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Message Icon Topic: Is the Bible the Word of God?(Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post Reply Post New Topic
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b)There were some things that Jesus didn't tell them. John 16:12: I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

4)Did Peter ask Jesus where he was going?

a)John 3:22  After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.

b)John 4:2 Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples.

5)When did Jesus curse the fig tree? a)Before driving the merchants from the temple. Mark 11:12-17 or b)After driving the merchants from the temple. Matthew 21:12 and Matthew 21:17-19

6) To whom did Jesus make his first post-resurrection appearance?a)The two Marys Matthew 28:1, 9 , (b)Mary Magdalene Mark 16:9    (c)Cleopas and another Luke 24:13-31 or (d)Cephas 1 Corinthians 15:4-5

My comment: Why does the NT contradict itself? If the NT is right about the so-called 'crucifixion of Jesus' , why must it make contradictory statements about it? The crucifixion of Jesus did not happen so the NT gives us contradictory statements!

7)God is tired and rests
         Ex 31:17/ Jer 15:6
        God is never tired and never rests
         Is 40:28
8)God is seen and heard
         Ex 33:23/ Ex 33:11/ Gen 3:9,10/ Gen 32:30/ Is 6:1/
          Ex 24:9-11
        God is invisible and cannot be heard
         John 1:18/ John 5:37/ Ex 33:20/ 1 Tim 6:16
9)God is everywhere present, sees and knows all things
         Prov 15:3/ Ps 139:7-10/ Job 34:22,21
        God is not everywhere present, neither sees nor knows all     
        things
         Gen 11:5/ Gen 18:20,21/ Gen 3:8
10) God knows the hearts of men
         Acts 1:24/ Ps 139:2,3
        God tries men to find out what is in their heart
         Deut 13:3/ Deut 8:2/ Gen 22:12
11) God is all powerful
         Jer 32:27/ Matt 19:26
       God is not all powerful
         Judg 1:19
12) God is unchangeable
         James 1:17/ Mal 3:6/ Ezek 24:14/ Num 23:19
        God is changeable
         Gen 6:6/ Jonah 3:10/ 1 Sam 2:30,31/ 2 Kings 20:1,4,5,6/
          Ex 33:1,3,17,14

Hey George...The biblical verses above contradict each other. Does God contradict Himself or change His mind? Allah will not contradict His own Word nor change His mind for God is the All Wise so it seems to me that the Bible is corrupted by the keepers of the Bible! Therefore the Bible is not the Word of God!



Edited by AbRah2006
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Angela
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bullet Posted: 26 May 2006 at 12:24pm
Originally posted by AbRah2006

Islam has declared fornication (which by definition in Islam includes adultery) unlawful, and it goes to great lengths to make it repugnant by sanction and deterrent. It has even gone so far as to make any alliances of this type of unlawful sexual relationship a heinous sin and an odious offence. In other words, sexual relations of any kind, that fall outside of lawful marriage, are absolutely forbidden. For example: 

"Nor come nigh to adultery for it is a shameful (deed) and an evil, opening the road (to other evils)." [Qur'an 17:32]

In Islam we are not allowed to harm ourselves. Islam encourages us to marry to control our sexual urges .

One of the benefits of marriage is to be safe from the machinations of the devil and to satisfy lust and hence protect the private parts. The Prophet said: "If a man marries, half of his religion is saved. Fear God for the remaining half." The Prophet said: "Whoever among you is able to marry, should marry, and whoever is not able to marry, is recommended to fast, for fasting diminishes his sexual power." The pleasure which lies within sexual intercourse is an example of happiness in the afterlife. There is no benefit derived from a thing in which there is no pleasure.

"And among His Signs is this, that He created for you mates from among yourselves, that ye may dwell in tranquillity with them, and He has put love and mercy between your (hearts). Verily in that are Signs for those who reflect." [Qur'an 30:21] 

"And those who pray, "Our Lord! Grant unto us wives and offspring who will be the comfort of our eyes, and give us (the grace) to lead the righteous." [Qur'an 25:74] 

If we can't afford to marry, Islam asks us to fast to control our sexual urges. The Prophet said: "Whoever among you is able to marry, should marry, and whoever is not able to marry, is recommended to fast, for fasting diminishes his sexual power." If we can overcome our sexual urges then it will a big success to us and Allah will reward us for trying to control our sexual urges. 

