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Interfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Interfaith Dialogue
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Angel
 
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Quote Angel Replybullet Posted: 26 May 2006 at 8:37am

Originally posted by Cyril

Angel

Why do you avoid saying the hijab or the niqab is a religious obligation to Muslim women while Muslim men can walk around in the heat in short sleeved shirts?

Actually I never avoided anything.

The comparison with hospital gear or veils worn by old ladies is ridiculous because those are only worn for practical or fashion reasons.

I give you a practical reason, in winter it keeps you warm  and people do say that being covered up is suppose to keep you cool in summer, like you suppose to cover up in the desert  Oh and you might see that since muslim women cover up in summer they won't get skin cancer.

So there you got practical reasons  

The hijab is not only to conceal the hair but symbolizes the control that has to be imposed on women and their movements.

symbolizes control ???

Oh yeah those young muslims girls who play soccer are restricted in their movements.

They are supposed to remain at home unless they carry their home walls along with them.

I guess those few muslim girls who study at my work are in the wrong that they have stepped outside the home. on my they are bad  

carry their home walls along with them ??? what is that ?? are you insane or something

~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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Cyril
 
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Quote Cyril Replybullet Posted: 26 May 2006 at 9:10am
Angel

You should study a little bit of Muslim culture.
The home is the domain of women and the street the domain of men. Women must not be seen by strangers. That does not happen when they are secluded behind walls. When they go out in the street they remain secluded behind they veils which can be compared to the walls of their home.
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Mishmish
 
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Quote Mishmish Replybullet Posted: 26 May 2006 at 10:40am

Originally posted by Cyril

Angel

You should study a little bit of Muslim culture.
The home is the domain of women and the street the domain of men. Women must not be seen by strangers. That does not happen when they are secluded behind walls. When they go out in the street they remain secluded behind they veils which can be compared to the walls of their home.

Cyril,

Are you a Muslim? Don't you think as a Muslim I should know what Islam does and does not teach?

I think you are confusing the "culture" of a few majority Muslim countries with Islam, the religion.

What is it you find so offensive about hijab? That it is supposedly a form of control over women? Who is supposed to be controlling us, men? The Quran is the Word of God, as the Bible is supposed to be, so I would say that God is the One ordering women to cover themselves and be modest. No man forces me to wear hijab. I do so because God told me to cover myself.

However, as an offended Westerner should you try to control me by forcing me to remove my hijab?

I am an American, born and raised here. Used to be a Christian. I have worked most of my adult life, went to University, and travelled all over. I am not some helpless, victimized chattel of men who allows herself to be controlled. I choose what I do. I choose to wear hijab because God told me to do this. The hijab has not stopped me from doing anything that I want to do. I worked in hijab, I play in hijab, I go wherever I want, take part in charity events, play sports and games, etc...

I think that you and people like you are the ones who are controlled by ignorance and what you percieve to be "freedom" for women. If a woman chooses to be modest and covered she is oppressed. I believe the oppression of women is the mentality of the West that you have no value as a woman unless you are 25 years old, weigh 100 pounds, and dress provacatively. That is oppression and that is control. To convince women that they are nothing but sex-objects who have no worth unless they look and act in a sexual way. Why are there so many girls with anorexia and bulimia in the West? Why are there so many plastic surgeries? Why do the girls and women parade around half dressed? Even on makeover shows, the first thing they tell women is to show off their bodies. Why are breast augmentations the most popular form of elective surgery, and why has the number performed increased so dramatically? Why? Because in this "culture" that is the value women have. The size of their breasts, not the size of their IQ.

The hijab doesn't oppress women, it sets them free. Free to focus on their minds and their souls instead of what men find important: their sexuality.

 



Edited by Mishmish
It is only with the heart that one can see clearly, what is essential is invisible to the eye. (The Little Prince)
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Hayfa
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Quote Hayfa Replybullet Posted: 26 May 2006 at 10:56am

The hijab is not only to conceal the hair but symbolizes the control that has to be imposed on women and their movements. They are supposed to remain at home unless they carry their home walls along with them.

Cyril: you can have your 'interpretation' of why women wear hijab and the 700 million Moslem women in the world will probably disagree with you.

YOU view it as a symbol of their home and 'carrying their walls'. They necessarily do not. Hijab is more than a scarf on the head. It is about covering oneself in a modest way.

In addition to believing Allah directed them to wear hijab. It has many other aspects to it. I am sure other people have others to add.... 

1.     I grew up in the west and never liked wearing tight and revealing clothes. I had no interest in being stared at. No one ever told me to not wear loose clothes for any reason. I just know how a certain percentage of men are. They are rude and immature and I did not want to deal with their weakness. I was not a Moslem at the time. I found it distasteful.

