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Islamic INTRAfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Islamic INTRAfaith Dialogue
Message Icon Topic: Islamic Practice & Logic Post Reply Post New Topic
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Mishmish
 
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Quote Mishmish Replybullet Posted: 26 May 2006 at 9:47pm

Brother, you are free to believe what you choose to believe. That is your right, and the Quran states:

Al-Baqara (The Cow) 

2:256 Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.

However, just because you don't see a sin doesn't mean it isn't there. I believe only the Prophets and Messengers of God saw sin with clarity, and they were still just men. If men were able to judge this on their own, there would have been no need for the Prophets, the Messengers, or even the Word of God. We would have just known.

There are some Hadith which may contradict each other or the Quran, but the message of the Prophet Mohammed and Islam is a way of life, and following the Prophet means following his example, as it meant with those Apostles who came before him.

An-Nasr (The Help) 
10:15 AND [thus it is:] whenever Our messages are conveyed unto them in all their clarity, those who do not believe that they are destined to meet Us [are wont to] say, "Bring us a discourse other than this, or alter this one.Ē  Say [O prophet]: "It is not conceivable that I should alter it of my own volition; I only follow what is revealed to me. Behold, I would dread, were I [thus] to rebel against my Sustainer, the suffering [which would befall me] on that ,awesome Day [of Judgment]!"

Al-A'raf (The Heights)
7:157 those who shall follow the [last] Apostle, the unlettered prophet whom they shall find described in the Torah that is with them, and [later on] in the Gospel:  [the prophet] who will enjoin upon them the doing of what is right and forbid them the doing of what is wrong, and make lawful to them the good things of life and forbid them the bad things, and lift from them their burdens and the shackles that were upon them [aforetime].  Those, therefore, who shall believe in him, and honour him, and succour him, and follow the light that has been bestowed from on high through him-it is they that shall attain to a happy state."

As for men looking and women dressing modestly, the Quran says this:

Al-Nour
24:30 Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty: that will make for greater purity for them: And Allah is well acquainted with all that they do.

Al-Nour (The Light) 

24:31 And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or the slaves whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex; and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O ye Believers! turn ye all together towards Allah, that ye may attain Bliss.

Because you hold your beliefs does not mean you should make light the Hadith, nor those who follow them. There are people who have spent their lives studying Quran and Hadith, and may perhaps know better than you.

As far as comparing someone insane who needs a drug fix to someone who prays 5 times a day, that is extremely offensive and a mockery. If you have read the Quran, you should recognise these verses:

Al-Ma'idah (The Table Spread)
5:58 When ye proclaim your call to prayer they take it (but) as mockery and sport; that is because they are a people without understanding.

Al-Baqara (The Cow) 
2:15 Allah will throw back their mockery on them, and give them rope in their trespasses; so they will wander like blind ones (To and fro).

At-Tauba (The Repentance)
9:65 If thou dost question them, they declare (with emphasis): "We were only talking idly and in play." Say: "Was it at Allah, and His Signs, and His Messenger, that ye were mocking?"

Ash-Shu'ara (The Poets) 26:6 They have indeed rejected (the Message): so they will know soon (enough) the truth of what they mocked at!

Allah knows all that you say and do.



Edited by Mishmish
It is only with the heart that one can see clearly, what is essential is invisible to the eye. (The Little Prince)
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seekshidayath
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Quote seekshidayath Replybullet Posted: 28 May 2006 at 1:13am

  Barazi and Israfil pls keep discussing this topic over here instead of private. Am sure there are many people like Barazi {thoughts} and they need a very good guidance from members like u.

Fatima, Amah and Mishmish , loved u r posts.

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enes
 
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Quote enes Replybullet Posted: 28 May 2006 at 4:11am

Hello Barazi.

I m not studing anythink, nothing, just basics scools...I m sory if I m not talk Logicaly ;)

If you allow me, i want say my comments...

Everyhuman has different thought of Logic. ...

Somethinks can logicaly for you but for me not....

There  can always a Logic in every think, its up to human, how he/she  see and think it...also knowledge is important

There is thinks, I tryed find the logic for somethinks, after anothers explain of Logics so that was not Logicaly for me..  After many years passed so I got the Logic...

