They had it all figured out and they knew exactly what to do.  Matthew says:

   “And those in the boat worshipped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God”” (Matthew 14:33).

Again, Matthew has improved the story to show that Jesus is the Son of God.

Students of the Bible will easily notice that the title Son of God is often used in Matthew without agreement from Mark and Luke.  For example, what did the passers-by say at the scene of the cross?  Their saying is reported in Mark 15:29-30 and also in Matthew 27:40.  If you compare the two reports, you will notice that Matthew has added a phrase to the effect that Jesus is the Son of God.

We find another example of this in Matthew 14:22-33.  Jesus had just miraculously fed five thousand people with five loaves and two fish.  Then he sent his disciples to the other side of the sea.  After praying to God, Jesus went out miraculously walking on the sea to meet his disciples.  Eventually he got into the boat with them.  How did the disciples react to all this?  Mark and Matthew give us two different answers.  Mark says:

   “And they were utterly astounded, for they did not understand about the loaves, but their hearts were hardened” (Mark 6:51-52).

In Matthew, however, the disciples were not perplexed at all.  They had it all figured out and they knew exactly what to do.  Matthew says:

   “And those in the boat worshipped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God”” (Matthew 14:33).

Again, Matthew has improved the story to show that Jesus is the Son of God.

Do you see how the writers of the Gospel of Matthew corrupt the Gospel improving the story to show that Jesus is the Son of God?

Matthew, Mark, and Luke, authors of the first three Gospels, believed that Jesus was not God (see Mark 10:18 and Matthew 19:17).  They believed that he was the son of God in the sense of a righteous person.  Many others too, are similarly called sons of God (see Matthew 23:1-9). Therefore God has no sons!

A common mistake among people is their thinking of God as a super human being somewhere up in the sky.  Then they attribute all kinds of human activity and relationships to God as if He was like human beings.  Once it is clear that humans have children, such people conclude that God has children too.  But God declares this idea to be false.

God tells us in His Book that there is nothing like Him (see surah 42:11).  God also says that there is nothing comparable unto Him (112:4).  Surely, God is not a physical being.  God tells us:

   "Vision comprehends Him not, but He comprehends (all) vision” (Qur’an 6:103).

God declares that those who impute sons and daughters to Him do so falsely and without knowledge (see surah 6:100).  The Qur’an appeals to our reason by saying:

   “The Originator of the heavens and the earth!  How can He have a child when he has no consort, when He created all things and is Aware of all things?” (6:101)

This is in obvious reply to those who may claim that God has a literal son or daughter, terms which in human languages mean the offspring of a pair.

Some may say, however, that God can produce a child without having a consort.  In that case, you are not speaking of a child but a creature of God.  In any case, God declares that He begets not, nor is He begotten (surah 112:3).

Some may say that God has adopted a child.  God declares that this idea too lacks reason.  Since everyone already belongs to God, what then is the point of adopting?  God says:

   “And they say: Allah has taken unto Himself a son.  Be He glorified!  Nay, but whatsoever is in the heaven and the earth are His.  All are subservient unto Him.  The originator of the heavens and the earth!  When He decrees a thing, He says unto it only: Be! and it is” (2:116-117).

God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)
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Quote AbRah2006 Replybullet Posted: 02 June 2006 at 9:54am

Originally posted by AnnieTwo

AbRah2006,

That was no slander to Islam.  Mishmish asked for what are considered contradictions in the Qur'an and I googled and picked the first organized list I came across.  In fact I had to edit some offending words from the article.

All of your quotes were effectively refuted by Mishmish! Now I dare you to name the sources of your quotes!

They weren't mine AbRah.   Why are you having trouble with this?

Annie

I dare you to name your sources and please don't give me excuses. Please name the rabid anti-Islam Christian websites that you had quoted !  Why do you condone them? Are you afraid to name your sources? You statments have no academic value at all!



God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)
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Quote AbRah2006 Replybullet Posted: 02 June 2006 at 9:57am
Originally posted by fredifreeloader

I have been following you AnnieTwo  since you first came here and I find that it is you who like to slander  Islam by making false allegations against Islam...You and Fred behave the same way. Can you please name your sources that you quote to degrade Islam? I want to know the anti-Islam websites that you quote to degrade Quran.
abrah - i named sources and gave quotations  on the other thread - they were from the books of shariah law - for which of course you have no answer, as they were written by muslim scholars, not like you.  i also posted the pact of the "righteous caliph" umar, to which you have also no answer

Are you out of your mind? The books of Shariah Law will not slander Quran, Allah ans His messnger! I dare you to name your the rabid anti-Islam Christian websites that you had quoted to slander Islam! Why do you condone them?

