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Interfaith Dialogue
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Message Icon Topic: The Trinity is a Pagan Doctrine. Post Reply Post New Topic
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AnnieTwo
 
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Quote AnnieTwo Replybullet Posted: 29 May 2006 at 6:22am
Originally posted by bmzsp

Annie,

This is progress: "Yes, Paul used the word "man."  Jesus was a man.  Is this news to you?"

Good! Shall we then leave Jesus as no more than a man? No, it was never a news to me for I knew Jesus was always a man.



How is this "progress?"  Christians have always known that Jesus was human.  But, as the apostles knew and as his followers knew and as Christians know, Jesus was more than a man.  The Qur'an says so too when it claims that Jesus was the Messiah.  The Messiah was to be a divine figure.

Notice that Paul does not say that Jesus was "just a man."

Annie
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AbRah2006
 
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Quote AbRah2006 Replybullet Posted: 29 May 2006 at 6:45am
Originally posted by AnnieTwo

Originally posted by bmzsp

Annie,

This is progress: "Yes, Paul used the word "man."  Jesus was a man.  Is this news to you?"

Good! Shall we then leave Jesus as no more than a man? No, it was never a news to me for I knew Jesus was always a man.



How is this "progress?"  Christians have always known that Jesus was human.  But, as the apostles knew and as his followers knew and as Christians know, Jesus was more than a man.  The Qur'an says so too when it claims that Jesus was the Messiah.  The Messiah was to be a divine figure.

Notice that Paul does not say that Jesus was "just a man."

Annie

 

My response:

1) Please show me the Quranic verses that state Jesus was more than a man.

2) Please show me your proofs that state the apostles knew and as his followers knew and as Christians know, Jesus was more than a man. 

3) Please show me your proofs that state The Messiah was to be a divine figure.



Edited by AbRah2006
God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)
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George
 
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Quote George Replybullet Posted: 29 May 2006 at 7:16am
Originally posted by bmzsp

AbRah,

Good quote and it is a solid one from paul.

"In 1st Timothy, 2:5, Paul writes: “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.”

Paul, though I don't like him personally, at least has always been honest and bold with that statement. He never mixes Jesus with God. Although Paul only calls him son of God, he always maintains that Jesus was a man who could intercede with God. BUt for sure, Paul has never called him the GOD. This is a better explanation than trinity.

BMZ,

This is really an interesting comment coming from you since you have always told me that Paul "invented" the Trinity.   

 

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AbRah2006
 
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Quote AbRah2006 Replybullet Posted: 29 May 2006 at 7:22am

 

Former Christian Priests and Missionaries who have Embraced Islam:

Dr Jerald F.Dirks Former minister (deacon) of the United Methodist Church. He holds a Master's degree in Divinity from Harvard University and a Doctorate in Psychology from the University of Denver. Author of The Cross and the Crescent: An Interfaith Dialogue between Christianity and Islam (ISBN 1-59008-002-5 - Amana Publications, 2001). He has published over 60 articles in the field of clinical psychology, and over 150 articles on Arabian horses

I was a Christian, or so I said.  After all, I had been born into a Christian family, had been given a Christian upbringing, had attended church and Sunday school every Sunday as a child, had graduated from a prestigious seminary, and was an ordained minister in a large Protestant denomination.  However, I was also a Christian:  who didn’t believe in a triune godhead or in the divinity of Jesus, peace be upon him; who knew quite well how the Bible had been corrupted; who had said the Islamic testimony of faith in my own carefully parsed words; who had fasted during Ramadan; who was saying Islamic prayers five times a day; and who was deeply impressed by the behavioral examples I had witnessed in the Muslim community, both in America and in the Middle East.

Not too many months after our return to America from the Middle East, a neighbor invited us over to his house, saying that he wanted to talk with us about our conversion to Islam.  He was a retired Methodist minister, with whom I had had several conversations in the past.  Although we had occasionally talked superficially about such issues as the artificial construction of the Bible from various, earlier, independent sources, we had never had any in-depth conversation about religion.  I knew only that he appeared to have acquired a solid seminary education, and that he sang in the local church choir every Sunday.


