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 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : General : Comments & Complaints
Message Icon Topic: Does this site promote hatred of the West Post Reply Post New Topic
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Alibaba
 
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Quote Alibaba Replybullet Posted: 19 May 2006 at 10:05am

Angela, how interesting that you have a family line going back fairly far in America.  Actually, I'm an American living in Wales.  My family connections are with the Witherspoons of Mass., and also the Careys-first Latin teacher in the Colonies.

Also, I had ancestors who fought in the American Revolution on both sides - in fact, I'm entitled to be a member of DAR/SAR if I wanted to be.

And, I agree with you that many western nations did engage in very un-Christlike behavior - but as a whole, industrialization, scientific progress, and certainly the technological age are products of forward thinking western nations that are not shackled with regressive religious views.



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Patty
 
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Quote Patty Replybullet Posted: 19 May 2006 at 10:34am

My Dear Friend Angela said:

"This is mainly because of the poverty levels in the countries.  If you look back to the Middle Ages the Catholic Church (the only one at the time, not picking on you Patty. )  Jailed Galileo for his forward thinking and burned people at the stakes for daring to translate the Bible into the Vernacular.  Meanwhile, the Muslim countries were endulging in Science, Math, Philosophy and Astronomy."

I have never denied the wrongdoings of the Church.  To our credit, we have "seen the error of our ways" apologized, and stopped this terribly inappropriate behavior.  

I should also like to remind you that the Muslims were not exactly fuzzy teddy bears in even earlier decades, as you will agree when you read:

"In 682, when the Arabs swept through North Africa, Okba (Uqba ibn-Nefi) conquered Morocco. Under successive Moorish dynasties, beginning with Idris I (Idris bin 'Abdallah) in 788, the Berber tribes were united and the Islamic faith and Arabic language adopted. The Idrisid dynasty, an offshoot of the Umayyad dynasty, with its capital at Fès (founded in 800), lasted until 974, when it was overthrown by the Berbers. Rising in the Sahara in the early 11th century, the powerful Muslim sect of the Almoravids extended its conquests over North Africa and ultimately into Spain. 'Abdallah bin Yasin, its chief, was proclaimed ruler over Morocco in 1055. In 1147, the Almohad sect (Al-Muwahhidun), led by 'Abd al-Mumin bin 'Ali, conquered the Almoravids and ruled Morocco until 1269, when the Marinid (Beni Marin) dynasty came to power."

Hmmm, seems like we've all "sinned and come short of the Glory of God" now doesn't it?  Casting stones does none of us any good.  We are here to draw closer to understanding and peace.  I am not here to begin a "convert a Muslim" campaign.  I am happy that everyone seems to have a faith in which they strongly believe, and I think that makes God very happy too.

We just need to be permitted to say what our churches believe, and why they believe what they do, without fear of repercussion, insults, and rude behavior.  That's the purpose of true debate and mature dialogue.....and I mean this from both sides.  Can't we all agree on that? 

Peace to All,

Patty

Patty

I don't know what the future holds....but I know who holds the future.
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Patty
 
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Quote Patty Replybullet Posted: 19 May 2006 at 10:52am

Angela said,

"I have a family line that's been here since 1662, Gideon La Plante Merlett.  Look him up on the internet."

I will do that.  It would be an interesting read.

Alibaba said,

"My family connections are with the Witherspoons of Mass., and also the Careys-first Latin teacher in the Colonies. "

Ah, New England, my place of residence too.

Actually my fifth generation grandfather was John Page of Virginia, a life long friend to Thomas Jefferson, and writer of many letters to President Jefferson.  Then again, my great-grandmother Stevens was a little different, she was a prostitute who arrived on the shores of NYC from Denmark.  We could never find out who my grandmother's father was.    And Grandma Stevens became very religious in her old age.  I loved her.  She was sweet and kind.

So we're all just one big gigantic melting pot here, aren't we?  Except perhaps for my husband and his family.  They are Passamaquady Indians, or a part of the Micmac Tribes, from Maine.  They just chose to bloom where they were originally planted......right here in Maine.

God's Peace,

Patty

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I don't know what the future holds....but I know who holds the future.
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Servetus
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Quote Servetus Replybullet Posted: 19 May 2006 at 1:01pm

My friend’s psychic nutritionist assured me that my paternal grand mother thrice removed, a fan of Sarah Bernhardt up from New Orleans, died early, just off State Street in Boston, of complications related to syphilis and gonorrhea.   Fortunately for me, she did not die before receiving the seasoned voluptuary and literateur, the Earl of Shaftesbury (no pun intended), into her boudoir.