God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)
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Quote AbRah2006 Replybullet Posted: 02 June 2006 at 9:59am

AnnieTwo said: You are a perfect example of a Muslim who degrades Christianity and Christians.  Anyone reading your posts could see that.  Using Osama Abdullah's sites is a good example.  I just read your post where you call Jesus a hypocrite.

My response: www.answering-Christianity.com is a good website that has efectively and effeciently refuted all the lies of Christian missionaries of anti-Islam Christian websites! I know you are very angry with Osama Abdullah because he has expose the lies of anti-Islam Christian websites that shamelessly insult, degrade, slander Islam everyday! Fredi is a good example of Christians who degrade, insult and slander Islam by repeating his wild claims against Islam eventhough we Muslims have effectively and effeciently refuted his wild claims in his thread no compulsion - the latest......

In Islam Jesus is a great prophet of Allah and he is neither God nor the son of God but your Bible slanders him by making contradictory statements against Jesus so Jesus is a hypocrite according to your Bible. Since you Christians claim that Jesus is the Word of God , contradictory statements of the Bible reflect Jesus as the Word of God.

Did Jesus and God contradict their own word?  Jesus is a righteous prophet of God so he would not contradict the Word of God so who did invent the contradictory statements of the Bible? Answer: The keepers of the Bible ! What does these contradictions mean? The Bible is corrupt:

The entire Bible is corrupted and unreliable and is mostly filled with man-made laws and corruption!  "`How can you say, "We [the Jews] are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?' (From the NIV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)"

The Revised Standard Version makes it even clearer: "How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie.  (From the RSV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)"

In either translation, we clearly see that the Jews had so much corrupted the Bible with their man-made cultural laws, that they had turned the Bible into a lie!

My response: Jesus of Islam is not the same as the Jesus in the Bible.

In Islam Jesus is a great prophet of God for he is a righteous man who calls the Jews to worship Allah the One and Only. Jesus is neither God nor the son of God for Jesus is a servant of Allah.

AnnieTwo said: Jesus is a great prophet.  The Jews already worshipped one God.  Jesus is the Son of God.  Jesus was a servant to the Father while on earth.

My response: Jesus is not the son of God for God has no sons! Moses, Jesus and Muhammad (peace and bless upon them) said that God was ONE and ONLY so God has no sons and there are no other gods beside Him!

Christians claim that what is unique in the case of Jesus, is that he is the only begotten Son of God, while the others are merely “sons of God”. However, God is recorded as saying to Prophet David, in Psalms 2:7, “I will tell the decree of the Lord: He said to me, ‘You are my son, today I have begotten you.’ ” This contradiction has invalidated the Christian claim that Jesus is the son of God. How can the Bible contradict itself if it is the Word of God? Had the God of the Bible forgotten or change His mind about the begotten sons?

             It should also be noted that nowhere in the Gospels does Jesus actually call himself “Son of God”.  Instead, he is recorded to have repeatedly called himself “Son of man” (e.g. Luke 9:22) innumerable times. And in Luke 4:41, he actually rejected being called “Son of God”: “And demons also came out of many, crying, ‘You are the Son of God!’   But he rebuked them, and would not allow them to speak, because they knew that he was the Christ.”

             Since the Hebrews believed that God is One, and had neither wife nor children in any literal sense, it is obvious that the expression “son of God” merely meant to them “Servant of God”; one who, because of his faithful service, was close and dear to God, as a son is to a father. Christians who came from a Greek or Roman background, later misused this term. In their heritage, “son of God” signified an incarnation of a god or someone born of a physical union between male and female gods. When the Church cast aside its Hebrew foundations, it adopted the pagan concept of “son of God”, which was entirely different from the Hebrew usage.        

             Consequently, the use of the term “son of God” should only be understood from the Semitic symbolic sense of a “servant of God”, and not in the pagan sense of a literal offspring of God. In the four Gospels, Jesus is recorded as saying: “Blessed are the peace-makers; they will be called sons of God.”Matthew 5:9.

             Likewise, Jesus’ use of the term abba, “dear father”, should be understood similarly. There is a dispute among New Testament scholars as to precisely what abba meant in Jesus’ time and also as to how widely it was in use by other Jewish sects of that era. 

