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AbRah2006
 
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Quote AbRah2006 Replybullet Topic: In Islam Jesus is a great prophet of God.
    Posted: 13 May 2006 at 5:59am

In Islam Jesus is a great prophet of God and  Jesus is neither God nor the son of God.

1)Jesus is not God because Jesus is a messenger of God: And when Jesus son of Mary said. 'children of Israel. I am indeed the Messenger to you, confirming the Torah that is before me, and giving good tidings of a Messenger who shall come after me, whose name shall be the praised one (note that this is translation of Ahmad which is Prophet Muhammad’s name). (Quran 61:6)...In Matthew 21:11, the people of his time are recorded as referring to Jesus as a prophet: And the crowds said, ‘This is the prophet Jesus of Nazareth of Galilee.’ ”  ...Therefore Jesus is a prophet of God so Jesus is not God

2)Jesus is not God because Jesus was created by God.As we all know that God exists by Himself but Jesus was born by Mary so Jesus is neither God nor the son of God:

a) Jesus is not the son of God for Jesus is the son of Mary. That is Jesus, son of Mary, in word of truth, concerning which they are doubting. It is not for God to take a son unto Him. Glory be to Him! When He decrees a thing. He but says to it "Be". and it is. (Quran 19:34-5).

The Bible itself calls Jesus the son of man so many times throughout the Bible to prove that Jesus is a human being.

Furthermore, verses like John 3:2, John 6:14, John 7:40, Matthew 21:11, Luke 7:16 and 24:19 confirm that Jesus accepted the title of teacher, Prophet and called himself the son of man in Matthew 8:20, 12:40, 17:9 & 12, 26:24, Luke 9:26, 22:48, 22:69, and 24:7. The most conclusive verse that says Jesus is the son (servant) of man is Mark 14:26 where Jesus is mentioning the Day of Reckoning. Jesus specifically said we would see the son of man, not the Son of God, sitting in the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. 

Since the Hebrews believed that God is One, and had neither wife nor children in any literal sense, it is obvious that the expression “son of God” merely meant to them “Servant of God”; one who, because of his faithful service, was close and dear to God, as a son is to a father.

Consequently, the use of the term “son of God” should only be understood from the Semitic symbolic sense of a “servant of God”, and not in the pagan sense of a literal offspring of God. In the four Gospels, Jesus is recorded as saying: Blessed are the peace-makers; they will be called sons of God.”(Matthew 5:9)

Qur’an clarifies that Jesus’ virgin birth did not change the state of his humanity “Surely, the example of Jesus, in Allah’s sight, is like that of Adam.  He created him from dust and said: ‘Be!’ and he was.” (Qur’an, 3:59).

The act of begetting is a physical act and such act is against God’s nature. The Qur’an 19:35 says: "It is not befitting to (the majesty of) Allah that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! When He determines a matter He only says to it "Be," and it is." (Maryam  19:35)

Therefore God has no sons for God is One and Only: Moses says "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord." (Deuteronomy 6:4) , Jesus says "...The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; the Lord our God is one Lord." (Mark 12:29) and the prophet Muhammad says "And your God is One God: There is no God but He, ..." (The Qur'an 2:163)

3. Jesus is not God because Jesus is a servant of God: “[When] she pointed to him, they asked, ‘How can we talk to a child in the cradle?’ He [Jesus] said: ‘Indeed, I am a servant of Allaah. He gave me the scripture and made me a prophet.’ ” (Qur’an 19:29-30)

 Jesus is a servant of God so Jesus is not God: “The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus” (Acts 3:13). 

4. Jesus is not God for Jesus is made of flesh. On the contrary God is not made of flesh.

5. Jesus is not God for Jesus look like human being and he needs to drink and eat in order to live. On the contrary God is the Self-Sufficient and God says that none is like God so Jesus is not God.

The Qur’anic revelation not only affirms Jesus’ prophethood, but it also clearly denies Jesus’ divinity.  In Chapter al-Maa’idah, (5): 78, God points out that Jesus ate food, which is a human act, obviously not befitting to God: 

Christ the son of Mary was no more than an apostle; many were the apostles that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how God doth make His signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth!

