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Interfaith Dialogue
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Message Icon Topic: Is the Bible the Word of God?(Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post Reply Post New Topic
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Patty
 
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bullet Posted: 03 June 2006 at 1:26pm

George said:

"How is your father doing?

Peace"

He is stable right now.  He is in God's hands, and what a wonderful place to be.  My father is ready to meet God, he has made his peace, and he's been such a wonderful example for me.  (Although I could never be half as intelligent, loving, and kind as my father is.)  Now I need to accept the inevitable....I doubt it will be much longer.  I'm crying a lot (typical daughter.)  Thanks so much for asking, George!

God's Blessings and Peace.

Patty

I don't know what the future holds....but I know who holds the future.
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AbRah2006
 
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bullet Posted: 03 June 2006 at 6:55pm
[QUOTE=Patty]

Dear AbRah,

Here is what I actually said to you:

"You come across like a rabid dog."

I never said you WERE a rabid dog, but that your constant yelling and rudeness makes you appear as a rabid dog would appear. 

 

My response: I see how you contradict your own words that end up calling me a rabid dog. Is it the morality of Christianity to call me a rabid dog? However Jesus calls you a dog and Jesus call all the non-Jews the dogs:

"A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, 'Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is suffering terribly from demon-possession.  Jesus did not answer a word.  So his disciples came to him and urged him, 'Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us.'  He [Jesus] answered, 'I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.'  The woman came and knelt before him.   'Lord, help me!' she said.  He [Jesus] replied 'It is not right to take the children's [Jews] bread [blessings and miracles reserved for them] and toss it to their dogs [the Gentiles].'  'Yes, Lord' she said, 'but even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters' table." Matthew 15:22-28

So now you are following Jesus of the Bible by calling me a rabid dog! I am not a dog for I am a Muslim. If you believe in the NT then Jesus of the NT says you are a dog for being a non-Jew. Your rules do not exclude yourself from being called a dog by Jesus of the NT!

God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)
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AbRah2006
 
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bullet Posted: 03 June 2006 at 6:58pm
Originally posted by Patty

George said:

"How is your father doing?

Peace"

He is stable right now.  He is in God's hands, and what a wonderful place to be.  My father is ready to meet God, he has made his peace, and he's been such a wonderful example for me.  (Although I could never be half as intelligent, loving, and kind as my father is.)  Now I need to accept the inevitable....I doubt it will be much longer.  I'm crying a lot (typical daughter.)  Thanks so much for asking, George!

God's Blessings and Peace.

***EDITED***



Edited by Mishmish
God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)
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AbRah2006
 
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bullet Posted: 03 June 2006 at 7:06pm
Originally posted by Patty

This is what the Roman Catholic Church believes about people from other religions, as far as going to heaven:

The church takes an partly inclusive position towards non-Catholic faiths. A commentary on a Vatican II document the "Dogmatic Constitution on the Church - Lumen Gentium." reads:

"The non-Christian may not be blamed for his ignorance of Christ and his Church; salvation is open to him also, if he seeks God sincerely and if he follows the commands of his conscience, for through this means the Holy Ghost acts upon all men; this divine action is not confined within the limited boundaries of the visible [Roman Catholic] Church."

the saving blood of Christ is retroactive, eternal, for every human ever lived on earth.

    And there is no respect of persons for God, He will judge anyone by the same measure of love, the only measure of faith in God, the love to God and to our neighbors.

    In the general judgment, Jesus will not ask, were you a Christian or a Jew or a Muslim?... He will only say, `Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.' "Then the righteous will answer him, `Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?' "The King will reply, `I tell you the truth, whatever you did to one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did to me.'    

 "Then he will say to those on his left, `Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.' "They also will answer, `Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?' "He will reply, `I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do to one of the least of these, you did not do to me.'  

"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life." ... and it will be the same words for a Christian or a Jew or an Indian... For God does not show favoritism. (Rom.2:11).

In God there is no partiality, no favoritism, no respect of persons... He uses the same measure to judge Jews and Christians and Muslims and Hindus and Indians... He uses to each one the same measure, the measure of love, the good or bad deeds we do in this period of test on earth.

The only measure of faith is love, the good or bad works we did with the gift of faith, as in Abraham, whose faith is was measured by his deeds, he even was ready to kill his own beloved son Isaac, because of his faith in God, that's the real good saving faith expressing itself through love. (Gal.5:6).

I believe this shows that God loves each one of us.  We are His children.  So why do we have any hatred amongst each other?  He clearly states he loves us, and I for one cannot imagine worshipping a God who hates half of the people he created!  Fortunately, that is not the case....as is explained in the above reference.

God's Peace.

 

My response: I am surprised to see how the Christians ignore the teachings of Jesus of the NT by making the statements above that to ignore Jesus' command. This is how the Christians corrupt the Bible in the long term. Patty's statements above are invadlidated by the NT below:

See what your NT says about non-Christians:

  2John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. 2 John 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son 2John 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed.

Non-Christians are deceivers and antichrists according to your New Testament and Christians are not allowed to associate with non-Christians. Don't receive them into your house or even exchange greeting with them. This is the biblical justification for "Disfellowshipping" among the Jehovah's Witnesses.

