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AbRah2006
 
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bullet Topic: Is the Bible the Word of God?
    Posted: 25 May 2006 at 8:57am
In Islam Jesus is God’s Word means that Jesus received injeel that contained the Word of God from God. Other prophets of God such as Moses and Muhammad received the Word of God in the form of the Torah and Quran respectively.

If you and other Christians claim that the OT and NT are the Word of God, then you are wrong for they contain so many errrors and contradictions.Would you attribute those errors to God and Jesus? If the Bible contained conflicting verses would you still consider it to be Holy and the Word of God? Most likely you will say of course not.

I will give you some examples of the corruption of the Bible to support my statement:

1)The God of the Bible allows slavery, including selling your own daughter as a sex slave (Exodus 21:1-11), child abuse (Judges 11:29-40) and Isaiah 13:16), and bashing babies against rocks (Hosea 13:16 & Psalms 137:9).          ; ; ;  Question: Would you attribute those brutal teachings to Allah(God) and Jesus? 

2)Jesus also promoted the idea that all men should castrate themselves to go to heaven:  "For there are eunuchs, that were so born from their mother's womb: and there are eunuchs, that were made eunuchs by men: and there are eunuchs, that made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it."  (Matthew 19:12 ASV)

Question: Why don't you Christians castrate yourselves so that you can go to heaven? Would you attribute those brutal teachings to Allah(God) and Jesus? 

3)The Biblical Pornography"Yet she multiplied her whoredoms, in calling to remembrance the days of her youth, wherein she had played the harlot in the land of Egypt. For she doted upon their paramours, whose flesh is as the flesh of asses, and whose issue is like the issue of horses." (Ezekiel 23: 19-21)

"and lusted after her paramours there, whose members were like those of donkeys, and whose emission was like that of stallions." (Ezekiel 23: 21, NRSV)Questions: why does God have to describe their adventures in such pornographic detail? Does God love porn?

What parent would want their children reading verse 21 about comparing the size of men's penises to donkey genitals and the sperm flow to that of horse issues?

As any adult religious parent might believe, such lustful descriptions, if culled from secular sources, would corrupt children should they happen to read them. Should it not also corrupt children if read from the Bible?

Would you attribute those pornographic teachings to Allah(God) and Jesus? 

4)Eat Human Feces!

"And thou shalt eat it as barley cakes, and thou shalt bake it with dung that cometh out of man, in their sight. And the LORD said, Even thus shall the children of Israel eat their defiled bread among the Gentiles, whither I will drive them." (Ezekiel 4:12-13)

Question: How many good Christians today realize that their God has coprophilic tendencies? Would you attribute this teaching to Allah(God) and Jesus? 

5)Eating Dung And Drinking Piss

"But Rabshakeh said unto them, Hath my master sent me to thy master, and to thee, to speak these words? hath he not sent me to the men which sit on the wall, that they may eat their own dung, and drink their own piss with you?" (II Kings 18:27)

Question: How many good Christians today realize that their God has coprophilic tendencies? Would you attribute this teaching to Allah(God) and Jesus? 

6)Boil and Eat Your Son

"And the king said unto her, What aileth thee? And she answered, This woman said unto me, Give thy son, that we may eat him to day, and we will eat my son to morrow. So we boiled my son, and did eat him: and I said unto her on the next day, Give thy son, that we may eat him: and she hath hid her son...." (II Kings 6:28-29)

Would you attribute this cannibalism to Allah(God) and Jesus? 

7)Howl And Strip Naked

"Therefore I will wail and howl, I will go stripped and naked: I will make a wailing like the dragons, and mourning as the owls." (Micah 1:8)

Question: Picture in your mind a religious man of today stripping and running around totally nude and prophesying in public, wailing and hooting at the top of his lungs. No doubt the police would snatch him up in a second while citizens stare in embarrassment. It just goes to show how far we have demeaned ourselves and our bodies as shameful. Would you attribute this teachings to Allah(God) and Jesus? 

