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Interfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Interfaith Dialogue
Message Icon Topic: The Crucifixion of Jesus(Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post Reply Post New Topic
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Patty
 
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bullet Posted: 15 May 2006 at 2:04pm

AbRAH said:

"Hey George ... it seems to me that you are the one who do very poor homework for you dare not refute all the Biblical verses that I use to prove that the crucifixion of Jesus is a hoax! Why don't you refute all the Biblical verses to prove that you are right? I dare you to refute all the contradictions of the Bible!"


Why is this person continually allowed by the moderator(s) to insult Christians and their beliefs?  We are very careful not to say anything which would be considered an insult to Islam.  Why is that not reciprocated on this board?  Are you people still teenagers?  Are you unable to behave like adults and carry on adult dialogue and debate?  If not, for what reason do you even have this topic on your board?  I personally think if Allah is all you claim, He must be extremely saddened to see and read the words of some Muslims here.  Did Allah tell you to insult and disrespect Christians and their religion?  (I hope I haven't just answered my own question here.)

God's Peace,

Patty

Patty

I don't know what the future holds....but I know who holds the future.
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Alibaba
 
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bullet Posted: 15 May 2006 at 2:18pm
Actually, I find the very title of this thread to be demeaning to Christianity and contrary to the rules of courtesy on Islamic City.  For goodness sake, if we ever put up a thread titled "Mohammed is a Hoax" or something similar it would be deleted immediately.  Where is the fairness here Oh monitors?
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Patty
 
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bullet Posted: 15 May 2006 at 2:30pm

I have a question.  If Muslims believe that Jesus was a great prophet, why do they not believe the words He spoke?  He told of His forthcoming death to His disciples.  Do you believe he was lying?  And if you do believe He was lying, how could you continue to call a "liar" a great prophet?

Jesus spoke the following, "shortly before His crucifixion He said to His disciples, "The hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified." John 12:23. 

The third day after Jesus had died on the cross, God raised Him from the dead, and forty days later, God lifted Him up to glory in the heavens. One day Jesus will return to receive those who belong to Him.

13 "We do not want you to be unaware, brothers, about those who have fallen asleep, so that you may not grieve like the rest, who have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose, so too will God, through Jesus, bring with him those who have fallen asleep."

1 Thessalonians 4:13-14

God's Peace,

Patty

Patty

I don't know what the future holds....but I know who holds the future.
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AbRah2006
 
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bullet Posted: 15 May 2006 at 5:02pm
Alibaba
 

No, Jesus appeared at the very beginning of Sunday, at the end of his third night in the tomb, to His disciples amd the women.  There were two sabbaths in that particular week, and one day of preparation.  But, in any case, since you think it's all a "hoax" why even bother answering your query. What if I said the existence of Mohammed is a hoax.

In any case, the very fact that His disciples were empowered to go forth and preach His gospel, making Christianity the greatest religious movement the world has ever witnessed, proves to your dismay, that this was not a hoax.

------------------------------------------------------------ ------

Here are my responses to Alibaba:

(1)Let us go back to your calculation :

Wednesday evening to Thursday evening - 1 day

Thursday evening to Friday evening - day two

Friday evening to Saturday evening - day three

Sunday morning - the Resurrection

My comment: Saturday evening to Sunday morning -day 4 ......That means you are against the Gospels that says Jesus was resurrected on the third day!

(2) The existence of Jesus and Muhammad is not a hoax for they are the messengers of God! The crucifixion of Jesus is a hoax because the Bible contradicts itself by making contradictory statements about the crucifixion of Jesus.  Can you win your case in the court if you have contradictory statements to support your case? The court will say that you are a liar and your case is a lie!



Edited by AbRah2006
God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)
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AbRah2006
 
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bullet Posted: 15 May 2006 at 5:23pm
Patty
 

AbRAH said:

"Hey George ... it seems to me that you are the one who do very poor homework for you dare not refute all the Biblical verses that I use to prove that the crucifixion of Jesus is a hoax! Why don't you refute all the Biblical verses to prove that you are right? I dare you to refute all the contradictions of the Bible!"


Why is this person continually allowed by the moderator(s) to insult Christians and their beliefs?  We are very careful not to say anything which would be considered an insult to Islam.  Why is that not reciprocated on this board?  Are you people still teenagers?  Are you unable to behave like adults and carry on adult dialogue and debate?  If not, for what reason do you even have this topic on your board?  I personally think if Allah is all you claim, He must be extremely saddened to see and read the words of some Muslims here.  Did Allah tell you to insult and disrespect Christians and their religion?  (I hope I haven't just answered my own question here.)

------------------------------------------------------------ ------

Here is my response to Patty: It is not my intention to insult Christians and their belief but I have to expose the truth that Jesus was never crucified so  I quote the Biblical verses to support my statements. Why are you so angry when I expose the truth that Jesus was not crucified using the Biblical verses?

How do you know that Allah (God) must be extremely saddened to see and read the words of some Muslims here? Does Allah tell you that? Have you spoken to Allah?

Here is my answer for you: 'There is no compulsion in religion. The right direction is henceforth distinct from error. And he who rejecteth false deities and believeth in Allah hath grasped a firm handhold which will never break. Allah is Hearer, Knower [Qur'an 2:256] '



Edited by AbRah2006
God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)
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bullet Posted: 15 May 2006 at 5:29pm

Alibaba 'Actually, I find the very title of this thread to be demeaning to Christianity and contrary to the rules of courtesy on Islamic City.  For goodness sake, if we ever put up a thread titled "Mohammed is a Hoax" or something similar it would be deleted immediately.  Where is the fairness here Oh monitors? '

------------------------------------------------------------ ------

Here is my response to Alibaba: You can put up a thread titled "Mohammed is a Hoax" or something similar  and it is my pleasure to refute your lies.

