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AbRah2006
 
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bullet Posted: 17 May 2006 at 8:19am

Originally posted by fredifreeloader

abrah - i have already, in the short time ive had, dared to utterly refute and expose two of your lies.  (and other people have already done much more).   deuteronomy 31: 29 does not mean that they would corrupt the law of God, it means that, being corrupt themselves, they would depart from it.  it does not mean that the holy Word of God we have now is anything other that the original Word of God

............................................................ ............................................................ .

............................................................ ............................................................ ..

Hey fredifreeloader....You had not refuted anything so far! Why don't you refute all the contradictory statements of  the OT and NT that I had given you? Your talk is cheap! I dare you to refute them! Your arrogance prove nothing to me!



Edited by AbRah2006
God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)
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bullet Posted: 17 May 2006 at 8:20am

Originally posted by AbRah2006

]

George's statement: According to Roman time, the day ran from midnight to midnight.  The Jewish 24 hour period began in the evening at 6PM and the morning of that day began at 6AM.  Therefore, when Mark asserts that at the third hour Christ was crucified, this was about 9AM. John stated that Christ's trial was about the sixth hour.  This would place the trial before the crucifixion and this would not negate any testimony of the Gospel writers.  This fits with John's other references to time.For example, he speaks about Jesus being weary from His journey from His trip from Judea to Samaria at the "sixth hour" and asking fo r water from the woman at the well.  Considering the length of his trip, his weariness, and the normal evening time when people come to the well to drink and to water their animals, this fits better with 6PM, which is "the sixth hour" of the night by Roman time reckoning.  The same is true of John's reference to the tenth hour in John 1:39, which would be 10AM, a more likely time to be out preaching than 4AM.

............................................................ ................................

Here is my response to refute George's statement:

When (at what hour) was Jesus crucified?
Was Jesus crucified the day before or the day after the Passover meal? 

According to John Jesus was crucified on the day before the Passover meal : Jn.19:14-16 And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King! But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We hav e no king but Caesar. Then delivered he him therefore unto them to be crucified.

According to Mathew Jesus was crucified on the day after the Passover meal: Mark 14:12 And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover?

Mark 15:25 And it was the third hour, and they crucified him.

The Gospels contradict themselves that proves that the Gospels are not  the reliable books so the crucifixion of Jesus is a lie. Can you win a case by giving contradictory statements to support your case in the court? Contradictions happen when the event is a fiction! If the crucifixion of Jesus is true how come the Gospels contradict one another? If the witnesses were honest and trustworthy, why did they give contradictory statements?

Why do you George lie to support your false claim that Jesus was crucified?  Aren't you ashamed of yourself? 

 

Aren't you ashamed of yourself for not understanding English?  Maybe it is not your first language and it is to be expected.

 

I gave you a lot of tools (websites) in which to find the answers to your own questions.  Why don't you use them, find the answers, and then come back with anything that is confusing you?  I will try to help you out of your confusion as best that I can.

 

Peace

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bullet Posted: 17 May 2006 at 8:26am

Originally posted by AbRah2006

 

1) I quote George's statement:YUSUFALI: The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth! I can find no evidence that the Jews ever called Uzair a son of Allah, not from Christian sources and not from Jewish sources.  I contacted a Jewish scholar and he said the same thing.

My comment: This George's article or statement has convinced me that George try to slander Quran by saying that it lies. For your knowlegede Uzair (Ezra) was a learned man of the Torah and his knowledge of the Torah had convinced some Jews to call Uzair (Ezra) a son of God for they thought he was very closed to God like a son to a father for having good knowlegde of the Torah after it was destroyed by the invaders.

Where did I say that the Qur'an lies?  I asked a question and so far no one has been able to answer it.  The Jews deny that they ever called Ezra a "son of God."

Allah claims that he has no son; YHVH claims that he does.

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bullet Posted: 17 May 2006 at 8:29am

AbRah2006

 

Since you seem to like the "Gospel" of Barnabas, maybe you could come up with some explanations for the inaccuracies in it.  Here they are:

 

1. In the Gospel of Barnabas (Chapter 1) "Barnabas" is called an Apostle. This is not correct in its implication. Although Barnabas is referred to as an Apostle (Acts 14:4,14), the Gospel of Barnabas concept is quite different.  It says in the introduction that Barnabas was one of the twelve original disciples of Jesus and he was not.