8)Raping And Killing

"Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined unto them shall fall by the sword. Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished." (Isaiah 13:15-16)

Question: How some people who believe in an infallible Bible can accept these verses as God inspired, or morally uplifting can only give evidence to the blinding nature of belief. For if we believe these words as God inspired, then the killing of children and the raping of wives must also come as an inspiration from the Supreme Being. Would you attribute this brutal teaching to Allah(God) and Jesus? 

9) Christ taught non-resistance
          Matt 5:39/ Matt 26:52
         Christ taught and practiced physical resistance
          Luke 22:36/ John 2:15

Would you attribute this contradictory teachings to Allah(God) and Jesus? 
    

 10) Christ warned his followers not to fear being killed
          Luke 12:4
         Christ himself avoided the Jews for fear of being killed
          John 7:1

        Would you attribute this contradictory teachings to Allah(God) and Jesus? 
 

11)Christ preached his first sermon on the mount
          Matt 5:1,2
         Christ preached his first sermon on the plain
          Luke 6:17,20

 Would you attribute this contradictory teachings to Allah(God) and Jesus? 

12)A woman of Canaan besought Jesus
          Matt 15:22
         It was a Greek woman who besought Him
          Mark 7:26

Would you attribute this contradictory teachings to Allah(God) and Jesus? 

13)Christ is equal with God
           John 10:30/ Phil 2:5
          Christ is not equal with God
           John 14:28/ Matt 24:36

Would you attribute this contradictory teachings to Allah(God) and Jesus? 

14) Jesus was all-powerful
           Matt 28:18/ John 3:35
          Jesus was not all-powerful
           Mark 6:5
Would you attribute this contradictory teachings to Allah(God) and Jesus? 

15) Christ's witness of himself is true.
           John 8:18,14
          Christ's witness of himself is not true.
           John 5:31
     Would you attribute this contradictory teachings to Allah(God) and Jesus? 

Are those Biblical contradictions and immorality above inspired by God? Would you attribute those errors to God and Jesus? If the Bible contained conflicting verses would you still consider it to be Holy and the Word of God?

Note: The earliest Gospel was written about 70 years after Jesus was gone so Jesus was not there to correct the contradictions and errors of the NT!

In Islam Jesus is a great prophet of God so he will not contradict his own words. After all Jesus had received the teachings from Allah (God) Who will never contradict His own Word for Allah is the All Wise. However Jesus' teachings were corrupted by the Christians!

The errors and contradictions of the Bible (the OT and NT) is the cause why Allah(God) sends the Holy Quran as His final revelation to all mankind through His last messenger the prophet Muhammad to replace the  Bible, Torah etc!

Allah Himself has promised to guard the Qur’an: "We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly Guard it (from corruption) [Al-Qur’an 15:9].

God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)
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bullet Posted: 25 May 2006 at 9:13am
No, I already told you Jesus is the Word of God. The bible is a book.
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Angela
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bullet Posted: 25 May 2006 at 9:41am

The Bible is a mixture of scripture, culture and HISTORY.  Just because something is written about in the Bible does not mean the Bible advocates that action, sometimes its an example of the wickedness to avoid. 

I'll respond to accusation #2 first.....

Matthew 19

Teaching About Divorce

 1Now when Jesus had finished these sayings, he went away from Galilee and entered the region of Judea beyond the Jordan. 2And large crowds followed him, and he healed them there.

   

 3And Pharisees came up to him and tested him by asking, "Is it lawful to divorce one's wife for any cause?" 4He answered, "Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female, 5and said, 'Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh'? 6So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate." 7They said to him, "Why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce and to send her away?" 8He said to them, "Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. 9And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery."[a]

   

 10The disciples said to him, "If such is the case of a man with his wife, it is better not to marry." 11But he said to them, "Not everyone can receive this saying, but only those to whom it is given. 12For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let the one who is able to receive this receive it."