I think my comments are not so important..But That is my Logic about Logic ;)

 

 



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fatima
 
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Quote fatima Replybullet Posted: 28 May 2006 at 5:43am

Bismillah irrahman irrahim

 

Assalamu alaikum

 

You would appreciate every one being reasonable to you replying to your post and I hope I get the same even though some thing I would say seem harsh to you. I would want to answer to your comments to sister Mishmish and hope she donít mind me doing this, I totally agree to your first comment that we should have a stronger will than giving in to shaytan every time and this is proven with a hadith which mentions that our worst enemy is our own nafs, shaytan only whispers in our ears and to listen to it is up to us but spitting three times on your left is what is mentioned in a sahih hadith, I would advise you to be bit more respectful when you mention ahadith even though you disagree with their authenticity.

 

I disagree with your second comment, Allah swt who is our creator knows us more than ourselves, Allah swt says in Holy Quran that He created man as weak, in another place He said that if it was not for the fact that even the strongest of believers would steer away from right path, Allah swt would give so much to disbelievers that it fills all the space in earth (or its between the heaven and earth) because thatís all they are ever getting, pleasure for a very short while and thatís how little this world means to Allah swt.  Now your comment about salah, brother it is not upto you to decide about Laws of Allah swt, there is consensus over the fact that a person who thinks five times prayer is not fard on him and leaves it, is falling in a major sin, not being able to pray five times a day due to being lazy and negligent is a different  matter but I pray and hope that none of us fall into first category.

 

Your third comment, well issue of hijab being discussed in too too much detail and if you go to sisterís section you will find Quranic evidence along with sahih Ahadith which mentions necessity of women covering up, brother you think that not practising the islamic dress code and shaking hands with opposite sex is no big deal, few generation later it might be tight jeans and kiss on the cheek and few generation later having a relation then its drugs and all that, I am not just saying it, it is an educated guess cos thatís the route for western cultures and thatís why Allah swt did not leave it for humans to decide because in His complete knowledge He knows that this finite being is short sighted.

 

Now your last few comments involve you thinking that if some thing is not in Holy Quran, its upto you to follow the ahadith or not, well very respectfully but you cannot be more wrong, Allah swt says in Holy Quran, Ď4:80] Whoever obeys the Messenger, he indeed obeys Allah, and whoever turns back, so We have not sent you as a keeper over themí. There are ahadith which prohibit the tattooing, shaking hands with opposite sex and lastly prayer of five times are mentioned in Holy Quran at two different places, do you not think that if it was more beneficial Allah swt would have just send His laws and commandments straight down from heaven without a Messenger (as) in between, actually come to think of it that would have been bigger miracle a book coming down from the blue sky but He did not, He chose to send Prophets (as) because thatís easier way for His slave to follow.  when Allah swt left the details of some basic matters out of Holy Quran and then said follow the Messenger (saw) and thatís is following your Lord,  donít you think He is going to make sure that practises of His Messenger (saw) reaches to all the generations there are to come?  Allah swt says in Holy Quran that He is not going to give a reason to disbelievers to make their case of disbelief on The Day of Judgment.

 

You said rightly in your comment to sister amah that understanding Holy Quran in its totality is not even possible for scholars, ahadith tells us that it was not even possible for Messengers (as) to completely understand what is in the Holy Books. But brother Allah swt says in Holy Quran that some part of the Book are clear (muhkamat) and some not so clear (mutashabihat) and we should learn second type through first not the other way round.

 

Lastly before I say what I want to say I am clearing it up that when some one tells you that what you doing is wrong, they donít mean that you going to hell in result of it as there are plenty of ahadith which tells us that a person could be sinning all his life and still go to paradise due to his last act as you are raised from state in which you die and judgement is only for Allah swt not for us human to decide who is going where, saying that yes till the day you donít have a firm belief in your heart that five daily prayers are fard, you are sinning, thatís is the major issue, the other things which you belive in like necessity of covering up and tattooing and only believing in ahadith which suite you well they put you in wrong, and I am saying all this in a hope that you donít mind my honesty as you expected the same from us

 

All knowledge is with Allah swt

 

Wassalam

Say: (O Muhammad) If you love Allah, then follow me, Allah will love you and forgive you your faults, and Allah is Forgiving, MercifuL
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amah
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Quote amah Replybullet Posted: 28 May 2006 at 6:25am
Masha Allah sister Fatima!

May Allah increase you in your knowledge and understanding!
Allah is Sufficient as a Walee (Protector) and Allah is Sufficient as a Naseer (Helper).
(Surah An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #45)
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salman_s
 
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Quote salman_s Replybullet Posted: 28 May 2006 at 8:23am
masha Allah  sister fatima
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