The conversion of Barnabas took place after the Day of Pentecost and consequently he does not qualify for apostleship as outlined in Acts 1:21-22.   The Day of Pentecost happened after Jesus' resurrection so Barnabas was not one of the twelve.

2. The surprised reader of the Gospel of Barnabas finds Nazareth on the shore of Lake Galilee (Chapter 20), whereas it is a town miles away from the Lake, surrounded by mountains.

3. In the next chapter, we see Jesus going UP to Capernaum, whereas Capernaum is situated right on the shore of the Lake.

4. In Chapter 151 we are told that Jesus embarked on a ship (from Nazareth?) and next we read that he arrived in Jerusalem. We might well ask whether this was also done by boat?

5. In Chapter 6 another interesting common error is found. It speaks here of the three Magi or wise men coming from the East. The New Testament does not specify the number, but gives a list of three gifts that were brought by the Magi, namely gold, myrrh and frankincense. This later led to the assumption that there were three wise men from the East. But this belief certainly does not derive or date from the New Testament.

6. In Chapters 91-92 we are told that Jesus and His disciples kept "the 40 days". The context clearly shows that this refers to the period of Lent before Easter, celebrated by the church, but from a very much later period than the days of the early church. (The church meditates at this time on the suffering of Christ, which was obviously unknown when Christ was still alive). We find that Lent was celebrated only from the fourth century A.D. onwards. Jesus and His disciples are said to have gone for the 40 day fast to Mount Sinai. which is some 450 km away. There is no report in the New Testament to confirm this.

7. We are further informed that a certain dispute would have ended in war, but the Romans assembled three armies each numbering 200,000 men at Mizpeh (Chapter 91). The entire Roman army at that time numbered only 300,000, however. (Encyclopædia Britannica).

8. "Jesus drew near to the Priest (High Priest) with reverence, but he was wishful to bow himself down and worship Jesus, when Jesus cried out: 'Beware of that which thou doest, Priest of the Living God! Sin not against our God!" (Chapter 93).

This statement is so contrary to the New Testament, that it needs no explanation.

9. In Ch apter 3 of the Gospel of Barnabas the birth of Christ is described as having been painless. This belief was not current in the Church before Thomas Aquinas (died 1278) but is mentioned in Sura 19:23

10. According to the Gospel of Barnabas Jesus was born when Pilate was governor, but in fact he only became governor between A.D. 26 and 27.

11. Jesus prayed five times a day according to the Gospel of Barnabas and all the Muslim prayer times are mentioned. (Drs. J. Slomp, page 128).

12. Not before the Fourth Century A.D. was the title "Virgin" given to Mary, yet it appears in the Gospel of Barnabas

13. Origen A.D. 184-254 was the first scholar to assume that Mount Tabor was the Mount of Transfiguration. The Bible does not confirm this. The Christian tradition that it was Mount Moriah begins only in the Third Century, and yet the Gospel of Barnabas contains this information.

14. The Gospel of Barnabas mentions four archangels, which is also a trad ition of the church that dated from the early Medieval period.

15. The Islamic concept of "the Book" is found in Chapter 10, where we read that the angel Gabriel presented to Jesus as it were a shining mirror, a book, which descended into the heart of Jesus. This corresponds very well with Suras 5:49 and 2:97.

16. In Chapter 54, the Italian text mentions a denarius, which is made up of 60 minuti. These gold coins were used only in Spain under Khalif Abdul Malik (in 685 A.D.).

17. In Chapter 152 we are informed that soldiers were "rolled out of the temple as one rolleth casks of wood when they are washed to refill them with wine."  Wooden barrels were invented in Gaul and were not used in the East in New Testament times. Wine and other liquids were stored in skins.

