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Interfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Interfaith Dialogue
Message Icon Topic: The Da Vinci Code Post Reply Post New Topic
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AbRah2006
 
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Quote AbRah2006 Replybullet Posted: 25 May 2006 at 2:38am

[QUOTE=Miriam]Abednego:  I quite agree with you.  If evangelical Christians were  insecure about their beliefs they'd be rioting in the streets over the DaVinci Code movie.  Instead, evangelical pastors are using this as an opportunity to address the issues raised by the movie from the pulpit.  When one has the truth, one needn't get all out of joint about it and act out in a negative manner that only brings insults and laughter from the world.

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If the evangelical Christians and other Christians were secure, they will not protest against the Da Vinci Code! On the contrary they are taking some steps to stop or to protest against the Da Vinci Code verbally and orally! If they are really secure they will not give a damn to the movie!



Edited by AbRah2006
God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)
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AbRah2006
 
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Quote AbRah2006 Replybullet Posted: 25 May 2006 at 2:57am

I am exposing the double standard practised by the West in this article.

The West says proudly that it reveres and preserve democracy. It is an irony that the West rejects Hamas when Hamas has won the election in Palestine legally. The West are trying to topple Hamas government by imposing economy sanction onto Palestine so now the West become the enemy of democracy! The West had imposed the economy sanctions and food embargoes onto Iraq that starved innocent millions of Iraqi babies and children to death! The West has flushed human rights and humanity into sewer!

It was the Western people who massacred more than 55 millions of the innocent Western people during the 2nd World War  for it had already flushed human rights and humanity into sewer during the great wars of Europe!

The hypocrisy of the West is exposed again!



Edited by AbRah2006
God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)
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AbRah2006
 
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Quote AbRah2006 Replybullet Posted: 25 May 2006 at 3:27am
Abednego's statement:

That rationalzation is quite sophomoric.

Notice your own operative words here:

In the case of Di Vinci the protesters boycott, condemn, protest, sue.

In the case of the cartoons the remedy was threaten murder, destroy private property, publically call for the murder of those involved and precipitate the deaths of dozens by mob violence.

In the case of Van Goh the remedy was a public execution.

Lets take a look at your definition again.

The term hypocrisy is also commonly used in a way which should be more specifically termed a double standard, bias, or inconsistency. An example would be when one honestly believes that one group of individuals should be held to a different set of morals than another group.

So tell me how you rationalize the double standard you're applying? On the one hand you're perfectly happy with the persecution of Rushdie, murder of Van Goh, and deaths resulting from purile demonstrations. On the other hand you seem experience some angst over peaceful, non-violent and legal methods of protest.

By the way AbRah, what you are doing is called "projection"

from Webster online:

6 a : the act of perceiving a mental object as spatially and sensibly objective; also : something so perceived b : the attribution of one's own ideas, feelings, or attitudes to other people or to objects; especially : the externalization of blame, guilt, or responsibility as a defense against anxiety

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My response:

You are not fair to yourself by saying such things to Muslims.

Have you forgotten how the Catholics and Protestants tortured and massacred each other during the Catholic-Protestant wars over their difference in Christianity. I wonder why didn't they protest peacefully instead of killing each other in the name of Christianity! 

Here is a quotation of the conflict:

By 1617, the Habsburg chosen as king of Bohemia was Ferdinand II (brother of the now deceased Philip II). Ferdinand was a pious man, attending masses at all hours and a monarch who went on pilgrimages and endured self-abasement. In 1618, Ferdinand moved against Protestantism by closing some Protestant churches in Prague. This was followed by rebellion and the rejection of Habsburg rule - as Ferdinand should have expected it would. Siding with Ferdinand was the Catholic monarch of Bavaria, Maximilian, and Philip II's heir, Philip III, King of Spain. Siding with the Protestants were some German princes. Between 1618 and 1625, Spanish armies supporting Ferdinand defeated Protestant armies, and with the help of the Jesuits and forced conversions, the area around Prague - Bohemia and Moravia - was made Catholic. In Prague, on June 21, 1621, twenty-six noblemen were executed. Other nobles who had rebelled in Bohemia and Moravia had their property confiscated and given to nobles who had demonstrated their loyalty to the Church and Ferdinand II.

Hey Abed... why don't you look at your own history before you Abed accuse Muslims of barbarity! Another question for you Abed :Why did the Christians burnt the scientists etc to death for introducing new ideas that contradicted the Bible during the Dark Age of Europe? Why didn't the Christians protest against the scientists etc peacefully?



Edited by AbRah2006
God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)
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Cyril
 
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Quote Cyril Replybullet Posted: 25 May 2006 at 7:30am
Abrah

Your quote: "The West says proudly that it reveres and preserve democracy.It is an irony that the West rejects Hamas when Hamas has won the election in Palestine legally.