2.     Loose clothing is far more comfortable. Have you ever tried to wear tight jeans and tight clothes?? Darn uncomfortable.

3.     Surprising there is a large segment of population of women, who are not Moslem, agree that the tight, revealing clothes is not only demeaning to women it shows a lack of respect.  Because only the tackiest, most revealing are noticed, we tend not to see a good percentage of women will not dress that way.  They may not dress to the extent a Moslem woman, but they wear tasteful, professional and less revealing clothes.

4.     Hijab requires people to deal with me solely on a mental level, not physical. It is taking one’s looks out of the equation. Dealing with me as a full person, a woman, not a body part or type. Since some people are ignorant idiots it greatly helps them from jerks. I think it can be disconcerting cause you cannot put the woman into a box that you think you can. No ‘dumb blond’ jokes for sure or stereotyping based upon appearance.

5.     Moslems hold sacred the marriage and family bonds. A Moslem will value this over most relationships. The sexual / physical is a private matter. It is not for the whole world to see. It is part of one of the amazing gifts Allah has given people. And it should not be trifled with. Women and men BOTH like the feeling of not having to share their partner. It makes the relationship special.

6.     Covering’s one body does protect you from the natural elements. People in hot weather countries will cover to protect from the sun. It has practical value.

7.     Considering there are more women getting science and math degrees in many Moslem countries than in the US, I would disagree with you that it is because they need to be at home so to speak. Having traveled in a Moslem country, there were plenty of women out and about. Some covered their heads, some did not. But ALL people were conservatively dressed. After being here in the states, I appreciated not having to look at all those body parts. I also appreciated going to a wedding where everyone was sober. (That is for another thread)

A humorous quote on this subject is by Dave Barry is:

Men's magazines often feature pictures of naked women. Women's magazines also feature pictures of naked women. This is because the female body is a beautiful work of art, while the male body is lumpy and hairy and should not be seen by the light of day. Men are turned on at the sight of a naked woman's body. Most naked men elicit laughter from women.



Edited by Hayfa
When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi
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Angel
 
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Quote Angel Replybullet Posted: 26 May 2006 at 10:57am

after 4 and half years here, what do I know  

women must not be seen by strangers where did you get that from?? not everyone knows each other in the mosque you know at least a large one  Or attending one that is not your own.

And there are plently women seen on the streets either shopping or going to work or school, on the train, yeah not allowed to be seen by strangers , oh and guess what some are alone now that is some trust on the husband or father

I've seen travel documentaries on a few shopping centres in the mid east, guest what plenty of women shopping amongst strangers.

I do really think you need to learn a bit more about muslims and what is allowed in islam. Sure there is some segretation but what you say is not correct.

I am sure the muslims here will help correct you.

~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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amah
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Quote amah Replybullet Posted: 26 May 2006 at 11:13am
For Hayfa, Mishmish and Angel:



Jazakallahkhairan!
Allah is Sufficient as a Walee (Protector) and Allah is Sufficient as a Naseer (Helper).
(Surah An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #45)
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Mishmish
 
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Quote Mishmish Replybullet Posted: 26 May 2006 at 11:32am

Cyril wrote:

"No they don't when religious freedom infringes on laws and on the principles on which Western society is built."

I don't know where you live, but in the States our society was supposed to be built on the principles of religious freedom. That was the whole point, escaping religious persecution in other countries. The laws, and the very Constitution of this country are supposed to protect the religious freedom of all who live here.

If you are from Europe, then I can more readily understand your position since Europe has a rich history of persecuting, subverting, and compelling those who hold religious beliefs different than the majority. Apparently not too ancient a history.

It is only with the heart that one can see clearly, what is essential is invisible to the eye. (The Little Prince)
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Mishmish
 
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Quote Mishmish Replybullet Posted: 26 May 2006 at 4:20pm

Assalamu Alaikum:

Well, I ran some errands today, and thanks to my portable "home walls of invisibility" no strangers' eyes were set upon my person.

However, it can be difficult getting the "home walls of invisiblilty" in and out of the car, which as a Muslim woman I'm probably not supposed to be driving but since I am invisible to strangers' eyes no Muslim man notices, so they cannot oppress me by taking away my car keys.  And, there is the problem of actually paying for goods and services when I'm out and about since I must remain behind the "walls" and so no strangers can see me to accept my cash.

Ah well, just another day of oppression....



Edited by Mishmish
It is only with the heart that one can see clearly, what is essential is invisible to the eye. (The Little Prince)
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