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Interfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Interfaith Dialogue
Message Icon Topic: Is the Bible the Word of God?(Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post Reply Post New Topic
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DavidC
 
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bullet Posted: 27 May 2006 at 11:13am
Hi AnnieTwo,

There are quite a few Christians here, myself incuded, but this is an *INTERFAITH* forum.  All discussion should reflect both Christianity AND Islam. 

Muslims do hold to the Bible as Christians do, and using biblical scripture to support your points is not convincing.  You need to find Islamic scripture or accepted history that supports your beliefs.  It is there and readily accessible.  The Qu'ran and Hadith search functions on this website are extremely valuable in this regard.

Jesus called us to be witnesses; not lawyers or judges.  If you enjoy polemics that is dandy but don't feel compelled to be argumentative.  Many of us have found it interesting and spiritually beneficial to simply learn about Islam as it is practiced by real 21st century people.  IslamiCity is a really good place for that, and I hope you enjoy your stay.


David C.
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AnnieTwo
 
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bullet Posted: 27 May 2006 at 11:21am
Originally posted by bmzsp

Are we sensing some insecurity here from you, Annie?


Not in the least.  My faith is rock solid.

Annie
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AnnieTwo
 
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bullet Posted: 27 May 2006 at 11:29am
Originally posted by DavidC

Hi AnnieTwo,

There are quite a few Christians here, myself incuded, but this is an *INTERFAITH* forum.  All discussion should reflect both Christianity AND Islam. 

Muslims do hold to the Bible as Christians do, and using biblical scripture to support your points is not convincing.  You need to find Islamic scripture or accepted history that supports your beliefs.  It is there and readily accessible.  The Qu'ran and Hadith search functions on this website are extremely valuable in this regard.

Jesus called us to be witnesses; not lawyers or judges.  If you enjoy polemics that is dandy but don't feel compelled to be argumentative.  Many of us have found it interesting and spiritually beneficial to simply learn about Islam as it is practiced by real 21st century people.  IslamiCity is a really good place for that, and I hope you enjoy your stay.




Hello David,

I'm sorry if you think I have been argumentative.  When we as Christians see our faith being misinterpreted and mocked, it is our duty to correct those views.  Wouldn't you agree?

I disagree with you that Muslims "hold to the Bible" unless I am misundestanding what you mean by that.  AbRah doesn't seem to like it much.  I believe the Qur'an gives much support for the past revelations in the Torah and in the Gospel of Jesus.

I also like to learn about Islam and I have from other sources, including Muslims.  I am looking to forward to some nice exchanges with the Muslims here.

Perhaps I got the wrong impression because of AbRah's posts.  I see that many people ignore them.  Maybe that is what I should do too.

Thanks.

Annie



Edited by AnnieTwo
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DavidC
 
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bullet Posted: 27 May 2006 at 12:23pm
There is tendency lately here for people to get into purely Christian arguments.  The overall purpose of our hosts is to allow people to educate themselves about Islam, and they have no problems with us bringing in Christianity for discussion in that context.

using biblical scripture to support your points is not convincing.
For instance?  What are you referring to exactly?


If a Muslim went to your Sunday School class to learn about Christianity, wouldn't you think it odd if he refused to read the Bible and used only the Qu'ran as scripture?  Or used only the Qu'ran to refute the Bible and what you were teaching?
 
David C.
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Mishmish
 
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bullet Posted: 27 May 2006 at 1:20pm

Originally posted by DavidC

There is tendency lately here for people to get into purely Christian arguments.  The overall purpose of our hosts is to allow people to educate themselves about Islam, and they have no problems with us bringing in Christianity for discussion in that context.

using biblical scripture to support your points is not convincing.
For instance?  What are you referring to exactly?


If a Muslim went to your Sunday School class to learn about Christianity, wouldn't you think it odd if he refused to read the Bible and used only the Qu'ran as scripture?  Or used only the Qu'ran to refute the Bible and what you were teaching?
 

Ah DavidC, you are a breath of fresh air at times. Thank you.

It is only with the heart that one can see clearly, what is essential is invisible to the eye. (The Little Prince)
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AnnieTwo
 
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bullet Posted: 27 May 2006 at 3:30pm
Originally posted by DavidC

There is tendency lately here for people to get into purely Christian arguments.  The overall purpose of our hosts is to allow people to educate themselves about Islam, and they have no problems with us bringing in Christianity for discussion in that context.