18. In Chapter 97 Mohammed is clearly called the Messiah. The Qur'an, as well as the Bible confers this title on Jesus. It is somehow strange to realize that in the introduction of the Gospel of Barnabas Jesus is called Christ and in Chapters 42 and 82 "Barnabas" denies that Jesus is the Messiah. Only a theologically very ignorant person could have made such statements, because "Christos" is the Greek word for the Hebrew "Messiah".

19. In "the true book of Moses ... (it) is written that Ishmael is the father of Messiah, and Isaac the father of the messenger of the Messiah" (Chapter 191).

20. In Chapter 222, the last chapter of the Gospel of Barnabas, we read: "After Jesus had departed (after having been raised from his hiding place through the window of the house in the Garden of Gethsemane) the disciples scattered through the different parts of Israel and of the world, and the truth, hated of Satan, was persecuted, as it always is, by falsehood. For certain evil men, pretending to be disciples, preached that Jesus died and rose not again. Others preached that he really died, but rose again. Others preached and yet preach that Jesus is the Son of God, among whom is Paul deceived."

The Gospel of Barnabas herewith endeavours to correct preceding Gospels and Paul. We wish to ask the question when and how was the writer aware that the disciples had scattered throughout the different parts of the world? This question is left open, but easily answered by us, for we believe that it is yet another anachronism.

21. The Italian poet Dante lived about the time of the composition of the Gospel of Barnabas (1265-1321) and it is interesting to notice a number of quotations from Dante's works in the Gospel of Barnabas There are many and they can hardly be regarded as coincidences. The Gospel of Barnabas quotes Jesus as saying to Peter: "Know ye therefore, that hell is one, yet hath seven centres one below another. Hence, even as sin is of seven kinds, for as seven gates of hell has Satan generated it: So are seven punishments therein." (Chapter 135a).

This is exactly what Dan te says in Cantos V, VI, etc. of his "Inferno". Again "Barnabas" says that God, having created the human senses, condemned them "to hell and to intolerable snow and ice" (Chapter 106, which corresponds with Cantos XXVIII and III of the "Inferno"). The description of human sins and their returning at the end like a river to Satan, who is their source, is another indirect quotation from Dante's description of the rivers of hell. Similarly, the passages about the believers going to hell, not to be tortured, but to see the unbelievers in their torments, recalls to mind Dante's picture of the same. The differentiation between degrees of glory, and the absence of all feuds and jealousies in heaven, are taken entirely from Dante's "Paradise", Canto III. But still stronger evidence that "Barnabas" quotes directly or indirectly from Dante is his description of the "Geography of Heaven". There "Barnabas" agrees with Dante and contradicts even the Qur'an itself. The Qur'an (Sura 2:29) says th at the heavens are seven in number, while "Barnabas" gives the number as nine (Chapter 178a) (Gairdner, pages 19-21).

These few indications are sufficient evidence that the writer of the Gospel of Barnabas must have been acquainted with the writings of Dante and consequently must have I lived after Dante, or else been a contemporary of his.

22. In Chapter 145 of the Gospel of Barnabas Pharisees date back as far as the time of Elijah and there were supposed to have been 17,000. In fact, history first knows about Pharisees seven centuries later, in the period between 135-104 B.C.

23. In Chapter 82 mention is made of the "Years of the Jubilee, which now cometh every 100 years." The Year of Jubilee, according to the Old Testament, was every 50th year (after seven times seven years). The origin of this faulty information is as follows: In the year A.D. 1300 Pope Boniface the VIII instituted the Jubilee as a centenary event. Owing to its financial success, however , Pope Clement VI reversed Boniface's decision and celebrated the next Jubilee in 1350. This was thus the only time that the Year of Jubilee was intended as a centenary occasion - it never was in practice. (Gairdner, page 19).

24. Eve is said to have eaten an "apple" in Paradise (Chapters 40 and 41). We are well aware that Eve ate an unspecified fruit, but the belief that this was an apple dates from a very much later date.

25. Another proof of the Gospel of Barnabas being Medieval in origin, is that we have a report (Chapter 99) of a duel between two rival lovers. This type of chivalry was a creation of Medieval society (Gairdner, page 24).

