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Interfaith Dialogue
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AbRah2006
 
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Quote AbRah2006 Replybullet Posted: 01 June 2006 at 9:33pm
Originally posted by herjihad

Bismillah,

Brothers Arah and Salman, I beseech you to stop blaming the victims of violence for crimes against them.  You hate the devils that do this, but by blaming the victims, you are deserting them alone, beaten and broken unaccepted by society.  Please stop it.

To anyone this has ever happened to:  I don't blame you.  Allah, SWT, doesn't blame you.  You have value.  You are important and will be important always.  Your heart and spirit and body have been violated, beaten, and yet raise your eyes up and see that you are pure in front of our Loving Lord.  If foolish people cast you out, our Vengeful Lord will cast them out, for He hates oppressors.

Peace

My response:

I am not condoning the rapists. In fact I hate those rapists as much as you do. The rapists should be punished severely that will discourages other potential rapists from raping women. There are many motives behind the rapes but I am very sympathetic to the victims of rapes because I understand the trauma faced by the victims. I wish I could protect all the women. May I suggest that women should wear decent clothes to prevent rape?

Please don't accuse me of condoning the rapists. I HATE RAPISTS!

The Quran, the Muslim's holy scripture, clearly enjoins Muslim men and women to dress and behave modestly. Muslim women are specifically instructed to cover their heads when in the presence of non-mahrem (potentially marriageable) men: 

 Surah Al-Nur (the Light) (24:31) in the Quran states: "They (the believing women) should draw their head coverings over their bosoms...". . Surah Al-Ahzab (33:59) states: "O Prophet [PBUH] Tell thy wives and daughters and the believing women that they should put on their outer garments; that is most convenient in order that THEY MAY BE RECOGNIZED (as Muslims) and not be molested."

Both of the above Quranic references instruct the Muslim woman to cover herself with a large, loose overcoat (jilbab) and full head covering (khimar) so that no provocative part of her body will be visible. Her modest appearance would MAKE IT CLEAR TO EVERYONE THAT SHE IS A CHASTE, BELIEVING WOMAN, and no one is to molest her or sexually exploit her.



Edited by AbRah2006
God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)
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salman_s
 
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Quote salman_s Replybullet Posted: 02 June 2006 at 4:21am
Originally posted by AbRah2006

Originally posted by herjihad

Bismillah,

Brothers Arah and Salman, I beseech you to stop blaming the victims of violence for crimes against them.  You hate the devils that do this, but by blaming the victims, you are deserting them alone, beaten and broken unaccepted by society.  Please stop it.

To anyone this has ever happened to:  I don't blame you.  Allah, SWT, doesn't blame you.  You have value.  You are important and will be important always.  Your heart and spirit and body have been violated, beaten, and yet raise your eyes up and see that you are pure in front of our Loving Lord.  If foolish people cast you out, our Vengeful Lord will cast them out, for He hates oppressors.

Peace

My response:

I am not condoning the rapists. In fact I hate those rapists as much as you do. The rapists should be punished severely that will discourages other potential rapists from raping women. There are many motives behind the rapes but I am very sympathetic to the victims of rapes because I understand the trauma faced by the victims. I wish I could protect all the women. May I suggest that women should wear decent clothes to prevent rape?

Please don't accuse me of condoning the rapists. I HATE RAPISTS!

The Quran, the Muslim's holy scripture, clearly enjoins Muslim men and women to dress and behave modestly. Muslim women are specifically instructed to cover their heads when in the presence of non-mahrem (potentially marriageable) men: 

 Surah Al-Nur (the Light) (24:31) in the Quran states: "They (the believing women) should draw their head coverings over their bosoms...". . Surah Al-Ahzab (33:59) states: "O Prophet [PBUH] Tell thy wives and daughters and the believing women that they should put on their outer garments; that is most convenient in order that THEY MAY BE RECOGNIZED (as Muslims) and not be molested."

Both of the above Quranic references instruct the Muslim woman to cover herself with a large, loose overcoat (jilbab) and full head covering (khimar) so that no provocative part of her body will be visible. Her modest appearance would MAKE IT CLEAR TO EVERYONE THAT SHE IS A CHASTE, BELIEVING WOMAN, and no one is to molest her or sexually exploit her.

sister herjihad, my response is the same to you, same as what abrah said.

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Quote Angel Replybullet Posted: 02 June 2006 at 5:28am
Originally posted by AbRah2006

I am very sympathetic to the victims of rapes because I understand the trauma faced by the victims. I wish I could protect all the women. May I suggest that women should wear decent clothes to prevent rape?

If you are sympathetic and understand the trauma, then should know that clothing doesn not matter, IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT YOU WEAR!!!!!!! YOU OBVIOUSLY HAVE NOT BEENING READING PROPERLY!!

AND I AM SICK AND TIRED OF HEARING THIS that women should would decent clothes to prevent rape it does notit does not  it does not  it does not.

Being fully clothed can leave men with ideas of what is underneath and create lustful desires, dressing modestly or decent clothes as you say abrah DOESN"T protect you.

You need to get that stuck in your mind. 

Being without much clothes on, leaves NOTHING to the imagination, your body is on show, when you see the same thing everyday you lose interest, its boring. 