What is being said here is not castrate yourself.  Instead its saying, if you cannot approach a woman with righteousness and cannot maintain your marriage (except in the case of adultry) then it is better not to marry and to live a life of celibacy.  He is making a statement that there are men who are not married for whatever reason and that just because they are celibate (choice of forced) does not mean they will be denied heaven.  That's its better to be celibate than a fornicator or an adulterer. 

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bullet Posted: 25 May 2006 at 10:00am

Exodus 21

Laws About Slaves
 1"Now these are the rules that you shall set before them. 2When you buy a Hebrew slave, he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing. 3If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. 4If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out alone. 5But if the slave plainly says, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free,' 6then his master shall bring him to God, and he shall bring him to the door or the doorpost. And his master shall bore his ear through with an awl, and he shall be his slave forever.

   

 7"When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do. 8If she does not please her master, who has designated her[a] for himself, then he shall let her be redeemed. He shall have no right to sell her to a foreign people, since he has broken faith with her. 9If he designates her for his son, he shall deal with her as with a daughter. 10If he takes another wife to himself, he shall not diminish her food, her clothing, or her marital rights. 11And if he does not do these three things for her, she shall go out for nothing, without payment of money.

These laws are the laws of the land set forth by Moses.  But only the Ten Commandments in the previous Chapter came directly from God.

Judges 11:29-40 (English Standard Version)

English Standard Version (ESV)

The Holy Bible, English Standard Version Copyright © 2001 by Crossway Bibles, a division of Good News Publishers.

ESV from Good News Press

Jephthah's Tragic Vow
 29Then the Spirit of the LORD was upon Jephthah, and he passed through Gilead and Manasseh and passed on to Mizpah of Gilead, and from Mizpah of Gilead he passed on to the Ammonites. 30And Jephthah made a vow to the LORD and said, "If you will give the Ammonites into my hand, 31then whatever[a] comes out from the doors of my house to meet me when I return in peace from the Ammonites shall be the LORD's, and I will offer it[b] up for a burnt offering." 32So Jephthah crossed over to the Ammonites to fight against them, and the LORD gave them into his hand. 33And he struck them from Aroer to the neighborhood of Minnith, twenty cities, and as far as Abel-keramim, with a great blow. So the Ammonites were subdued before the people of Israel.

   

 34Then Jephthah came to his home at Mizpah. And behold, his daughter came out to meet him with tambourines and with dances. She was his only child; beside her he had neither son nor daughter. 35And as soon as he saw her, he tore his clothes and said, "Alas, my daughter! You have brought me very low, and you have become the cause of great trouble to me. For I have opened my mouth to the LORD, and I cannot take back my vow." 36And she said to him, "My father, you have opened your mouth to the LORD; do to me according to what has gone out of your mouth, now that the LORD has avenged you on your enemies, on the Ammonites." 37So she said to her father, "Let this thing be done for me: leave me alone two months, that I may go up and down on the mountains and weep for my virginity, I and my companions." 38So he said, "Go." Then he sent her away for two months, and she departed, she and her companions, and wept for her virginity on the mountains. 39And at the end of two months, she returned to her father, who did with her according to his vow that he had made. She had never known a man, and it became a custom in Israel 40that the daughters of Israel went year by year to lament the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite four days in the year.

This is not an advocation for child abuse, this is a man who made a vow to God and had to keep it.

Isaiah 13

The Judgment of Babylon

 1The oracle concerning Babylon which Isaiah the son of Amoz saw.

   
 2On a bare hill raise a signal;
   cry aloud to them;
wave the hand for them to enter
   the gates of the nobles.
3I myself have commanded my consecrated ones,
   and have summoned my mighty men to execute my anger,
   my proudly exulting ones.[a]

   

 4The sound of a tumult is on the mountains
   as of a great multitude!
The sound of an uproar of kingdoms,
   of nations gathering together!
The LORD of hosts is mustering
   a host for battle.
5They come from a distant land,
   from the end of the heavens,
the LORD and the weapons of his indignation,
   to destroy the whole land.[b]

   

 6Wail, for the day of the LORD is near;
   as destruction from the Almighty[c] it will come!
7Therefore all hands will be feeble,
   and every human heart will melt.
8They will be dismayed:
   pangs and agony will seize them;
   they will be in anguish like a woman in labor.
They will look aghast at one another;
   their faces will be aflame.