26. In Chapter 80 of the Gospel of Barnabas we find a story about Daniel, which has it that he was taken captive by Nebuchadnezzar while he was yet two years old. This statement, it will be observed, is incompatible with what may be inferred from the Bible narrative. According to the latter, it was in the second year of his reign that Nebuchadnezzar had his famous dream, which Daniel interpreted.

"Then the King gave Daniel high honours and many great gifts, and made him ruler over the whole province of Babylon, and chief prefect over the all-wise men of Babylon." (Daniel 2:48).

Now if we suppose that Nebuchadnezzar captured Daniel in the first year of his reign (the earliest possible date, which could be assigned to Daniel's captivity) and that, according to "Barnabas", Daniel was then two years old, it would follow then that in the second year of Nebuchadnezzar's reign, Daniel was only three years old (Gairdner, page 26). Daniel was in fact born in 621 B.C. and the captivity began in 605 B.C., so he was 16 years old when taken prisoner.

27. We read that Ishmael was offered on the altar by Abraham (Chapter 44). This is clearly an Islamic concept.

28. God is said to be the God of Abraham, ISHMAEL and Isaac in Chapter 212. It should read, according to the O.T. the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob.

29. We find it highly suspicious and wrong to read that the Torah was written by an Ismaelite (Chapter 192).

30. Most suspicious of course, is any mentioning of the name of Mohammed. (In Chapters 44, 54, 112, 97 and 163, etc.) It is particularly suspicious, since all the other evidence points to the fact that the whole of the G.o.B is a Medieval forgery. But other Islamic thought is also reflected in the Gospel of Barnabas

31. In Chapter 39 Adam sees bright writing and the content is none other than the Kalimah. There is only one God" and "Mohammed is the Messenger of God."

32. Muslims who accept the Gospel of Barnabas ought to consider the fact that in Chapter 115 it very strongly endorses monogamy.

33. Likewise we refer to Chapter 38, in which the Islamic principle of abrogation is rejected.

Peace

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bullet Posted: 17 May 2006 at 8:32am

George's Answer:  The tree is the cross.  The Romans made their crosses from trees. 

George's statement: Crosses were made out of trees, AbRah2006.  The crosses were made out of wood.  Wood comes from trees.  Get it?

 

------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------

My answer for George:

I quote your own word ' The tree is the cross.  The Romans made their crosses from trees. '.....How can you claim that the tree is the cross when the cross is made of wood?

 

Oh you mean that a burger is a cow for the burger is made out of beef. And beef comes from cow. Why don't you call a cow a burger whenever you meet it? Funny , isn't it?

 

Oh you mean that a pencil is a tree for for the pencil is made of wood and wood comes from trees....How clever are you to say that the cross is the tree ...and the pencil is a tree too so the cross is a pencil according to your logic? lol.......Your joke is entertaining me hahahaahah!...Can you put a tree in your pocket?

 

What about the iron crosses? Are they the trees too?

We can call apple a tree...Can we call a cross a tree? Can you call milk a cow for the milk comes from a cow? YOU CAN'T !

 



Edited by AbRah2006
God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)
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bullet Posted: 17 May 2006 at 8:33am

Originally posted by AbRah2006

2) We Muslims believe that the original teachings of Jesus are the truth of God but his teachings were corrupted into a lie by the Christians.

Response:  The Qur'an does not say that.

Originally posted by AbRah2006

]

For example: (1) Christ taught non-resistance


          Matt 5:39/ Matt 26:52
         Christ taught and practiced physical resistance
          Luke 22:36/ John 2:15 

Response:

Matthew 5: 39 But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.

Matthew 26: 52 But Jesus said to him, “Put your sword in its place, for all who take the sword will perish by the sword.

Luke 22:36 Then He said to them, “But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one.

John 2:15 When He had made a whip of cords, He drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and the oxen, and poured out the changers’ money and overturned the tables.

There are two possible interpretations of Luke 22:36.  This first one is:

 

Luke 22:36, "He said to them, 'but now if you have a purse, take it and also a bag; and if you don't have a Fsword, sell your cloak and buy one."