   Jesus is not God for  Jesus is a human being who is thirsty and hungry "Jesus saith, I thirst."  (John, 19:28) and "and on the
morrow, when they were come from Bethany, he was hungry." (Mark, 11:12)

Jesus was a man who spoke the truth which he heard from God: Jesus says to the Israelites: "You are determined to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God" (John 8:40). Jesus is referred to as a “man”, distinct and different from God.Therefore Jesus is a man and he is not God! After all it is Allah (God) who has created man. A creation of God cannot become God!

There are also verses in the Qur‘aan which confirm Prophet Muhammad’s humanity, in order to prevent his followers from elevating him to a divine or semi-divine status, as was done to Prophet Jesus.  For example:The prophet Muhammad says “Say: ‘Indeed, I am only a man like you to whom it has been revealed that your God is only one God.’ ”(The Holy Quran Chapter al-Kahf (18):110)

6. In Islam Allah(God) is the Almighty but Jesus is a powerless man who depends on God's help and permissions so Jesus is not God for there are no powerless gods. During his prophetic mission, Jesus performed many miracles.  

Quran says in 5.113 Then will God say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Recount My favour to thee and to thy mother. Behold! I strengthened thee with the Holy Spirit, so that thou didst speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. Behold! I taught thee the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel and behold! thou makest out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, by My leave, and thou breathest into it and it becometh a bird by My leave, and thou healest those born blind, and the lepers, by My leave. And behold! thou bringest forth the dead by My leave. And behold! I did restrain the Children of Israel from (violence to) thee when thou didst show them the clear Signs, and the unbelievers among them said: 'This is nothing but evident magic.'

Jesus is a powerless man so Jesus is not God: Jesus is quoted in John 5:30, as saying "I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me"...This means that Jesus cannot do anythiing without God's permission and help... Note: The prophets of Allah(God) had done some miracles but they were not God for they did the miracles through God's help and permission. Without Allah's permission and help, they could not do anything.

7. Jesus himself denies that he is God by saying: (a) There are numerous clear and direct texts in which Jesus denies equality with God or possessing any of God’s divine attributes (see for example John 8: 28-29, 14: 10, 24. 28. 31. Mk. 13: 32, 10: 18) . For example: In John 14:28, Jesus was saying: “The Father is greater than I.By stating that the “Father” is greater than himself, Jesus distinguishes himself from God. Therefore Jesus is not God for Jesus is not God's co-equal! 

(b)The final scripture, the Qur’aan, clarifies the issue of worshipping or not worshipping Jesus, by quoting a conversation which will take place between Jesus and God on the Day of Judgement:  

 'And behold! God will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of God'?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden." '(Quran 5:119)

There are Christians who believe that Jesus is God but the Bible  refutes their claim by  God’s own declaration affirms the doctrine of the immutability of God. For example: Numbers 23:19: 'God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent' and in Malachi 3:6 God says, "For l am the Lord; I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed."

Therefore Jesus is not God for Jesus is a man and God is not a man.

Quran has differentiated between God and His creations:

(1) Surah 112 - Al Ikhlas THE PURITY OF FAITH

112.001 Say: He is God, the One and Only;

112.002 God, the Eternal, Absolute;

112.003 He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;

112.004 And there is none like unto Him.

(2) Who Is Allah?  He is God; there is no god but He. He is the Knower of the unseen and the visible; He is the All-Merciful, the All-Compassionate. He is God; there is no god but He. He is the King, the All-Holy, the All-Peace, the Guardian of the Faith, the All-Preserver, the All-Mighty, the All-Compeller, the All-Sublime. Glory be to God, above that they associate! He is God, the Creator, the Maker, the Shaper. To Him belong the Names Most Beautiful. All that is in the heavens and the earth magnifies Him; He is the Almighty, the All-Wise” (Quran 59:22-24).