 Castration is  not a way to heaven for it cannot stop you from committing other sins. We will go to heaven if we Muslims obey God and His messenger the prophet Muhammad.

First of "Islam" wasn't the first to make it a sin to fornicate.  The Torah/Old Testament did that.  The Quran just upheld what had already been revealed.  Secondly, if fasting was all it took for all men to avoid fornication....then it wouldn't be the problem it is all over the world.  Not just in the West.  Thirdly, of course castration is not going to stop you from other types of sin, which is why its not practiced or accepted.  You still can't seem to get the difference between the passage commenting on something that was happening and actual doctrine.  The bible isn't like the Quran....its not all commandment.  Certainly, men are not allowed to murder their neighbors just to marry their wives, yet that is in the Old Testament.  Certainly we are not to worship pagan gods, but the priests of Baal appear in the Bible.  Not everything in the Bible is Doctrine, some of it is just History.

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bullet Posted: 26 May 2006 at 9:15pm
George's statement:

AbRah2006,

Yes, the Bible is the Word of God.  The Qur'an confirms the former revelations of God.

Just because you are unable to interpret Scriptures and find "inaccuracies" and "contradictions" does not mean that there are any.

BTW:  Remember the Surah in your Qur'an that says if you are in doubt that you should ask the Christians?  I think Allah means for you to listen to us.

------------------------------------------------------------ ---

My answer: There are so many errors, absurdities and contradictions in the Bible but you are so arrogant to admit them. I will show you some of the so many :

The absurdities, errors and contradiction of the NT and OT:

1)Who buried Jesus?

a) Joseph of Arimathaea (Matthew 27:57-60)  (b)Joseph of Arimataea and Nicodemus (John 19:38-42) or (c) The Jews and their rulers (Acts 13:27-29) ....Why does the NT contradict itself? If the NT is right about the so-called 'crucifixion of Jesus' , why must it make contradictory statements about it? The crucifixion of Jesus did not happen so the NT gives us contradictory statements!

2)Did Jesus forewarn the apostles of his death and resurrection?

a) Yes, he did. Matthew 20:18-19 or (b) No, he did not. John 20:9

3)Did Jesus tell his disciples everything?

a)Jesus told his disciples everything. John 15:15:For all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.

God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)
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bullet Posted: 26 May 2006 at 9:25pm
Hey what has happened to my statement above? It has splitted into two parts !!!! I wonder what is happening.

Edited by AbRah2006
God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)
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bullet Posted: 26 May 2006 at 10:42pm
George's statement:

AbRah2006,

Yes, the Bible is the Word of God.  The Qur'an confirms the former revelations of God.

Just because you are unable to interpret Scriptures and find "inaccuracies" and "contradictions" does not mean that there are any.

BTW:  Remember the Surah in your Qur'an that says if you are in doubt that you should ask the Christians?  I think Allah means for you to listen to us.

------------------------------------------------------------ -----

My response:

Quran 16:36 For We assuredly sent amongst every People an apostle, (with the Command), "Serve God, and eschew Evil": of the People were some whom God guided, and some on whom error became inevitably (established). So travel through the earth, and see what was the end of those who denied (the Truth).

Surah 3 - Ali 'Imran - THE FAMILY OF 'IMRAN

003.001 Alif, Lam, Mim.

003.002 God! There is no god but He,-the Living, the Self-Subsisting, Eternal.

003.003 It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgement between right and wrong).

Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.s.) (Salallahu ‘alayhi wa salam, meaning: May the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) was Allâh's  great Prophet and Messenger   like Jesus, the Son of Mary.  The Prophet's mission, however, is universal. Allah (S.W.T.)    (Subhanahu wa ta’ala, meaning: the Exalted, Most Glorious) tells mankind that Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.s.) is no more than a Messenger (Qur’an 3: 144), the unlettered Prophet who believes in Him and His Words (Qur’an 7: 158).  He is the Seal of the Prophets and the true universal Messenger of Allâh to the whole mankind (Qur’an 33: 40). Allah (S.W.T.), the All-Mighty, makes this very clear:

"We have not sent you (O Muhammad) but as a universal (Messenger) to men giving them glad tidings and warning them (against sin) but most men understand not." (Qurân 34: 28)

For our guidance, Allah (S.W.T.), the All-Mighty commands us to believe and obey His Messenger (s.a.w.s.):

