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Islamic INTRAfaith Dialogue
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new_muslimah
 
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Quote new_muslimah Replybullet Posted: 27 May 2005 at 10:06am

What ISLAM stays silent at this brutal Attack?

What will salafis say about this ?

Nineteen dead in suicide blast at Pakistan Muslim shrine

ISLAMABAD (AFP) - A suicide bomber blew himself up in the middle of a crowd of Shiite Muslims at a shrine close to the Pakistani capital, killing at least 19 people and injuring dozens, doctors and witnesses said.

Hundreds of pilgrims were celebrating an annual festival on Friday when the bomb exploded at the Bari Imam shrine, which is just north of Islamabad and near diplomatic and government buildings including the prime minister's residence.

"There were pools of blood everywhere and the bomb scattered body parts inside and outside the shrine. It was a very gory, sickening scene," Mohammed Amjad, a witness, told AFP.

The majority of the worshippers marking the anniversary of a 17th-century Muslim saint's death were members of Pakistan's minority Shiite community, witnesses said. In previous days the worshippers have been mainly Sunnis.

Thousands of Pakistani Shiite and majority Sunni Muslims have died in sectarian carnage in recent years through bomb blasts, suicide bombing and targeted killings. Last year 160 people died.

Police said they found a decapitated head lying on the floor of the shrine several yards away from a dead body after the latest bombing, which happened at about 11:20 am (0620 GMT).

"It seems to be a suicide attack. The investigators are going towards this," Pakistan's Information Minister Sheikh Rashid told AFP.

"It was an act of terrorism," Tariq Pirzada, a senior Islamabad administration official, told AFP, confirming that 19 people had died.

He said "there is strong suspicion" that a mutilated body at the scene belonged to a suicide bomber.

Pakistan's military ruler President Pervez Musharraf expressed "shock and profound grief" at the blast and ordered an inquiry to track down the culprits.

"The president strongly condemned the heinous act of terrorism and directed the concerned authorities to provide immediate relief and medical treatment to the injured," an official statement said.

The attack came as US Assistant Secretary of State for South Asia, Christina Rocca, visited Pakistan and hours before Islamic hardliners staged mass protests against alleged abuse of the Koran at the US detention centre in Guantanamo Bay.

Doctors said 18 bodies and 50 wounded people were taken to Islamabad's Pakistan Institute of Medical Sciences hospital, while another body and six other wounded people arrived at City Hospital.

Polyclinic, a third hospital, said 23 injured were brought in, of whom eight were fighting for their lives.

"The congregation was in progress. Around 400 people were there, when a man walked in and started towards the stage where a Shiite leader was delivering a sermon," Amjad, the witness, said.

"When the man got close to the stage there was a big explosion and there was panic all around."

Worshippers in traditional Pakistani clothing wailed and beat themselves amid scenes of chaos after the blast.

The shrine, in the village of Nurpur, is dedicated to Sufi Muslim saint Shah Abdul Latif Kazimi, known as Bari Imam, who helped bring Islam to the region.

The Sunni custodian of the shrine and two other people were shot dead near the compound in February. Both sects claim the shrine is theirs but it has been controlled by Sunnis for the past two decades.

In March, 39 Sunni and Shiite devotees died in a blast at another Sufi shrine in the remote southwestern town of Fatahpur.

Traditional practices by Sufi Muslims, who follow a mystical branch of the religion, are frowned on by some conservatives and this week a number of religious scholars criticised the Bari Imam celebrations.

A group of senior Pakistani Muslim clerics this month declared as un-Islamic suicide bombings and attacks on ordinary citizens and places of worship

Allah is the Light of the Universe.
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rami
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Quote rami Replybullet Posted: 01 June 2005 at 1:52am
Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

assalamu alaikum new muslimah

Alhamdulilah you have decided to become a muslim sister, but it is unfortunate that you chose shia Islam based on political motives rather than religious doctrine. You will find as you learn more that our shia brothers do not accept many of the sahabah or wifes of the prophet based on these political rather than true religious doctrine and as such reject much of the sunnah of rasul allah that came from them. Muawiyah is not a leading figure in Sunni Islam we refrain from commenting on him becouse of adab and we have no right to judge those who we do not know and were not even alive in our time.

They claim we do not love ahl al bait but that is not true since 80%  of Islams greatest scholars have been from Ahl al Bait.
Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
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Ali Zaki
 
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Quote Ali Zaki Replybullet Posted: 01 June 2005 at 5:47am

Salam Brother Rami,

I don't understand your statement "

it is unfortunate that you chose shia Islam based on political motives rather than religious doctrine

In fact, she says in her post that " After reading in-depth , after what happened after the demise of Holy Prophet (PBUH) , i concluded, that IMAM ALI is the rightly appointed successor to Holy Prophet and the followers of Imam Ali , have thus direct link to Holy Prophet"

I don't know, a "link to the Holy Prophet" sounds like a doctrinal reason to me.

"The structure of faith is supported by four pillars endurance, conviction, justice and jihad."

Imam Ali (a.s.)
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Ali Zaki
 
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Quote Ali Zaki Replybullet Posted: 01 June 2005 at 5:53am

One more quick point...