I understand that but this is an interfaith discussion board.  What that says to me is that Muslims want to learn about Christianity as much as Christians want to learn about Islam.  I have found that Muslims are thirsty for information about Christianity.  They don't understand it.  Christians need to help them understand what they don't understand.

using biblical scripture to support your points is not convincing.
For instance?  What are you referring to exactly?


If a Muslim went to your Sunday School class to learn about Christianity, wouldn't you think it odd if he refused to read the Bible and used only the Qu'ran as scripture?  Or used only the Qu'ran to refute the Bible and what you were teaching?

Yes, I would think it odd, but I would expect him to listen to what the Sunday School teacher had to say and I would expect him to compare the verses in the Qur'an with the verses in the Holy Bible and try to understand why they conflict with each other.  We are not in Sunday School here.  We are in very advanced Bible and Qur'an study.  The Qur'an and the Holy Bible contradict each other.  We need to dig into those differences and we need to do it in a very sensitive and respectful way.  Otherwise the exchanges here are superficial and will get us no where to bridging the gap between our two religions.  This is of paramount concern in the times in which we are living now.
 
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AbRah2006
 
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bullet Posted: 27 May 2006 at 9:44pm

[QUOTE=AnnieTwo] AbRah2006,

Once again you fail to see the contradiction of the NT eventhough I presents very clear biblical contradictions: Acts 10:39  and Acts 5:30 claimed that Jesus was  hanged on a tree  VERSUS Mark 15:32  and Matthew 27:41 that claimed that Jesus was crucified on the cross!

And once again I see no contradictions.  I only see your misinterpretation and your lack of knowledge.

The cross was made out of a tree.  I believe that it is Acts 5:30 that refers back to the Old Testament where it talks about the curse of hanging on a tree.  You are misinterpreting what you are reading.

My response: Is a tree a cross to you or is a cross a tree to you? Let me define what tree and cross are:

What is a tree?

Perennial woody plant with a single main stem (the trunk, or bole) from which branches and twigs extend to form a characteristic crown of foliage. In general, a tree differs from a shrub in that it has a single trunk, it reaches a greater height at maturity, it branches at a greater distance from the ground, and it increases in size by producing new branches and expanding in girth while a shrub often produces new shoots from ground level. Trees fall into three major divisions: angiosperms, gymnosperms, and pteridophytes. Angiosperms are the most common type, where seeds carried in various fruits are the agents of reproduction. Trees and shrubs may be deciduous, with broad leaves that are shed at the end of the growing season, or evergreen (see conifer), with needlelike or scalelike leaves that are shed at intervals of between 2 and 10 years, thus maintaining green foliage at all seasons. Trees are identified both by the characteristic color and shape of the leaf and by their overall appearance, e.g., the degree and angle of branching, the shape of the crown, and the texture of the bark. Their age can be determined from a count of the annual rings, which represent the diameter growth of a tree each year. Besides their enormous importance in providing oxygen and moisture for the atmosphere and removing harmful carbon dioxide, trees are an important source of food, of wood, and of numerous products (e.g., resins, rubber, quinine, turpentine, and cellulose for the manufacture of paper and various synthetic materials) derived from their wood, bark, leaves, and fruits.

What is a cross? A cross is a geometrical figure consisting of two lines or bars intersecting each other at a 90° angle, dividing one or two of the lines in half. The lines usually run vertically and horizontally; if they run diagonally, the design is technically termed a saltire.

Conclusion: The cross is not the tree and the tree is not the cross! Therefore the NT contradicts itself about the so-called 'crucifixion of Jesus' by saying that Jesus was hanged on a tree or crucified on the Cross!

AnnieTwo's statement: I haven't read all of your posts, but only a few and I am wondering if you are secure in your faith because you seem very insecure.  Are you?

My response: You are contradicting yourself by saying such thing to me. You said that you had not read all of my posts but you claimed that I was very insecure. How did you know? You are prejudging me! I am very secure for I am a Muslim and I worship Allah the true God!

No, I am not contradicting myself.  Do you see contradictions EVERYWHERE?  LOL

My response: Read your own statements and the my posts!