"Say (O Muhammad to mankind): “If you (really) love Allâh then follow me (i.e. accept Islâmic Monotheism, follow the Qur’ªn and the Sunnah), Allâh will love you and forgive you your sins. And Allâh is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.” Say (O Muhammad): “Obey Allâh and the Messenger (Muhammad).” But if they turn away, then Allâh does not like the disbelievers." (Qur’an 3: 31)

"O mankind! Verily, there has come to you the Messenger (Muhammad) with the truth from your Rabb (Sustainer). So believe in him, it is better for you. But if you disbelieve, then certainly to Allâh belongs all that is in the heavens and the earth. And Allâh is Ever All-Knowing, All-Wise." (Qurân 4: 170)

"O you who believe! Obey Allâh, and obey the Messenger (Muhammad) and render not vain your deeds." (Qurân 47: 33)

Question: Why did God send Muhammad and the Quran to all mankind after Moses, the Torah, Jesus and injeel etc?

We Muslims believe that Allah Almighty did send the Torah (Old Testament or the Law) to the Jews, but they then corrupted this Holy Message;  "We (Allah) certainly gave the Book To Moses, but differences arose therein:  had it not been That a Word had gone forth Before from thy Lord, the matter Would have been decided Between them:  but they Are in suspicious doubt Concerning it.  (The Noble Quran, 11:110)"  

The original Message of the Torah (Old Testament) was still around during Muhammad's (peace be upon him) time.  But because the Jews had so much controversies, disputes and age-old prejudices among themselves, they ended up losing the entire original message.  Please keep in mind that the Jews were divided into several tribes before Islam, and those tribes had so much problems.  They never had One True Judaism as many Christians mistakenly believe.  That is why the Jews massacred each others before and brought themselves from 11 tribes to only 2 (Judea and Samara located in what we call today West Bank Palestine) due to all of the blood shed that took place between them.  A total of 9 tribes were completely wiped out.  That is why "differences arose therein....."   Allah Almighty promised hell to those Jews who caused the corruption of the Original Torah; "Know they not Allah Knoweth what they [the Jews] conceal and what they reveal? And there are among them [the Jews] illiterates, who know not the Book [the Old Testament], but (see therein their own) desires, and they do nothing but conjecture.  Then woe to those who write the Book [Old Testament] with their own hands, and then say: 'This is from Allah,' To traffic with it for a miserable price! Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby.   (The Noble Quran, 2:77-78)"  

As for the Christians and their Injil (New Testament), we Muslims believe that the Christians unintentionally had corrupted the Bible because they waited for too long to document it.  Some Christians believe that the Bible was documented 150 years after Jesus.  Others believe it took 300 years.  In either case, the gap is too big and no Christian can guarantee accuracy.  That is why you read in their current books and Gospels things such as "And Jesus said to Matthew....." instead of "And Jesus said to me [Matthew]...." and so on.  Cases similar to this example literally exist in most of the New Testament of today, where they prove that the New Testament was not even written by its original authors.  It was written by third party people, and their words are considered today the Word of GOD, which is wrong and sinful.  The Christian sects also believe in different number of Gospels when you compare them to each others.  The number of Books/Gospels in the Roman Catholics Bible for instance is different from the King James Version Bible, which is different in the number of Books/Gospels from the Jehovah's Witnesses Bible, which is different in the number of Books/Gospels from the Mormon's Bible, etc... Please visit History of man's corruption in the Bible for more details.  Today, there is no one Bible!.

Allah Almighty warned Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him from the false practices done by Jews and Christians:

"Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion. Say: 'The Guidance of God,-that is the (only) Guidance.' Wert thou to follow their desires after the knowledge which hath reached thee, then wouldst thou find neither Protector nor helper against God.  (The Noble Quran, 2:120)"

"They say: 'Become Jews or Christians if ye would be guided (To salvation).' Say thou: 'Nay! (I would rather) the Religion of Abraham the True, and he joined not gods with God.'  (The Noble Quran, 2:135)"

"Indeed they reject the truth, those that say "God is Christ, the son of Mary." For indeed, Christ said, worship God, who is my God and your God.  (The Holy Quran, 5:72)"

Trinity today, and the corruption of the Torah (The Law sent to the Jews) to prove that the Jews are the best people for all times and all places and the denial of Jesus peace be upon him and the many other false teachings are evidence of the false teachings and practices of the Christians and the Jews.