You say that you would rather not comment on Muawiyah. Why? Don't our Sunni brothers consider him a companion of the Prophet? If he qualifies as a "Sahaba" according to Sunni doctrine then we should not hesitate to "praise his actions" and examine his life to take examples from it? Would anyone like to hear more about Muawiyah? How about other "noble" companions like Talha and Zubair? How about Marwan ibn Hakim?

"The structure of faith is supported by four pillars endurance, conviction, justice and jihad."

Imam Ali (a.s.)
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rami
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Quote rami Replybullet Posted: 01 June 2005 at 6:46am
bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

assalamu alaikum

That is a matter of opinion br, islam is not about sayidinah ali or hasan and husain. It is not the focus of sunni Islam our aim is to worship Allah and at the scholarly level it is for many shia but... Whether Imam Ali should have been the rightfull successor is not relavent today what occured back then is for them only each person will stand by them self on the day of judgment.

regarding your second post br, i dont like discussing issues with shia in general since there beliefs vary from person to person. i have met brothers who dont mind the sahaba mentioned others who simply dont like them but dont go to extremes while others outright curse them and there are some who are consumed by these issues they care little about islam and make Ali and ahl al bayt there hole life.

The Shia of today are not the Shia of back then, hatred for the sahaba has become an extreme, in earlier times there used to be among the shia people called "Uthman", "Umar" etc but that has changed as is evident by how the muslims in Iran were forced to accept shia Islam by the sword.

I have a few shia friends br but these matters we do not discuss, it alows for a more healthy friendship.
Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
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Quote Ali Zaki Replybullet Posted: 01 June 2005 at 8:27am

Salam Rami,

I understand and respect your decision not to discuss these issues with your Shia friends. I also have Sunni friends, and I also am hesitant to discuss these issues with them as I don't want to jepordize our friendship. However, on this forum these issues do not apply and we should discuss openly. If we can't talk about these things here, then WHERE??? (after all, name of this forum is INTRAfaith Dialogue, correct?)

I agree that Shi'ism is not static, and has evolved over time. For one thing (for example), Imam Hussien (a.s.) was not killed by the Muslims on the order of the Caliph at the time of Imam Ali (a.s.). Also, the Imam's had to adapt their preaching and teaching activities to the requirements of the time and the degree of openess of the Umma to their guidance. However, the message has not changed.

You said, "

"Whether Imam Ali should have been the rightfull successor is not relavent today what occured back then is for them only each person will stand by them self on the day of judgment."

I strongly disagree with this statement. As testified by the famous hadith of Thaquanayn.

http://www.al-islam.org/thaqalayn/Occasions.htm

" Verily, I have left two precious things (thaqalayn) among you, one of which is greater than the other: the Book of God and my `Itrah, my Ahl al­Bayt. So watch out how you treat them after me. For, indeed, they will never separate until they return to me by the side of the Pond (of Kawthur).' "

Why are these two equated in importance? Would you say that the Quran is still relevent?

As testified above, one cannot follow the real Sunnah of the Prophet (p.b.u.h.) without the guidance and direction of the Ahly al'Bayt. If you leave one, then you leave the other. This is not an exageration, but the words of our Messenger (p.b.u.h.).

By the way, will not stand alone on the day judgement. Numerous Ayat of Quran and Hadith establish that the Prophets and Imams will be Shaheed (witnesses) over their Umma, and will intercede on behalf of some of their people by Allah's permission. In addition, the leaders of misguidance, such as Pharoah, will be raised with his people and will lead them to hell. The Ahyl al'Bayt will only intercede (with Allah's permission, of course) on behalf of their supporters. That is simple logic. As a result, those who you select as your leaders has implications in the Dunya, until the Day of Judgement and in the hereafter.

"The structure of faith is supported by four pillars endurance, conviction, justice and jihad."

Imam Ali (a.s.)
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Quote Ali Zaki Replybullet Posted: 01 June 2005 at 8:41am

one more thing...

" i have met brothers who dont mind the sahaba mentioned others who simply dont like them but dont go to extremes while others outright curse them and there are some who are consumed by these issues they care little about islam and make Ali and ahl al bayt there hole life."

Noone is saying that the Sahaba are all bad. The Shia take each companion on a case by case basis, based on his actions and do not lump them all together. Some of the companions deserve condemnation for their actions, and many others deserve praise. Even those companions who committed wrong action were not all bad, and many served Islam well during the lifetime of the Prophet and then deviated after the Prophets death. Most of the companions are like us (good intentioned, with some weaknesses and lacking complete knowledge).

Regarding making the Ahly al"Bayt consume their life, Insha Allah I am worthy to count myself among this group (although I don't deserve that position). The Ahly al'Bayt are the living example of the Sunnah of the Prophet and the Holy Quran. Love of Ahl al'Bayt is equivelent to love of the Messenger of Allah (p.b.u.h)., and love of the messenger is equivelent to love of Allah (s.w.a.). In order to enter the City of Knowledge (the Sunnah of the Prophet), one must first go through the gate (which is Imam Ali (a.s.)). If one wants to drink the pure water of Islam, one must hold firmly to it's container (the Ahly al'Bayt).