Edited by Angel
~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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Angel
 
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Quote Angel Replybullet Posted: 02 June 2006 at 5:41am
Originally posted by herjihad

Bismillah,

Brothers Arah and Salman, I beseech you to stop blaming the victims of violence for crimes against them.  You hate the devils that do this, but by blaming the victims, you are deserting them alone, beaten and broken unaccepted by society.  Please stop it.

To anyone this has ever happened to:  I don't blame you.  Allah, SWT, doesn't blame you.  You have value.  You are important and will be important always.  Your heart and spirit and body have been violated, beaten, and yet raise your eyes up and see that you are pure in front of our Loving Lord.  If foolish people cast you out, our Vengeful Lord will cast them out, for He hates oppressors.

Peace

Angela

Mishmish

I second everything you have said, so i really don't have to say anything  this topic comes up every now and then, and i have said practically the same things and i think in 4 and half years i haven't been involved. I remember in the earlier years, muslim women here (they're not anymore) were the same as the men in this thread notably Abrah and Salman. But it is refreshing to see that a few muslim women are doing what i have been doing.  

But as i have said also, there a few women (and i am not talk about all, so you men here can get of that high horse and stay away from it to use it as an excuse to push the blame on women because it is not!!!) there are a few women, that do ask for it in the way they dress. And there a few women who do rape men and they too are a victim they never asked for it, it is just that its not as forthcoming as women in reports.

~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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Quote amlhabibi2000 Replybullet Posted: 02 June 2006 at 7:07am

 

Arah Salam Alaikoam

In my city we have not seen this kind of behavior or if it has happened it is very limited.

I would apologize for them but they have to do that themselves.

Education, Training, Counseling and Consultation is the only way things will get better in my view.

Anne Marie

 

Judgement day passes in the moment we decide something needs attention & we take positive action. Then there will be a great sorting out of people into groups, Inspired by Surah 99 Ayat 1-8
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Quote amlhabibi2000 Replybullet Posted: 02 June 2006 at 7:13am

 

By the way rape occurs regardless of what people are wearing and what about the rape and molestation of children and children and young adults, boys and girls being forced into prostitution?

Again this will only stop as we have more accessible Education, training, counseling and consultation in our communities so no one falls through the cracks and is left to become an abuser or purpatratrator.

Everyone is that valueable that no stone should be left un turned to assist them/us we being the best we can be.

We are Messengers after all and our Message should be one of grace and dignity for all.

We are care givers and gaurdians and we need the tools to be the best we can be.

Anne Marie

 

 

 

 

 

Judgement day passes in the moment we decide something needs attention & we take positive action. Then there will be a great sorting out of people into groups, Inspired by Surah 99 Ayat 1-8
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Quote Hayfa Replybullet Posted: 02 June 2006 at 10:48am

You can ask a behavioral researcher why men rape and he says they just get turned on by the wrong stimuli!

But what is the 'right and wrong stimuli? This is like I as a woman can guess what may 'turn on a man'. For instance, I could walk a funny way for one man, or I could have blue eyes, or I resemble their mother who he hates. How do you say what is 'wrong stimuli?' Being turned on by nudity does not = violence. If it were a bout sex you could just go to a prostitute and pay for the sex.  Sex is free all over. You can go to a bar, pick someone up and have sex. But to violate a person against their will is a different matter.

I know a woman who a man broke into her house and raped her. She was not in front of him naked. He made a WILLFUL choice. He is DEVIANT. Most men, who have any decency would not break into a house a rape a woman. This is a violation of her rights at a human being.

You see, men who will rape, are not predictable. They are DEVIANT. Any decent man worth hissault would not violate another human being.

Yes the Quran directed women to dress modestly, and men to LOOK DOWN. This has much value. But how do you jump to in eliminating rape? Women are raped all over the world. n every culture and every society. This is against what Allah has ordered us to do. This is the fault of MAN (or humans) that we do many things against Allah.

Considering that in Moslem countries they do not really keep statistics of rape it is difficult to gauge what is what. Because of the culture, women are not going to admit to being raped for the backlash against them would be strong.

The sad case of the dress code here in the west is a separate issue than the rape of women.

When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi
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Quote amlhabibi2000 Replybullet Posted: 02 June 2006 at 2:30pm

Considering that in Moslem countries they do not really keep statistics of rape it is difficult to gauge what is what. Because of the culture, women are not going to admit to being raped for the backlash against them would be strong. Hayfa

 

You are very correct in your statement many rapes and cases of Incest are not reported for fear of backlash against women and there are many women in prisons because they were raped and men used false witnesses to say they went willingly.

There is a great deal of work to be done in the world and it can and must be done to Educate, Train, Counsel and Consult everyone on how to be a better person and forgive past injustices.

Education, Counseling and Consultation are key for these are true justice at least in my view possibly with a period away from society if need be but a better prison system than what is in place in many countries now were people recieve no Education and Counseling or are consulted in ways to prevent such behavior.

The way a person dresses is no excuse for bad behavior.

 

 

 

 

 

Judgement day passes in the moment we decide something needs attention & we take positive action. Then there will be a great sorting out of people into groups, Inspired by Surah 99 Ayat 1-8
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