In general, we Muslims believe that the current Torah and Injil are mixed between the true Words of GOD Almighty and man's corruption.  We also believe that the Bible had more truth in it during Muhammad's (peace be upon him) time than what we have today.   That is why Allah Almighty was challenging some of the Jews and the Christians to refer to their Scriptures back then.

Even the Bible says that the Bible would be corrupted into a lie by the its keepers:

In Deuteronomy 31:25-29 Moses peace be upon him predicted the corruption/tampering of the Law (Bible) after his death.The Book of Moses predicted that the Law (Bible) will get corrupted.  The Book of Jeremiah which came approximately 826 years after did indeed confirm this corruption.

the entire Bible is corrupted and unreliable and is mostly filled with man-made laws and corruption!  GOD Almighty Said: "`How can you say, "We [the Jews] are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?' (From the NIV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)"

The Revised Standard Version makes it even clearer: "How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie(From the RSV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)"

In either translation, we clearly see that the Jews had so much corrupted the Bible with their man-made cultural laws, that they had turned the Bible into a lie!

The Noble Quran came to CONFIRM the Truth that exists in the Bible.  Allah Almighty NEVER claimed that the bible is fully and 100% Divine.  Islam is a witness on the Bible.  It filters out the truth from falsehood and corruption in the Bible.  The Noble Quran only recognizes the Bible as a HISTORY BOOK with errors and man's alteration in it.  Anything that agrees 100% with Islam is valid, and anything else that has even the slightest disagreement with Islam is discarded.

That is why we Muslims believe in only the parts of the Bible that agree with the Noble Quran.  The parts that contradict the Noble Quran are not the Truth:

"That they rejected Faith; That they uttered against Mary A grave false charge;  That they said (in boast):  'We killed Christ Jesus The son of Mary, The Messenger of Allah.'  But they killed him not, Nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjunction to follow, for of a surety they killed him not.  Nay, Allah raised him up Unto Himself; and Allah Is Exalted in Power, Wise.  And there is none of the people of the book (Jews and Christians) But must believe in him  (Jesus) Before his death; And on the Day of Judgment He (Jesus) will be a witness Against them.   (The Noble Quran, 4:156-159)"  

"Know they not Allah Knoweth what they conceal and what they reveal? And there are among them illiterates, who know not the Book (i.e., the Bible), but (see therein their own) desires, and they do nothing but conjecture.  Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say: 'This is from Allah,' To traffic with it for a miserable price! Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby.   (The Noble Quran, 2:77-78)"

"O Apostle! let not those grieve thee, who race each other into unbelief: (whether it be) among those who say "We believe" with their lips but whose hearts have no faith; or it be among the Jews,- men who will listen to any lie,- will listen even to others who have never so much as come to thee. They change the words from their (right) times and places: they say, 'If ye are given this, take it, but if not, beware!' If any one's trial is intended by God, thou hast no authority in the least for him against God. For such - it is not God's will to purify their hearts. For them there is disgrace in this world, and in the Hereafter a heavy punishment.  (The Noble Quran, 5:41)"

Source: http://www.answering-christianity.com/que9.htm

God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)
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bullet Posted: 26 May 2006 at 11:02pm
God is the author of the original Torah that was sent to Moses, Injeel to Jesus and Quran to Muhammad so they bear some simmilarities.Therefore you are wrong if you say that Quran is a copy of the Bible and Torah for bearing some simmilarities. However the Torah and Bible were corrupted by their keepers so God sent the Holy Quran to all mankind to replace the books.
God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)
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bullet Posted: 27 May 2006 at 3:37am

George's statement:

AbRah2006,

Yes, the Bible is the Word of God.  The Qur'an confirms the former revelations of God.

Just because you are unable to interpret Scriptures and find "inaccuracies" and "contradictions" does not mean that there are any.

BTW:  Remember the Surah in your Qur'an that says if you are in doubt that you should ask the Christians?  I think Allah means for you to listen to us.

------------------------------------------------------------ ---

My answer: There are so many errors, absurdities and contradictions in the Bible but you are so arrogant to admit them. I will show you some of the so many :

The absurdities, errors and contradiction of the NT and OT:

1) Who buried Jesus?  a) Joseph of Arimathaea (Matthew 27:57-60)  (b)Joseph of Arimataea and Nicodemus (John 19:38-42) or (c) The Jews and their rulers (Acts 13:27-29) ....Why does the NT contradict itself? If the NT is right about the so-called 'crucifixion of Jesus' , why must it make contradictory statements about it? The crucifixion of Jesus did not happen so the NT gives us contradictory statements!