 

Verse 36 put into context:  Luke 22:35-38: Then Jesus asked [his disciples], “When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?” “Nothing,” they answered. He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. It is written: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors’; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment (His death on the cross).” The disciples said, “See, Lord, here are two swords.” “That is enough,” he replied. (NIV)

 

First some background.  Some Christians believe that we are to be pacifists to the extent of it being unlawful for a Christian to defend himself and "turn the other cheek" in all circumstances.  The pacifists suggest that Jesus was only speaking figuratively here.  However, there are those who believe that Jesus was advocating that self-defense is lawful. 

 

Prior to His crucifixion, Jesus revealed to His disciples the future hostility they would face and encouraged them to sell their outer garments in order to buy a sword.  Here the "sword" (Greek: maxairan) is a dagger or short sword that belonged to the Jewish traveler's equipment as protection against robbers and wild animals.  A plain reading of the passage can indicate that Jesus approved of self-defense.

 

Self-defense may actually result in one of the greatest examples of human love. Christ Himself said, "Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends" (John 15:14).  When protecting one's family or neighbor, a Christian is unselfishly risking his or her life for the sake of others. 

To go a step further, when Jesus instructed us to love our neighbors He was really asking us to risk our lives for others.  To permit murder when one could have prevented it is morally wrong.  To allow a rape when one could have hindered it is an evil.  To watch an act of cruelty to children without trying to intervene is morally inexcusable.  In brief, not resisting evil is an evil of omission, and an evil of omission can be just as evil as an evil of commission.  Any man who refuses to protect his wife and children against a violent intruder fails them morally. 

Jesus prescribed the sword here because he was preparing his disciples for his departure (His death).  During his earthly ministry, the disciples were protected by an extraordinary providence.  This, however, was about to change.

 

In the “High Priestly Prayer,” Jesus prayed, “While I was with them I protected them and kept them safe by the Name you gave me” (John 17:12). There are numerous instances of the protection of this extraordinary providence in the Gospels.  In Luke 8:22-25, for example, we read the account of Jesus and his disciples being in a boat when a squall came upon them.  The text explicitly tells us, “they were in great danger” (8:23).  And yet, Jesus rebukes them for exhibiting “little faith.”

 

The reason for his rebuke is that Jesus was not going to die by drowning.  Nor was he was going to die at the hands of robbers.  He was going to die on the cross.  And so, as long as he was with them, no harm could possibly come to them. But now he was going away, and with him the protection of an extraordinary providence.  The disciples must now rely on the ordinary means of God’s protection.  And so he says, “But now . . .  if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.”

 

From Jesus’ teachings we know that He did NOT mean He would be wanting them to defend Him, or to use force to get people to submit to His message nor was Jesus wanting His followers to live by the sword - to dominate and control people’s lives by force, or to have an armed uprising. Jesus never used those tactics Himself, and He wouldn’t want His followers to either.

 

By telling His followers to be equipped with a sword Jesus was warning them to expect fierce opposition and hardship in their service for Him. "In fact," the Bible says, "everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted."  (2nd Timothy 3:12)

 

Even as Jesus spoke with His disciples the religious leaders were waiting their opportunity to destroy Jesus. They knew that if the people were to repent - to turn from them to Jesus - and to believe in Jesus for the forgiveness of their sins, (Acts 20:21; 26:20; 5:31) then their words and actions would be known to be empty and powerless! For this reason all those who have preached the true message of Jesus down through the ages have been despised and rejected and bitterly opposed by religious leaders.

 

The vitally important point made here is that Christ’s Kingdom is something that cannot be promulgated or enforced by the sword.  His Kingdom is not of this world (Jn. 18:36).  The weapons used to advance his Kingdom must not be the weapons of the world (2 Cor. 10:4-5).  The Kingdom that Jesus was establishing would be advanced through the cross, not by the wielding of the sword.  Thus, the weapons of the world must never be taken up by Christians to advance the cause of the Christ.  The sword must be used for defensive purpos es only. Jesus explicitly proscribed (proscribe means to condemn or forbid as harmful or unlawful) the sword as a way of advancing his Kingdom.