   

 9Behold, the day of the LORD comes,
   cruel, with wrath and fierce anger,
to make the land a desolation
   and to destroy its sinners from it.
10For the stars of the heavens and their constellations
   will not give their light;
the sun will be dark at its rising,
   and the moon will not shed its light.
11I will punish the world for its evil,
   and the wicked for their iniquity;
I will put an end to the pomp of the arrogant,
   and lay low the pompous pride of the ruthless.
12I will make people more rare than fine gold,
   and mankind than the gold of Ophir.
13Therefore I will make the heavens tremble,
   and the earth will be shaken out of its place,
at the wrath of the LORD of hosts
   in the day of his fierce anger.
14And like a hunted gazelle,
   or like sheep with none to gather them,
each will turn to his own people,
   and each will flee to his own land.
15Whoever is found will be thrust through,
   and whoever is caught will fall by the sword.
16Their infants will be dashed in pieces
   before their eyes;
their houses will be plundered
   and their wives ravished.

   

 17Behold, I am stirring up the Medes against them,
   who have no regard for silver
   and do not delight in gold.
18Their bows will slaughter[d] the young men;
   they will have no mercy on the fruit of the womb;
   their eyes will not pity children.
19And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms,
   the splendor and pomp of the Chaldeans,
will be like Sodom and Gomorrah
   when God overthrew them.
20It will never be inhabited
   or lived in for all generations;
no Arab will pitch his tent there;
   no shepherds will make their flocks lie down there.
21But wild animals will lie down there,
   and their houses will be full of howling creatures;
there ostriches[e] will dwell,
   and there wild goats will dance.
22Hyenas[f] will cry in its towers,
   and jackals in the pleasant palaces;
its time is close at hand
   and its days will not be prolonged.

This is the Judgement of Babylon.....and highly allegorical.

Hosea 13

The LORD's Relentless Judgment on Israel

 1When Ephraim spoke, there was trembling;
   he was exalted in Israel,
   but he incurred guilt through Baal and died.
2And now they sin more and more,
   and make for themselves metal images,
idols skillfully made of their silver,
   all of them the work of craftsmen.
It is said of them,
   "Those who offer human sacrifice kiss calves!"
3Therefore they shall be like the morning mist
   or like the dew that goes early away,
like the chaff that swirls from the threshing floor
   or like smoke from a window.

   

 4But I am the LORD your God
   from the land of Egypt;
you know no God but me,
   and besides me there is no savior.
5It was I who knew you in the wilderness,
   in the land of drought;
6but when they had grazed,[a] they became full,
   they were filled, and their heart was lifted up;
   therefore they forgot me.
7So I am to them like a lion;
   like a leopard I will lurk beside the way.
8I will fall upon them like a bear robbed of her cubs;
   I will tear open their breast,
and there I will devour them like a lion,
   as a wild beast would rip them open.

   

 9He destroys[b] you, O Israel,
   for you are against me, against your helper.
10Where now is your king, to save you in all your cities?
   Where are all your rulers--
those of whom you said,
   "Give me a king and princes"?
11I gave you a king in my anger,
   and I took him away in my wrath.

   

 12The iniquity of Ephraim is bound up;
   his sin is kept in store.
13The pangs of childbirth come for him,
   but he is an unwise son,
for at the right time he does not present himself
   at the opening of the womb.

   

 14Shall I ransom them from the power of Sheol?
   Shall I redeem them from Death?
O Death, where are your plagues?
   O Sheol, where is your sting?
   Compassion is hidden from my eyes.

