Active TopicsActive Topics  Display List of Forum MembersMemberlist  CalendarCalendar  Search The ForumSearch  HelpHelp
  RegisterRegister  LoginLogin  Old ForumOld Forum  Twitter  Facebook
Advertisement:
         

Interfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Interfaith Dialogue
Message Icon Topic: The Trinity is a Pagan Doctrine. Post Reply Post New Topic
<< Prev Page  of 11 Next >>
Author Message
BMZ
 
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 03 April 2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1852
Quote BMZ Replybullet Posted: 30 May 2006 at 9:19am

Annie,

"I think everyone knows that the word "Trinity" is not in the New Testament.  It was a term that explains the concept which is derived from Scriptures."

Why was the concept derived, Annie? Was it because the twelve disciples or apostles could not teach and explain correctly what Jesus taught? It took 365 years and Augustine, an outsider who was possibly baptised on his deathbed, to enforce the Trinity, not even explained by Jesus' own apostles.

Jesus taught, "Worship only thy God the Lord with all your heart, mind and soul." What could be clearer than that?

This would be the prelude to my next question after I answer my own question on Qur'aan.

IP IP Logged
AbRah2006
 
Guest Group
Guest Group
Avatar

Joined: 13 May 2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 354
Quote AbRah2006 Replybullet Posted: 31 May 2006 at 12:29am

Given the fact that there has never been in the history of the Torah (Old Testament) the religion of God to be named after a Prophet (i.e. Adaminity, Abrahamity, Mosanity, etc.), I hope to explain that Jesus did not preach the religion of Christianity, but a religion that gives all Praise and Worship to The One God.

One of the questions I asked myself as I took an objective (second) look at Christianity was; where did the word Christianity come from and was the word ever mentioned to Jesus? Well, I did not find the word Christianity in the Bible, not even in a Bible dictionary. Specifically, I did not find in the Bible where Jesus called himself a Christian. 

The word Christian was first mentioned by a pagan to describe those who followed Jesus. It is mentioned one of three times in the New Testament by a pagan and Jew in Antioch about 43 AD, (Acts 11:26, Acts 26:28 and 1 Peter 4:16) long after Jesus left this earth. To accept the words of pagans as having any value or association with divinity, Jesus or God is contrary to the teachings of all Prophets.  

Jesus prophesied that people would worship him uselessly and believe in doctrines made by men (Matthew 15:9). 

"But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men." This verse, Matthew 15:9, is further supported by these words of the Quran: 

"And (remember) when Allah will say (on the Day of Resurrection): "O Jesus, son of Mary! Did you say unto men: "Worship me and my mother as two gods besides Allah?" He will say: "Glory be to You! It was not for me to say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, You would surely have known it. You know what is in my inner-self though I do not know what is in Yours, truly, You, only You, are the All-Knower o fall that is hidden and unseen. 

Never did I say to them aught except what You (Allah) did command me to say: ‘Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord.’ And I was a witness over them while I dwelt amongst them, but when You took me up, You were a Witness to all things. (This is a great admonition and warning to the Christians of the whole world)." (Al-Ma’idah 5:116-117) 

I found that Biblical verses like John 5:30, John 12:49, John 14:28, Isaiah 42:8 and Acts 2:22 support the above mentioned verses of the Quran. 

Question: If Christians are Christ-like, why are they not greeting each other with the words; Peace be with you (Salamu Alaikum), as Jesus did in Luke 24:36. As you may be aware, the greeting from one Muslim to another Muslim is Assalamu Alaikum; a Christ-like saying.

God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)
IP IP Logged
AbRah2006
 
Guest Group
Guest Group
Avatar

Joined: 13 May 2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 354
Quote AbRah2006 Replybullet Posted: 31 May 2006 at 9:57pm

The doctrine of Trinity denies the Oneness of God by saying that God is One in Three so the Christians are not revering ONE GOD , they are revering THREE PERSONS!

It misleads people to Hell by promoting the worship of man!

 



Edited by AbRah2006
God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)
IP IP Logged
mariyah
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 29 March 2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1283
Quote mariyah Replybullet Posted: 01 June 2006 at 12:56am

Assalaamu alaikum:

To see a good article on A Muslims perspective on the Trinity doctrine go to  http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/ahm/trinity.htm 

"Every good deed is charity whether you come to your brother's assistance or just greet him with a smile.
IP IP Logged
AbRah2006
 
Guest Group
Guest Group
Avatar

Joined: 13 May 2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 354
Quote AbRah2006 Replybullet Posted: 01 June 2006 at 5:45am

The Trinity is a lie

Both the Noble Quran and the Bible claim that GOD Almighty is an Absolute One and only One:

"And your God is One God: There is no God but He, ..." (The Qur'an 2:163)

"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.  (From the NIV Bible, Deuteronomy 6:4)"

"The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.  (From the NIV Bible, Mark 12:29)"

Notice also how Jesus said "our God", which included him to be under GOD Almighty's creation and Divine Authority, and not someone or an entity that is equal to GOD Almighty.