 

The Kingdom that Jesus established will one day dominate and do away with all others (Dan. 2:31-45, 1 Cor. 15:24-25).  Because the Prince of Peace has come, the day will eventually come when we will beat our swords into plowshares and our spears into pruning hooks.  But that day is not now.  “Now,” Jesus says, “If you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.”

 

The second one is: 

The disciples take Jesus' remarks literally and incorrectly. They note that they have two swords, but Jesus cuts off the discussion. Something is not right, but it is too late to discuss it. As the arrest will show, they have misunderstood. They draw swords then and one disciple cuts the ear of one of those who came to take Jesus away before His crucifixion, but Jesus said "Put your sword in its place, for all who take the sword will perish by the sword." He is not telling them to buy swords to wield in physical battle. They will have to provide for themselves and fend for themselves, but not through the shedding of blood. They are being drawn into a great cosmic struggle, and they must fight with spiritual swords and resources. The purchase of swords serves only to picture this coming battle. This fight requires special weapons (Eph 6:10-18). 

John 2:13-17, Now the Passover of the Jews was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem. 14 And He found in the temple those who sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the money changers doing business. 15 When He had made a whip of cords, He drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and the oxen, and poured out the changers’ money and overturned the tables. 16 And He said to those who sold doves, “Take these things away! Do not make My Father’s house a house of merchandise!” 17 Then His disciples remembered that it was written, “Zeal for Your house has eaten Me up.”

What does Jesus driving out the people who were making the Temple a house of merchandise have to do with non-resistance?  You are mixing apples and oranges.  Did you actually read this scriptures?

Peace
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bullet Posted: 17 May 2006 at 8:37am

Originally posted by AbRah2006

(2)Christ warned his followers not to fear being killed
          Luke 12:4
         Christ himself avoided the Jews for fear of being killed
          John 7:1 

Response:

Luke 12: 4 “And I say to you, My friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. 5 But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear Him who, after He has killed, has power to cast into hell; yes, I say to you, fear Him!

Comment:  You have taken this verse out of context.  Jesus is telling them that they should have no fear if someone kills their body; and explaining that they should fear "Him" who has the power to cast them into hell—God.  I think you would agree with this.

John 7:  1 After these things Jesus walked in Galilee; for He did not want to walk in Judea, because the Jews sought to kill Him. 2 Now the Jews’ Feast of Tabernacles was at hand. 3 His brothers therefore said to Him, “Depart from here and go into Judea, that Your disciples also may see the works that You are doing. 4 For no one does anything in secret while he himself seeks to be known openly. If You do these things, show Yourself to the world.” 5 For even His brothers did not believe in Him.  6 Then Jesus said to them, “My time has not yet come, but your time is always ready. 7 The world cannot hate you, but it hates Me because I testify of it that its works are evil. 8 You go up to this feast. I am not yet going up to this feast, for My time has n ot yet fully come.” 9 When He had said these things to them, He

Comment:  You need to use some common sense here.  Jesus mission was not completed.  The Jews sought to kill him.  What do you think?  That Jesus should have marched up to the Jews and said, "Here I am, kill me now" when he hadn't completed his mission?  You could look at this like someone who has two roads in which to choose to get to a certain destination—one that is dark and notorious for robberies and murders—and one that is well-lit and protected, a safe road.  What kind of a person would choose the more dangerous road opposed to the safer one?

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bullet Posted: 17 May 2006 at 8:38am
Originally posted by AbRah2006

George's statement:

Crosses were made out of trees, AbRah2006.  The crosses were made out of wood.  Wood comes from trees.  Get it?

 

------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------

My answer for George:

Oh you mean that a burger is a cow for the burger is made out of beef. And beef comes from cow. Why don't you call a cow a burger whenever you meet it? Funny , isn't it?

 

Oh you mean that a pencil is a tree for for the pencil is made of wood and wood comes from trees....How clever are you to say that the cross is the tree ...and the pencil is a tree too so the cross is a pencil according to your logic? lol.......Your joke is entertaining me hahahaahah!

 

What about the iron crosses? Are they the tree too?

AbRah,

You are making yourself look foolish in front of the Christians and your fellow Muslims.

Peace

 

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