I noticed some of your posts because they are very long and full of colors and you continually blast Christianity.  Your posts stand out.  I read a couple and ignored the rest of what I saw.  I guessed that you were insecure of your religion because you seem to need to put another religion down.  That usually comes from insecurity.

My response:

You are prejudging me by your own action. I quote your statement:Your posts stand out.  I read a couple and ignored the rest of what I saw.  I guessed that you were insecure of your religion because you seem to need to put another religion down.  That usually comes from insecurity.

How can you accuse me of insecurity when you yourself ignore the rests of my posts? Lol...you are the one who feel insecure so you avoid my posts!

My response: I have made so many researches about Christianity so I understand it very well! I will try my best to expose the corruption of Christianity! It is my pleasure to help you on this very site!

Have you ever studied the Holy Bible under a Christian tutor?  I would guess not since you make so many mistakes. 

My response: What mistakes? I quote the OT and NT to refute your statements! Do you mean that your OT and NT are full of mistakes?  I think so. I have been debating against your missionaries and priests for years so meeting you is not a surprise to me. Note: I accept some contents of the OT and NT that do not contradict Islam as truth and I reject the contents of the NT and OT that contradict Islam. 

Why are you so intent to try to discredit Christianity?  Where are you coming from and why do you care?

My response:

It is the Christians such as Jerry Vines (of Southern Baptist Convention), Pat Robertson (of 700 Club), Jerry Falwell (of Christian Moral Majority) and Franklin Graham (of Samaritan’s Purse), all known for their bigotry degrade, insult and slander Islam in the media and on the internet everyday. And Christians are invading Muslim nations and massacring innocent Muslim babies, children, women, elderly people and unarmed men in Iraq, Afghanistan etc. The Christian actions reflect their beliefs! I have studied the OT and NT and I find that there are so many errors, contradictions etc in them! The holy Quran also say that the Bible is illegally altered by its keepers! Therefore it is my duty to expose the corruption of the Bible and Christians who insult, slander, and degrade Islam everyday!

I leave you to your religion and you should leave the Christians to their's.  Doesn't your Qur'an say something like that?

My response: Christians like Jerry Vines (of Southern Baptist Convention), Pat Robertson (of 700 Club), Jerry Falwell (of Christian Moral Majority) and Franklin Graham (of Samaritan’s Purse), all known for their bigotry are slandering, insulting and degrading Islam so why don't you ask them to stop doing that?



Edited by AbRah2006
God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)
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BMZ
 
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bullet Posted: 28 May 2006 at 9:18am

Annie,

The question is: Is the Bible the Word of God?

The entire Bible is not the word of God. All the books have been writen by narrators or authors. No one really knows even the surnames of the authors.

The Bible contains The Old Testament and the New Testament. As the names imply, the OT of Christians, which is not theirs really, is old and it is clearly suggested that the New Testament is THE TESTAMENT. 

As a Muslim when I read the entire Bible, I can find the Torah parts scattered in the OT and the Injeel parts scattered in the NT. You must understand that Qur'aan does not use the term Bible at all. Yes, Qur'aan knew that the Jews and Christians had their Scriptures with them which they are still having. Qur'aan also knew well that that the Jews did not recognise the OT of the Christians as the Jews have their own Holy Scriptures. The Jewish Scriptures, of course do not have NT with them. Qur'aan knew that too.

It is not therefore right to say that the Bible is the Scripture for either the Jews or the Christians because one cannot believe in one part of the book while one denies the other part of the book. In this reagrd, it would have been a different matter if the bible had no OT and no NT and had remained the Bible in it's truest sense. One can find the words of God in the Bible but most of it are narrations and stories told by men.

If two books form part of a Holy Scripture, both have to be fully functional and applicable. Even, your goodself is prejudiced with the OT and it's readings, which have been made redundant because you have an NT, while you use the OT only to find prophecies and satements to suit and justify purposes, prophecies and claims, which you don't have in the NT.

It is as simple as that. If NT had fulfilled everything, people and learned men from various deserts and fertile lands,would not have been discussing Jesus and who he truly was, in Greek for almost four hundred years. Not just that, there is now a revival of that study by modern Western scholars themselves! Muslims just don't have any problem with Jesus. They are a happy lot as far as Jesus is concerned. Jesus is their Prophet.  



Edited by bmzsp
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