The Bible's New Testament also records Jesus saying: ""Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good–except God alone."   (From the NIV Bible, Mark 10:18)" If Jesus doesn't consider himself as "good", then how can any sane person put him on the same level as GOD Almighty?

Also, another important point to notice in Mark 10:18 is the word "alone":   ""Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good–except God alone."   (From the NIV Bible, Mark 10:18)"

Jesus in this verse is clearly giving exclusivity to GOD Almighty when he said "alone".  If Jesus was truly part of GOD Almighty and/or the trinity lie was true, then Jesus, to say the least, would not have said that. If he rejected being called “good”, and stated that only God is truly good, he clearly implies that he is not God.

 “ The Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was only the Messenger of God, and His Word that He committed to Mary, and a Spirit from Him. So believe in God and His Messengers, and say not "Three". Refrain; better it is for you. God is only one God. Glory be to Him -- (He is) above having a son” (4:171).

It is a known fact that every language has one or more terms that are used in reference to God and sometimes to lesser deities. This is not the case with Allah. Allah is the personal name of the One true God. Nothing else can be called Allah. The term has no plural or gender. This shows its uniqueness when compared with the word "god," which can be made plural, as in "gods," or made feminine, as in "goddess." It is interesting to notice that Allah is the personal name of God in Aramaic, the language of Jesus and a sister language of Arabic.

             The One true God is a reflection of the unique concept that Islam associates with God. To a Muslim, Allah is the Almighty Creator and Sustainer of the universe, Who is similar to nothing, and nothing is comparable to Him.

The Prophet Muhammad was asked by his contemporaries about Allah; the answer came directly from God Himself in the form of a short chapter of the Qur'an, which is considered to be the essence of the unity or the motto of monotheism. This is chapter 112, which reads:“ In the name of Allah, the Merciful, the Compassionate. Say (O Muhammad), He is God, the One God, the Everlasting Refuge, who has not begotten, nor has been begotten, and equal to Him is not anyone”.



Edited by AbRah2006
God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)
IP IP Logged
AbRah2006
 
Guest Group
Guest Group
Avatar

Joined: 13 May 2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 354
Quote AbRah2006 Replybullet Posted: 02 June 2006 at 11:59pm
Angela wrote:
AnnieTwo wrote:
AbRah2006 wrote:
Angela wrote:

No, you do not do the same thing.....

You start off by saying Let me prove you wrong and then you just cut and paste. 

Besides, you've proven you cannot understand simple concepts like allegory, poetic prose and historical commentary.

Yes I don't understand simple concepts like  1 + 1 + 1 = 1. What kind of biblical mathematics is this? All I know is One means 1 not 3 ! I wonder why there are some so-called educated people who force themselves to believe that 1 + 1 + 1 = 1

Even children will say that 1+ 1 + 1 = 3 !



AbRah, it is not 1+1+1=3; it is 1x1x1=1

I've never seen the 1x1x1=3 analogy....nice comeback.  I may not agree entirely with Trinitarian Doctrine, but I applaud the creative comeback. 

My response: Your anology 1x1x1=1 is illogical since  the Son, the Father and the Holy Spirit are three different Persons so you cannot use the same '1' for each Person. Lets us say The Son = 1 , the Father = 2 and the Holy Spirit = 3 so 1 x 2 x 3 = 6 !!!

Therefore the Trinity is a false doctrine invented by a group of corrupt Christian priests of Nicea to reject the Oneness of God by claiming that God is ONE in THREE PERSONS! By inventing the Trinity the corrupt Christian priests rejected Moses , Jesus and Muhammad who said that God was ONE and ONLY !

Moses , Jesus and Muhammad (peace and bless upon them) did not say that God is one in three!

Moses , Jesus and Muhammad(peace and bless upon them) said that God was ONE and ONLY:

concept of the Oneness of God was stressed by Moses in a Biblical passage known as the "Shema" or the Jewish creed of faith: "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord." (Deuteronomy 6:4)

It was repeated word-for-word approximately 1500 years later by Jesus when he said: "...The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; the Lord our God is one Lord." (Mark 12:29)

Muhammad came along approximately 600 years later, bringing the same message again: "And your God is One God: There is no God but He, ..." (The Qur'an 2:163)

Christianity claims to be a monotheistic religion. Monotheism, however, has as its fundamental belief that God is One; the Christian doctrine of the Trinity - God being Three-in-One - is seen by Islam as a form of polytheism. Christians don't revere just One God, they revere three.