2) "Surely thou will slay the wicked, O God: depart from me therefore, ye bloody men. For they speak against thee wickedly, and thine enemies take thy name in vain. Do not I hate them, O LORD, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee? I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies." (Psalms 139:19-22)

 According to the Bible Jesus told us to "Love your enemies; bless them that curse you," but ignored his own advice by repeatedly denouncing his opposition.  Matthew 23:17 ("Ye fools and blind"), Matthew 12:34 ("0 generation of vipers"), and Matthew 23:27 (". . . hypocrites . . . ye are like unto whited sepulchres. . .") are excellent examples of the contradictions of the Bible!

All I see here is the contradiction between the church and Jesus of the NT!

 

God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)
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AbRah2006
 
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bullet Posted: 04 June 2006 at 8:49am

                              The Holy Quran Al Mâ'idah
                              Surah 5. The Table Spread

8. O ye who believe! stand out firmly for Allah, as witnesses to fair dealing, and let not the hatred of others to you make you swerve to wrong and depart from justice. Be just: that is next to piety: and fear Allah. For Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do.

9. To those who believe and do deeds of righteousness hath Allah promised forgiveness and a great reward.

10. Those who reject faith and deny our signs will be companions of Hell-fire.

11. O ye who believe! Call in remembrance the favour of Allah unto you when certain men formed the design to stretch out their hands against you, but (Allah) held back their hands from you: so fear Allah. And on Allah let believers put (all) their trust.

12. Allah did aforetime take a covenant from the Children of Israel, and we appointed twelve captains among them. And Allah said: "I am with you: if ye (but) establish regular prayers, practise regular charity, believe in my apostles, honour and assist them, and loan to Allah a beautiful loan, verily I will wipe out from you your evils, and admit you to gardens with rivers flowing beneath; but if any of you, after this, resisteth faith, he hath truly wandered from the path or rectitude."

13. But because of their breach of their covenant, We cursed them, and made their hearts grow hard; they change the words from their (right) places and forget a good part of the message that was sent them, nor wilt thou cease to find them- barring a few - ever bent on (new) deceits: but forgive them, and overlook (their misdeeds): for Allah loveth those who are kind.

14. From those, too, who call themselves Christians, We did take a covenant, but they forgot a good part of the message that was sent them: so we estranged them, with enmity and hatred between the one and the other, to the day of judgment. And soon will Allah show them what it is they have done.

15. O people of the Book! There hath come to you our Messenger, revealing to you much that ye used to hide in the Book, and passing over much (that is now unnecessary). There hath come to you from Allah a (new) light and a perspicuous Book,-

16. Wherewith Allah guideth all who seek His good pleasure to ways of peace and safety, and leadeth them out of darkness, by His will, unto the light,- guideth them to a path that is straight.

17. In blasphemy indeed are those that say that Allah is Christ the son of Mary. Say: "Who then hath the least power against Allah, if His will were to destroy Christ the son of Mary, his mother, and all every - one that is on the earth? For to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between. He createth what He pleaseth. For Allah hath power over all things."

18. (Both) the Jews and the Christians say: "We are sons of Allah, and his beloved." Say: "Why then doth He punish you for your sins? Nay, ye are but men,- of the men he hath created: He forgiveth whom He pleaseth, and He punisheth whom He pleaseth: and to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between: and unto Him is the final goal (of all)"

19. O People of the Book! Now hath come unto you, making (things) clear unto you, Our Messenger, after the break in (the series of) our apostles, lest ye should say: "There came unto us no bringer of glad tidings and no warner (from evil)": But now hath come unto you a bringer of glad tidings and a warner (from evil). And Allah hath power over all things.

God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)
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Patty
 
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bullet Posted: 04 June 2006 at 10:48am

AbRah said,

"Non-Christians are deceivers and antichrists according to your New Testament and Christians are not allowed to associate with non-Christians."

No, you are sadly mistaken.  Never once does the New Testament say the "non-Christians" are the deceivers and/or the antichrist.  The New Testament is referring to those who are truly evil people.  We've all known them.  Some of them are supposedly Christians...although they are not following the life of a true Christian.  There are evil people in every part of the world, in every religion, and with no religion.  This is what the New Testament is referring to.  There is no place it specifically states non-Christians are deceivers.  None at all.

ONE MORE TIME....I did NOT call you a rabid dog.  You are just looking for sympathy, AbRah.  I said you were "ACTING" like a rabid dog.  There!  Do you even understand the difference?  For example, if I said George is coming across like a stupid monkey, that doesn't mean I am saying "George is a stupid monkey".  It means I feel he is acting as a stupid monkey would act.  Do you get the difference now? If not, so be it.  It's up to you what you choose to believe.  I'm through trying to explain my words to you, when you are determined to twist them and not believe them anyway.

And I would appreciate it if anyone with a grain of understanding would help me out with this.  Do the rest of you understand what I was saying?  If you do, why not say so??

God's Peace,

 

Patty

I don't know what the future holds....but I know who holds the future.
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Patty
 
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bullet Posted: 04 June 2006 at 10:53am

AbRah,

I noticed you made an unacceptable comment about my dying father. Mishmish edited it.  Since you are so full of hatred for me (for no good reason), this is the one thing you have done which really hurts me very deeply.  I trust this will make you happy.....you have achieved your goal.

May Allah/God Bless You with Wisdom.

Patty

I don't know what the future holds....but I know who holds the future.
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Mishmish
 
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bullet Posted: 04 June 2006 at 11:16am
***This topic is being closed***
It is only with the heart that one can see clearly, what is essential is invisible to the eye. (The Little Prince)
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