God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)
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AbRah2006
 
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bullet Posted: 15 May 2006 at 5:49pm

Patty 'I have a question.  If Muslims believe that Jesus was a great prophet, why do they not believe the words He spoke?  He told of His forthcoming death to His disciples.  Do you believe he was lying?  And if you do believe He was lying, how could you continue to call a "liar" a great prophet?'

------------------------------------------------------------ ------

Here are my responses to Patty:

1)We Muslims believe that Jesus is a great prophet of Allah : The Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was only the Messenger of God, and His Word that He committed to Mary, and a Spirit from Him. So believe in God and His Messengers, and say not "Three". Refrain; better it is for you. God is only one God. Glory be to Him -- (He is) above having a son” (Quran 4:171).

2) We Muslims believe that the original teachings of Jesus are the truth of God but his teachings were corrupted into a lie by the Christians. For example: (1) Christ taught non-resistance
          Matt 5:39/ Matt 26:52
         Christ taught and practiced physical resistance
          Luke 22:36/ John 2:15

(2)Christ warned his followers not to fear being killed
          Luke 12:4
         Christ himself avoided the Jews for fear of being killed
          John 7:1
(3)Public prayer sanctioned
          1 Kings 8:22,54, 9:3
         Public prayer disapproved
          Matt 6:5,6

(4)The infant Christ was taken into Egypt
          Matt 2:14,15,19,21,23
         The infant Christ was not taken into Egypt
          Luke 2:22, 39
(5)Christ was crucified at the third hour
          Mark 15:25
         Christ was not crucified until the sixth hour
          John 19:14,15
(6)Christ was to be three days and three nights in the grave
          Matt 12:40
         Christ was but two days and two nights in the grave
          Mark 15:25,42,44,45,46; 16:9>
(7)Christ ascended from Mount Olivet
          Acts 1:9,12
         Christ ascended from Bethany
          Luke 24:50,51
(8)Christ is equal with God
           John 10:30/ Phil 2:5
          Christ is not equal with God
           John 14:28/ Matt 24:36
(9)Jesus was all-powerful
           Matt 28:18/ John 3:35
          Jesus was not all-powerful
           Mark 6:5

Would you attribute those errors to God and Jesus? If the Bible contained conflicting verses would you still consider it to be Holy? Most likely you will say of course not.

In Islam Jesus is a prophet of God so he will not contradict his own words . After all Jesus had received the teachings from Allah (God) Who will never contradict His own Word for Allah is the All Wise.

The errors and contradictions of the Bible (the OT and NT) is the cause why Allah(God) sends the Holy Quran as His final revelation to all mankind through His last messenger the prophet Muhammad to replace the  Bible, Torah etc!

Allah Himself has promised to guard the Qur’an: "We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly Guard it (from corruption) [Al-Qur’an 15:9]. The Quran is Allah's greatest blessing for you . It is the fulfillment of His promise to Adam and his descendants:

 Then learnt Adam from his Lord words of inspiration, and his Lord turned towards him; for He is Oft-Returning, Most Merciful. We said: "Get ye down all from here; and if, as is sure, there comes to you Guidance from me, whosoever follows My guidance, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.  "But those who reject Faith and belie Our Signs, they shall be Companions of the Fire; they shall abide therein." (Quran 002:037 -039)

God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)
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AbRah2006
 
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bullet Posted: 15 May 2006 at 6:43pm
Patty 'He told of His forthcoming death to His disciples.  Do you believe he was lying?  And if you do believe He was lying, how could you continue to call a "liar" a great prophet?

Jesus spoke the following, "shortly before His crucifixion He said to His disciples, "The hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified." John 12:23. 

The third day after Jesus had died on the cross, God raised Him from the dead, and forty days later, God lifted Him up to glory in the heavens. One day Jesus will return to receive those who belong to Him.'

------------------------------------------------------------ ------

Here is my response to Patti:

Many Christians believe that Jesus came to redeem man to God by His death on the cross and to forgive man's sins. In some instances we have the death of Jesus, yet at other times you see the same Christians making the claim that Jesus "lives." Did he actually die or does he live? It cannot work both ways. Even if the death means a temporary death, it gives little value for an eternal sacrifice. But regardless of which way one believes, the morality of such an act deserves questioning.

If anyone believes his prediction in Matt 26:2, then Jesus must have known of his upcoming crucifixion. As we all know that Christians claim that Jesus is God. If Jesus equals a god, then he could not have sacrificed his life, simply because an infinite god cannot die. If Jesus died as just a man, then he committed what we would today call suicide.

Did Jesus redeem man from his sacrifice? History shows that violence of man against man has increased since the alleged "sacrifice." Wars, terrorist acts, murders, and suicides have occurred because of faithful acts in the name of Jesus. It appears that the sacrifice resembles the curse of a demon rather than that of a savior. Furthermore, believing that his death forgives sins only provides reason for committing them in the first place. Why should anyone feel so disagreeable about committing sins when they feel that Jesus has already forgiven them? No wonder jails contain so many Christian zealots. Regardless of how "Caesar's" laws treat them, they think of themselves as specially forgiven.

God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)
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