People of the Book, go not beyond the bounds in your religion, and say not as to God but the truth.

             “ The Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was only the Messenger of God, and His Word that He committed to Mary, and a Spirit from Him. So believe in God and His Messengers, and say not "Three". Refrain; better it is for you. God is only one God. Glory be to Him -- (He is) above having a son” (4:171).

 It is a known fact that every language has one or more terms that are used in reference to God and sometimes to lesser deities. This is not the case with Allah. Allah is the personal name of the One true God. Nothing else can be called Allah. The term has no plural or gender. This shows its uniqueness when compared with the word "god," which can be made plural, as in "gods," or made feminine, as in "goddess." It is interesting to notice that Allah is the personal name of God in Aramaic, the language of Jesus and a sister language of Arabic.

             The One true God is a reflection of the unique concept that Islam associates with God. To a Muslim, Allah is the Almighty Creator and Sustainer of the universe, Who is similar to nothing, and nothing is comparable to Him. The Prophet Muhammad was asked by his contemporaries about Allah; the answer came directly from God Himself in the form of a short chapter of the Qur'an, which is considered to be the essence of the unity or the motto of monotheism. This is chapter 112, which reads:“ In the name of Allah, the Merciful, the Compassionate. Say (O Muhammad), He is God, the One God, the Everlasting Refuge, who has not begotten, nor has been begotten, and equal to Him is not anyone”.

If the Creator is Eternal and Everlasting, then His attributes must also be eternal and everlasting. He should not lose any of His attributes nor acquire new ones. If this is so, then his attributes are absolute. Can there be more than one Creator with such absolute attributes? Can there be, for example, two absolutely powerful Creators? A moment's thought shows that this is not feasible.

             The Qur'an summarizes this argument in the following verses:“ God has not taken to Himself any son, nor is there any god with Him: for then each god would have taken of that which he created and some of them would have risen up over others” (Quran 23:91).

             “ And why, were there gods in earth and heaven other than God, they (heaven and earth) would surely go to ruin” (Quran 21:22).

Who is Allah? “ He is God; there is no god but He. He is the Knower of the unseen and the visible; He is the All-Merciful, the All-Compassionate. He is God; there is no god but He. He is the King, the All-Holy, the All-Peace, the Guardian of the Faith, the All-Preserver, the All-Mighty, the All-Compeller, the All-Sublime. Glory be to God, above that they associate! He is God, the Creator, the Maker, the Shaper. To Him belong the Names Most Beautiful. All that is in the heavens and the earth magnifies Him; He is the Almighty, the All-Wise” (Quran 59:22-24).



Edited by AbRah2006
God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)
IP IP Logged
Patty
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 14 September 2001
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2382
Quote Patty Replybullet Posted: 03 June 2006 at 7:03am

With due respect, the most concise and uncomplicated explanation is found here:

"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." (I John 5:7)

Three completely separate entities, all in one Triune Godhead.  How hard is that to understand?  I'm not insinuating you have to believe it, but it is certainly as plain as the nose on your face to understand.

Believe whatever you are called to believe, but don't insult my beliefs. I would never intentionally insult yours.  (If I'm not mistaken, we will ALL answer to God on Judgement Day for the insults and disrespect we have shown other human beings, regardless of their faith, gender, culture, race, or nationality.)  Are you going to be at peace when this day arrives?

God Bless Us,

 



Edited by Patty
Patty

I don't know what the future holds....but I know who holds the future.
IP IP Logged
BMZ
 
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 03 April 2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1852
Quote BMZ Replybullet Posted: 03 June 2006 at 7:33am

Patty, you've got such a sweet avatar that it makes me go soft and sweet!

You quoted: "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." (I John 5:7)"

Patty, this was how John explained. It was John's own view and own statement, not Christ's view. I do not find anything of this sort in the Bible, taught by Jesus himself.

Aren't you relying more on what men thought and what men said?

 

IP IP Logged
<< Prev Page  of 11 Next >>
Post Reply Post New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Disclaimer:
The opinions expressed herein contain positions and viewpoints that are not necessarily those of IslamiCity. This forum is offered to stimulate dialogue and discussion in our continuing mission of being an educational organization.
If there is any issue with any of the postings please email to icforum at islamicity.com or if you are a forum's member you can use the report button.

Note: The 99 names of Allah avatars are courtesy of www.arthafez.com

Advertisement:



Sponsored by:
Islamicity Membership Program:
IslamiCity Donation Program  http://www.islamicity.com/Donate
IslamiCity Arabic eLearning http://www.islamiCity.com/ArabAcademy
Complete Domain & Hosting Solutions www.icDomain.com
Home for Muslim Tunes www.icTunes.com
Islamic Video Collections www.islamiTV.com
IslamiCity Marriage Site www.icMarriage.com