2)Did Jesus forewarn the apostles of his death and resurrection? a) Yes, he did. Matthew 20:18-19 or (b) No, he did not. John 20:9

3)Did Jesus tell his disciples everything?

a) Jesus told his disciples everything. John 15:15:For all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.

b)There were some things that Jesus didn't tell them. John 16:12: I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

4)Did Peter ask Jesus where he was going?

a)John 3:22  After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.

b)John 4:2 Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples.

5)When did Jesus curse the fig tree? a)Before driving the merchants from the temple. Mark 11:12-17 or b)After driving the merchants from the temple. Matthew 21:12 and Matthew 21:17-19

6) To whom did Jesus make his first post-resurrection appearance? a)The two Marys Matthew 28:1, 9 , (b)Mary Magdalene Mark 16:9    (c) Cleopas and another Luke 24:13-31 or (d) Cephas 1 Corinthians 15:4-5

My comment: Why does the NT contradict itself? If the NT is right about the so-called 'crucifixion of Jesus' , why must it make contradictory statements about it? The crucifixion of Jesus did not happen so the NT gives us contradictory statements!

7)God is tired and rests
         Ex 31:17/ Jer 15:6
        God is never tired and never rests
         Is 40:28
8)God is seen and heard
         Ex 33:23/ Ex 33:11/ Gen 3:9,10/ Gen 32:30/ Is 6:1/
          Ex 24:9-11
        God is invisible and cannot be heard
         John 1:18/ John 5:37/ Ex 33:20/ 1 Tim 6:16
9)God is everywhere present, sees and knows all things
         Prov 15:3/ Ps 139:7-10/ Job 34:22,21
        God is not everywhere present, neither sees nor knows all     
        things
         Gen 11:5/ Gen 18:20,21/ Gen 3:8
10) God knows the hearts of men
         Acts 1:24/ Ps 139:2,3
        God tries men to find out what is in their heart
         Deut 13:3/ Deut 8:2/ Gen 22:12
11) God is all powerful
         Jer 32:27/ Matt 19:26
       God is not all powerful
         Judg 1:19
12) God is unchangeable
         James 1:17/ Mal 3:6/ Ezek 24:14/ Num 23:19
        God is changeable
         Gen 6:6/ Jonah 3:10/ 1 Sam 2:30,31/ 2 Kings 20:1,4,5,6/
          Ex 33:1,3,17,14

Hey George...The biblical verses above contradict each other. Does God contradict Himself or change His mind? Allah will not contradict His own Word nor change His mind for God is the All Wise so it seems to me that the Bible is corrupted by the keepers of the Bible! Therefore the Bible is not the Word of God!

 

God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)
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bullet Posted: 27 May 2006 at 4:36am
AbRah2006,

I understand why you are confused.  I studied what you claim as contradictions in the Bible and found none.  It is a matter of knowing what is being said and why.  And also as far as the gospels knowing that the gospel writers had many sources for what they presented.  Some witnesses may have seen things that others didn't.  Some witnesses saw things differently.  This is sort of like witnesses to an accident.  Every detail does not match up but it is the important elements that matter.

For instance, all gospels say that Jesus died and rose again. 

I also wonder why you post so much about what you think are contradictions in Christianity.  Why not concentrate on telling us why you are a muslim and what Islam has meant to you and how it has changed your life for the better in your own words?

Annie




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bullet Posted: 27 May 2006 at 4:56am

Greetings & Welcome, Annie

"And also as far as the gospels knowing that the gospel writers had many sources for what they presented.  Some witnesses may have seen things that others didn't.  Some witnesses saw things differently.  This is sort of like witnesses to an accident.  Every detail does not match up but it is the important elements that matter."

I agree with you on that and it was a big accident indeed!

"For instance, all gospels say that Jesus died and rose again."

I think AbRah does not know the details of that incident, the "accident" well.   I am trying to explain that to him and others. I believe there are too many stories told about the accident and no matter what the stories were or how were they reported, Jesus was saved by God in the end. I am happy about that.

Best Regards

BMZ

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