You seem (or pretend) not to know how international relations work. All states in the world, except probably North Korea, mutually accept the states which are defined as such.
The only reason why Hamas is rejected is not because it has democratically won elections, but because it does not recognize one of the states of the international community, and because it advocates the suppression of that state.


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Quote AbRah2006 Replybullet Posted: 25 May 2006 at 8:52am

[QUOTE=Cyril]Abrah

Your quote: "The West says proudly that it reveres and preserve democracy.It is an irony that the West rejects Hamas when Hamas has won the election in Palestine legally.

You seem (or pretend) not to know how international relations work. All states in the world, except probably North Korea, mutually accept the states which are defined as such.
The only reason why Hamas is rejected is not because it has democratically won elections, but because it does not recognize one of the states of the international community, and because it advocates the suppression of that state.
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How can Hamas recognize Israel when Israel is formed by the Zionists who rob the Palestinian people of their land? Will you Cyril recognize the robbers who rob you of your home?

God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)
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Quote Mishmish Replybullet Posted: 25 May 2006 at 12:23pm

Cyril wrote:

"You seem (or pretend) not to know how international relations work. All states in the world, except probably North Korea, mutually accept the states which are defined as such.
The only reason why Hamas is rejected is not because it has democratically won elections, but because it does not recognize one of the states of the international community, and because it advocates the suppression of that state."

Actually, this is directly from HR4681:

(a) DECLARATION OF POLICY - It shall be the policy of the United States to promote the emergence of a democratic Palestinian government that:

(A) has completed the process of purging from its security services individuals with ties to terrorism;
(B) has dismantled the terrorist infrastructure and is confiscating unauthorized weapons, arresting and bringing terrorists to justice, destroying unauthorized arms factories, thwarting and preempting terrorist attacks, and is fully cooperating with Israel's security services;
(C) has publicly acknowledged Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state;
(D) has halted all anti-Israel incitement in Palestinian Authority-controlled electronic and print media and in schools, mosques, and other institutions it controls, and is replacing these materials, including textbooks, with materials that promote tolerance, peace, and coexistence with Israel;
(E) has taken effective steps to ensure democracy, the rule of law, and an independent judiciary, and has adopted other reforms such as ensuring transparent and accountable governance; and
(F) has undertaken efforts to ensure the financial transparency and accountability of all government ministries and operations

As you can clearly see, recognising the "state of Israel" is just one part. The U.S. is basically trying to control Hamas and it's policies. They are asking Hamas to do things that the Israelis do not. It is unfair and biased legislation, anyone can see that.

I'm wondering just who they are supposed to be accountable to? Aren't they a sovereign entity? I find this ironic in the extreme considering the corruption that occurs in the U.S. government regarding financial accountability, and with the corruption regarding the Israeli Lobby. The U.S. Government isn't even accountable to their own people, yet they are demanding accountability from a foreign government.

I would say, the Palestinians may accept Israel when Israel gives back all of their land and stops the apartheid and slow genocide of the Palestinian people. These are all United Nation mandated actions, which the Israelis have NEVER followed. How many times must the Israelis be sanctioned before the U.S. finally says they are in the wrong?

It is only with the heart that one can see clearly, what is essential is invisible to the eye. (The Little Prince)
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Quote AbRah2006 Replybullet Posted: 26 May 2006 at 12:05am

Some of Christians of the West have falsely accused Muslims of persecuting non-Muslims in Muslim nations while the Christians themselves abuse the rights of Muslims to practise their beliefs in the West. Muslim girls and women cover their hairs as a part of their beliefs but the Christians use the laws to force them to expose their hairs. Some Muslim women lose their jobs for practising their beliefs and some Muslim girls are barred from schools etc for covering their hairs.

In Muslim nations non-Muslims are allowed to practise their beliefs and there are many churches, temples etc. They may go to schools to study and hold positions in Muslim government and non-government organisations.

God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)
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Quote Cyril Replybullet Posted: 26 May 2006 at 1:36am
Abrah

You are mentioning rights (in the plural) of Muslims to practise their religion that are supposedly abused by Christians. In the rest of your posts those rights become only one, the covering of the hair by Muslim women.
In every country people of whatever religion are supposed to respect the laws and their fellow citizens.
The Belgian law forbids to walk around with a masked face. So the chador is forbidden.
French law forbids religious signs at school. So the Muslim veil for schoolgirls is forbidden.

The Muslim veil is an offence to people who respect the dignity of women.
In the West people from many religions and non-religions live together. So each religion can express itself but not infringe on the laws or on the sensibilities of others.
People from African culture have also been "abused" by Western laws that forbid the mutilation of women genitals.
Such is life in the West.

You must be joking when you say that non-Muslims can freely practice their religions in Muslim countries. I wonder what Copts think of their situation in Egypt, what Christians think in Indonesia, not to mention Saudi Arabia. Even in secular Turkey Christians have difficulties in practising their religion.








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