My initial reaction was, “Oh, oh, here it comes”.  Nonetheless, it is a Muslim’s duty to be a good neighbor, and it is a Muslim’s duty to be willing to discuss Islam with others.  As such, I accepted the invitation for the following evening, and spent most of the waking part of the next 24 hours contemplating how best to approach this gentleman in his requested topic of conversation.  The appointed time came, and we drove over to our neighbor’s.  After a few moments of small talk, he finally asked why I had decided to become a Muslim.  I had waited for this question, and had my answer carefully prepared.  “As you know with your seminary education, there were a lot of non-religious considerations which led up to and shaped the decisions of the Council of Nicaea.”  He immediately cut me off with a simple statement:  “You finally couldn’t stomach the polytheism anymore, could you?”  He knew exactly why I was a Muslim, and he didn’t disagree with my decision!  For himself, at his age and at his place in life, he was electing to be “an atypical Christian”.  Allah willing, he has by now completed his journey from cross to crescent.          

 

God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)
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AbRah2006
 
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Quote AbRah2006 Replybullet Posted: 29 May 2006 at 7:29am
Originally posted by George

Originally posted by bmzsp

AbRah,

Good quote and it is a solid one from paul.

"In 1st Timothy, 2:5, Paul writes: “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.”

Paul, though I don't like him personally, at least has always been honest and bold with that statement. He never mixes Jesus with God. Although Paul only calls him son of God, he always maintains that Jesus was a man who could intercede with God. BUt for sure, Paul has never called him the GOD. This is a better explanation than trinity.

BMZ,

This is really an interesting comment coming from you since you have always told me that Paul "invented" the Trinity.   

 

 

My response:

Hey George why do you worship Jesus who is a man?  Only pagans worship men such as Pharoah, Japanese emperors etc. Even Paul called Jesus THE MAN by saying " THE MAN Jesus". Thank Allah for I worship Allah the true God and none is equal to Allah. Jesus is a man for he looks and behaves like a man  and he is made of flesh. The Bible and Quran say that none is like God so Jesus is not God ! And God will not change into a man and God is not made of flesh for none is like God!



Edited by AbRah2006
God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)
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Quote AbRah2006 Replybullet Posted: 29 May 2006 at 8:18am

Dr. Gary Miller was a former Christian missionary who have embraced Islam:

Gary Miller (Abdul-Ahad Omar) shows how we can establish true faith by setting standards of truth. He illustrates a simple but effective method of finding out the right direction in our search for truth.


G.R. Miller is a mathematician and a theologian. He was active in Christian missionary work at a particular point of his life but he soon began to discover many inconsistencies in the Bible. In 1978, he happened to read the Qur'an expecting that it, too, would contain a mixture of truth and falsehood.


He discovered to his amazement that the message of the Qur'an was precisely the same as the essence of truth that he had distilled from the Bible. He became a Muslim and since then has been active in giving public presentations on Islam including radio and television appearances. He is also the author of several articles and publications about Islam.

Please visit   http://english.islamway.com/bindex.php?section=lessons&l esson_id=297&scholar_id=30  if you wish to hear a lecture about The Devinity of Jesus.



Edited by AbRah2006
God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)
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zulqarnain
 
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Quote zulqarnain Replybullet Posted: 30 May 2006 at 4:43am
The word Trinity doesn't exist in the current GOSPELS. It's an illogical theory invented by the church.
And We have not sent you(O Muhammad!) but as a mercy to the worlds. (Al-Quran 21: 107)
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AnnieTwo
 
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Quote AnnieTwo Replybullet Posted: 30 May 2006 at 4:50am
Originally posted by zulqarnain

The word Trinity doesn't exist in the current GOSPELS. It's an illogical theory invented by the church.


I think everyone knows that the word "Trinity" is not in the New Testament.  It was a term that explains the concept which is derived from Scriptures.
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