             James Barr has recently argued forcefully that it did not have the specially intimate sense that has so often been attributed to it, but that it simply meant “father”.Journal of Theological Studies, vol. 39 and Theology, vol. 91, no. 741. To think of God as “our heavenly Father” was by no means new, for in the Lord’s prayer he is reported to have taught his disciples to address God in this same familiar way.

Students of the Bible will easily notice that the title Son of God is often used in Matthew without agreement from Mark and Luke.  For example, what did the passers-by say at the scene of the cross?  Their saying is reported in Mark 15:29-30 and also in Matthew 27:40.  If you compare the two reports, you will notice that Matthew has added a phrase to the effect that Jesus is the Son of God.

We find another example of this in Matthew 14:22-33.  Jesus had just miraculously fed five thousand people with five loaves and two fish.  Then he sent his disciples to the other side of the sea.  After praying to God, Jesus went out miraculously walking on the sea to meet his disciples.  Eventually he got into the boat with them.  How did the disciples react to all this?  Mark and Matthew give us two different answers.  Mark says:

   “And they were utterly astounded, for they did not understand about the loaves, but their hearts were hardened” (Mark 6:51-52).

In Matthew, however, the disciples were not perplexed at all.  They had it all figured out and they knew exactly what to do.  Matthew says:

   “And those in the boat worshipped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God”” (Matthew 14:33).

Again, Matthew has improved the story to show that Jesus is the Son of God.

Students of the Bible will easily notice that the title Son of God is often used in Matthew without agreement from Mark and Luke.  For example, what did the passers-by say at the scene of the cross?  Their saying is reported in Mark 15:29-30 and also in Matthew 27:40.  If you compare the two reports, you will notice that Matthew has added a phrase to the effect that Jesus is the Son of God.

We find another example of this in Matthew 14:22-33.  Jesus had just miraculously fed five thousand people with five loaves and two fish.  Then he sent his disciples to the other side of the sea.  After praying to God, Jesus went out miraculously walking on the sea to meet his disciples.  Eventually he got into the boat with them.  How did the disciples react to all this?  Mark and Matthew give us two different answers.  Mark says:

   “And they were utterly astounded, for they did not understand about the loaves, but their hearts were hardened” (Mark 6:51-52).

In Matthew, however, the disciples were not perplexed at all.  They had it all figured out and they knew exactly what to do.  Matthew says:

   “And those in the boat worshipped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God”” (Matthew 14:33).

Again, Matthew has improved the story to show that Jesus is the Son of God.

Do you see how the writers of the Gospel of Matthew corrupt the Gospel improving the story to show that Jesus is the Son of God?

Matthew, Mark, and Luke, authors of the first three Gospels, believed that Jesus was not God (see Mark 10:18 and Matthew 19:17).  They believed that he was the son of God in the sense of a righteous person.  Many others too, are similarly called sons of God (see Matthew 23:1-9). Therefore God has no sons!

A common mistake among people is their thinking of God as a super human being somewhere up in the sky.  Then they attribute all kinds of human activity and relationships to God as if He was like human beings.  Once it is clear that humans have children, such people conclude that God has children too.  But God declares this idea to be false.

God tells us in His Book that there is nothing like Him (see surah 42:11).  God also says that there is nothing comparable unto Him (112:4).  Surely, God is not a physical being.  God tells us:

   "Vision comprehends Him not, but He comprehends (all) vision” (Qur’an 6:103).

God declares that those who impute sons and daughters to Him do so falsely and without knowledge (see surah 6:100).  The Qur’an appeals to our reason by saying:

   “The Originator of the heavens and the earth!  How can He have a child when he has no consort, when He created all things and is Aware of all things?” (6:101)

This is in obvious reply to those who may claim that God has a literal son or daughter, terms which in human languages mean the offspring of a pair.

Some may say, however, that God can produce a child without having a consort.  In that case, you are not speaking of a child but a creature of God.  In any case, God declares that He begets not, nor is He begotten (surah 112:3).

Some may say that God has adopted a child.  God declares that this idea too lacks reason.  Since everyone already belongs to God, what then is the point of adopting?  God says:

   “And they say: Allah has taken unto Himself a son.  Be He glorified!  Nay, but whatsoever is in the heaven and the earth are His.  All are subservient unto Him.  The originator of the heavens and the earth!  When He decrees a thing, He says unto it only: Be! and it is” (2:116-117).

God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)
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