 

"The structure of faith is supported by four pillars endurance, conviction, justice and jihad."

Imam Ali (a.s.)
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Quote rami Replybullet Posted: 03 June 2005 at 1:40am
Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

assalamu alaikum

Originally posted by Ali Zaki

You said, "

"Whether Imam Ali should have been the rightfull successor is not relavent today what occured back then is for them only each person will stand by them self on the day of judgment."

I strongly disagree with this statement. As testified by the famous hadith of Thaquanayn.

http://www.al-islam.org/thaqalayn/Occasions.htm

" Verily, I have left two precious things (thaqalayn) among you, one of which is greater than the other: the Book of God and my `Itrah, my Ahl al­Bayt. So watch out how you treat them after me. For, indeed, they will never separate until they return to me by the side of the Pond (of Kawthur).' "

Why are these two equated in importance? Would you say that the Quran is still relevent?

As testified above, one cannot follow the real Sunnah of the Prophet (p.b.u.h.) without the guidance and direction of the Ahly al'Bayt. If you leave one, then you leave the other. This is not an exageration, but the words of our Messenger (p.b.u.h.).

Allah sent us the Quran and Rasul allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam), and he left The Quran and His sunnah which he taught to his community not simply his Family. It is not correct to say leaving Ahl al Bait means leaving the Quran the two are not different sides of the same coin.

Much of the Sunnah of Rasul Allah is rejected by the shia and the number of Ahadith which you have are much less in comaprison. It is becouse of this that Shia have had to rely on Qiyas (Ruling by abnalogy) rather than primary text and it is also why Shia Islam is Not static but changing since much of is relys on Interpretation.

Using that hadith as evidence is lagergly interpratation on the part of the shia, there is nothing in the hadith which says Those who rule or those whom Allah has chosen to Guide his Ummah are only from among Ahl al Bait. In fact Allah in the Quran clearly says Guidance is for everyone and those who Allah choses to Guide none will be able to lead astray.

Whoso obey Allah and the Messenger, they are with those unto whom Allas has shown favor, of the Prophets and the saints and the martyrs and the righteous. The best of company are they! (4:69)

"Those who strive hard in Us, We shall most surely guide them in our Ways" (29:69) and ittaqullah wa yu`allimukumullah ("Be aware of Allah, and Allah Himself will teach you" 2:282)

Guidance was never only meant for Ahl Al bait and Rasul Allah never said They are the "ONLY" ones who can lead or Guide People. In the above verses Allah literaly says I will Guide who ever Strugles to become more aware of me.

In a Hadith-e-Qudsi found in the Sahih Bukhari explaining this: The Prophet (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) has explained that the Almighty Allah has stated: "He who has caused enmity with My Wali (Friend), I give him declaration of war. Among those acts through which My slave achieves My closeness, the most beloved are the Fardh (Compulsory) acts. My slave also achieves My closeness through the Nafil (Optional) deeds, till I make him into My beloved. When he becomes My beloved, I become his ears through which he listens, his eyes through which he sees, his hands by which he holds, his feet by which he walks. When he pleads to Me for anything I definitely bestow it on him. When he seeks refuge in Me from any bad deed, then I definitely save him from it."

Guidance and Hence leadership can not be said are for Ahl al Bait alone, Islam is not a Monarchy.

If you look at islamic History Many of Islams Greatest thinkers/Scholars were not from Ahl al Bait, they were not even Arabs. Being an Arab is not a requirment for Guidance from Allah.

By the way, will not stand alone on the day judgement. Numerous Ayat of Quran and Hadith establish that the Prophets and Imams will be Shaheed (witnesses) over their Umma, and will intercede on behalf of some of their people by Allah's permission. In addition, the leaders of misguidance, such as Pharoah, will be raised with his people and will lead them to hell. The Ahyl al'Bayt will only intercede (with Allah's permission, of course) on behalf of their supporters. That is simple logic. As a result, those who you select as your leaders has implications in the Dunya, until the Day of Judgement and in the hereafter.

I am refering to the period of judgment, we will be judged by your self for your own actions no person will benefit us at that time. Intercession comes only after judgment and in most cases after punishment or even after being placed in hell.

intercession is also not only for Ahl al Bait we will be intercessors for each other and who our leaders are has no effect on intercession since it is not the leaders place to intercede simply becouse he was our leader. Ahl al bait will intercede for those they knew and those they knew will intercede for those they inturn knew and so on and so on, Being resurected as part of a certain group has nothing to do with intercession you will be seperated from what ever group you are raised with long beffore intercession arives and it is the last thing to occur on the day of judgment not the first.

Pharoah will not lead his people to hell, this is not an Islamic beliefe let alone shia! they are not going to hell for being pharoahs followers simply. they are destined to hell becouse of the evil each person comitted each person is responsible for himself. not every person who is raised with a group is necessarily from among that group it is established in a hadith that on the day there will be people resurected with a certain group who allah punished simply becouse he died with them at the time of the punishment even though he was not from among them.

Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
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