I suspect that this is why I am so dramatic and a bit of a rogue.  That said, this is my general and over all impersonation of this board lately, especially as it relates to some of the complaints from visitors (instead of a human, see this as a big alligator, getting the Persian carpet wet):  

Serv



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Angela
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Quote Angela Replybullet Posted: 19 May 2006 at 1:41pm

Serv

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herjihad
 
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Quote herjihad Replybullet Posted: 21 May 2006 at 9:58am
Originally posted by Angela

Originally posted by Alibaba

PS:  Then there are those supposedly born in America who detest that great land - well, I suppose you don't detest all the benefits you get.  The welfare programs.  The medical programs.  Shame on you.

I'm born American and Christian and I dislike the current government.  I dislike the policies of many of the lawmakers.  I speak out against war, prejudice and economic stupidity.  I enjoy these rights given to me by the poor and oppressed who came here and sweated to create this country and continued to come and build this country.  One of the greatest parts of being American is being able to disagree with the establishment.  I can make a change and a difference.  The only ones who don't have a right to complain are those who don't want to do anything to change the system.  Democracy is an interactive system.  If you just sit and complain and do nothing, then its no longer a Democracy. 

I agree that we should all try to work on fixing this poorly used, but hopefully fixable government. 

But, everyone is invited to come here (legally) and bring with them the very things that make us strong.  Diversity and Hope for a better life.

When, in the Course of human Events, it becomes necessary for one People to dissolve the Political Bands which have connected them with another, and to assume, among the Powers of the Earth, the separate and equal Station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent Respect to the Opinions of Mankind requires that they should declare the Causes which impel them to the Separation.

We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed, by their Creator, with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.

That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these Ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its Foundation on such Principles, and organizing its Powers in such Form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

Prudence indeed, will dictate, that Governments long established, should not be changed for light and transient Causes; and accordingly all Experience hath shewn, that Mankind are more disposed to suffer, while Evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the Forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long Train of Abuses and Usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object, evinces a Design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their Right, it is their Duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future Security.

That's a good document really!

Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.
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salman
 
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Quote salman Replybullet Posted: 22 May 2006 at 4:41am

Originally posted by Alibaba

Does this site promote hatred of the West

i hope it did ! but unfortunately it does not promote hatred of the west !

It is better to be alone than to be in bad company.
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Mishmish
 
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Quote Mishmish Replybullet Posted: 26 May 2006 at 11:10pm

I'm sorry George, I just now read this reply.

Quote:
Why would anyone come here to post their beliefs about Christianity?

Do they?  What I see is Christians defending their faith.  What is the meaning
of an interfaith dialog anyway?  Isn't it to discuss what we believe and why we
believe it in order to promote a better understanding of our faiths?  We don't
have to agree.  When someone posts a topic that the crucifixion is a lie,
wouldn't you expect Christians to show Muslims the reason we don't believe it to
be a lie?  How else are we going to understand each other's beliefs?

Well, I counted the threads on the Interfaith Section and of the last 20 discussed, 13 of them were started by Christians. I would assume starting a thread is not defending it.

The topic, the Crucifixion is a lie, was the fourth active thread about the crucifixion, the other three started by Christians. Perhaps Abrah was merely defending the Muslim position instead of the other way around. His choice of words may not always be the best, but the belief is that held by Muslims.

Here is an example of a post in the Interfaith Section:

fredifreeloader
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Posted: 26 April 2006 at 12:08pm | IP 84.64.180.99 Report Post Quote fredifreeloader

this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4941788.stm

is just sick. - yes the brothel is sick, and so is the ad, but im talking about the muslim protest, which (once again) took the form of threats of violence

how can muslims even protest about this, in view of this:

http://www.lexicorient.com/e.o/misyar.htm

and this:

http://www.metimes.com/articles/normal.php?StoryID=20000407- 042210-7478r

also this: sahih bukhari vol.6 book60 no.139 -----?????????

we, in the west, are sick to death of listening to muslim threats and moralizing.  as well as this constant fantasy that you are somehow being insulted by everything we say and do - get your own house in order, and then you will be qualified to address the prostitution issue

 

I can see how this is defending Christianity.

George, if you want to truly dialogue about religion, that is fine. But, in most instances that is not the case. Muslims are insulted on this board almost daily, yet when a Muslim posts something that Christians find insulting you are all up in arms. Where were the protests from you guys when Freddie created the above thread? Or any of the other numerous threads still open and being debated that we find insulting?


 

It is only with the heart that one can see clearly, what is essential is invisible to the eye. (The Little Prince)
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