   

 15Though he may flourish among his brothers,
   the east wind, the wind of the LORD, shall come,
   rising from the wilderness,
and his fountain shall dry up;
   his spring shall be parched;
it shall strip his treasury
   of every precious thing.
16[c] Samaria shall bear her guilt,
   because she has rebelled against her God;
they shall fall by the sword;
   their little ones shall be dashed in pieces,
   and their pregnant women ripped open

Ditto....

Psalm 137

How Shall We Sing the LORD's Song?

 1By the waters of Babylon,
   there we sat down and wept,
   when we remembered Zion.
2On the willows[a] there
   we hung up our lyres.
3For there our captors
   required of us songs,
and our tormentors, mirth, saying,
   "Sing us one of the songs of Zion!"

   

 4How shall we sing the LORD's song
   in a foreign land?
5If I forget you, O Jerusalem,
   let my right hand forget its skill!
6Let my tongue stick to the roof of my mouth,
   if I do not remember you,
if I do not set Jerusalem
   above my highest joy!

   

 7Remember, O LORD, against the Edomites
   the day of Jerusalem,
how they said, "Lay it bare, lay it bare,
   down to its foundations!"
8O daughter of Babylon, doomed to be destroyed,
   blessed shall he be who repays you
   with what you have done to us!
9Blessed shall he be who takes your little ones
   and dashes them against the rock!

And like wise.....

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bullet Posted: 25 May 2006 at 10:25am

 Angela's statement:

10The disciples said to him, "If such is the case of a man with his wife, it is better not to marry." 11But he said to them, "Not everyone can receive this saying, but only those to whom it is given. 12For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let the one who is able to receive this receive it."

What is being said here is not castrate yourself. 

------------------------------------------------------------ ------

Dear Angela,

I quote your word: 'What is being said here is not castrate yourself.'

Answer: Matthew 19:12 has refuted your claim by saying:

12For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let the one who is able to receive this receive it."

God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)
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bullet Posted: 25 May 2006 at 10:31am

Correct, its not saying go do it...its saying there are those who have done it....big difference.  The Bible is not comparable to the Quran.  It comments more one what is going on around the Prophets and Apostles as much as the revelations being given.  You have to understand which are comments of what is going on and which are directives.  That's not saying chop the boys off, its saying there are a few that have done this in order to ensure they remain chaste. 

I'll look but there is a scripture I'm trying to find and maybe one of the other Christians can help but it has to do with making your body a temple.

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bullet Posted: 25 May 2006 at 10:46am
Angela's statement:
Jephthah's Tragic Vow-

This is not an advocation for child abuse, this is a man who made a vow to God and had to keep it.

------------------------------------------------------------ ------

Dear Angela,

When "the spirit of the Lord" comes upon Jephthah, he makes a deal with God: If God will help him kill the Ammonites, then he (Jephthah) will offer to God as a burnt offering whatever comes out of his house to greet him. God keeps his end of the deal by providing Jephthah with "a very great slaughter." But when Jephthah returns, his nameless daughter comes out to greet him (who'd he expect, his wife?). Well, a deal's a deal, so he delivers her to God as a burnt offering -- after letting her spend a couple of months going up and down on the mountains bewailing her virginity.

Question: 1)Does God approve of human sacrifice?

               2) How could this  man make a vow to God and  keep it  by offering his own daughter as a burnt offering. Had the God of the Bible and this man forgotten that this sacrifice contradict Deuteronomy 18:10 !

Deuteronomy 18:10
There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire....
 
I wonder what kind of God that contradicts His own Word. Is the God of the Bible cruel enough to accept the sacrifice?
In Islam Allah is the Most Merciful God and He didn't allow Abraham to sacrifice Ishmael.
God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)
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bullet Posted: 25 May 2006 at 10:54am

Angela's statement: Correct, its not saying go do it...its saying there are those who have done it....big difference. 

------------------------------------------------------------ ------

Answer: Matthew 19:12 .....there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven.....

So they castrated themselves so that they could go to heaven.

God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)
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