             “ There is no god but He, the Living, the Everlasting. Slumber seizes Him not, nor sleep. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and the earth. Who is there that shall intercede with Him save by His leave? He knows what lies before them, and what is after them, and they comprehend not anything of His knowledge save such as He wills. His throne comprises the heavens and earth. The preserving of them oppresses Him not; He is the All-High, the All-Glorious” (Quran 2:255).

(3) Who is Jesus? “ The Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was only the Messenger of God, and His Word that He committed to Mary, and a Spirit from Him. So believe in God and His Messengers, and say not "Three". Refrain; better it is for you. God is only one God. Glory be to Him -- (He is) above having a son” (Quran 4:171).

Part of Prophet Jesus’ message was to inform his followers of the prophet who would come after him. As John the Baptist heralded the coming of Jesus Christ, Jesus in turn heralded the coming of the last of the prophets of God, Muhammad:

Quran 61:6 And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said: "O Children of Israel! I am the apostle of God (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me, and giving Glad Tidings of an Apostle to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad." But when he came to them with Clear Signs, they said, "this is evident sorcery!"

Quran 61:7 Who doth greater wrong than one who invents falsehood against God, even as he is being invited to Islam? And God guides not those who do wrong.

According to the Gosple Jesus had prophesied the coming of Prophet Muhammad.In the Gospel according to John 14:16, Jesus is quoted as saying, “And I will pray the Father, and he will give you another Counselor, to be with you for ever.”

Christians try to corrupt this prophecy to reject Muhammad who is the Last Messenger of God by saying falsely that the “Counselor” is the Holy Spirit. However, the phrase “another Counselor” implies that it will be someone else like Jesus and not the Holy Spirit. The  “Counselor” is not the Holy Spirit because—according to the Gospels —the Holy Spirit was already present in the world prior to Jesus’ birth. According  John 16:7  16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.The  “Counselor” would come after Jesus was gone.

Please refer to www.sultan.org for more information.

 

 



 


 



Edited by AbRah2006
God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)
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Quote DavidC Replybullet Posted: 13 May 2006 at 6:41am
I find this more interesting, as it indicates Allah communicated directly with Jesus and that Allah granted Jesus the power to over life and death.  I believe Muhummad was a great prophet, but there is a reason Allah granted Jesus these unprecedented powers and appointed Jesus to rule over human souls instead of Muhummad.

I understand why Muslims find Christians illogical at times, but the Qu'ran says Allah intended Jesus to provide "clear signs". Discussing the semantics of "is Jesus God" really does not seem to be a productive effort and I think Muslims would be better served by acknowledging the "clear signs" the Qu'ran documents.

5:110 Then will Allah say: "O jesus the son of Mary! Recount My favour to thee and to thy mother. Behold! I strengthened thee with the holy spirit, so that thou didst speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. Behold! I taught thee the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel and behold! thou makest out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, by My leave, and thou breathest into it and it becometh a bird by My leave, and thou healest those born blind, and the lepers, by My leave. And behold! thou bringest forth the dead by My leave. And behold! I did restrain the Children of Israel from (violence to) thee when thou didst show them the clear Signs, and the unbelievers among them said: 'This is nothing but evident magic.'
David C.
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Quote Mishmish Replybullet Posted: 13 May 2006 at 8:23pm

All of the Prophets and Messengers provided "clear signs" from God. That was their purpose.

2:92 There came to you Moses with clear (signs); yet ye worshipped the calf (Even) after that, and ye did behave wrongfully.

2:118 Say those without knowledge: "Why speaketh not Allah unto us? or why cometh not unto us a Sign?" So said the people before them words of similar import. Their hearts are alike. We have indeed made clear the signs unto any people who hold firmly to Faith (in their hearts).

2:145 Even if thou wert to bring to the people of the Book all the signs (together), they would not follow Thy Qibla; nor art thou going to follow their Qibla; nor indeed will they follow each other's Qibla. If thou after the knowledge hath reached thee, Wert to follow their (vain) desires,-then wert thou Indeed (clearly) in the wrong.

2:211 Ask the Children of Israel how many clear (signs) We have sent them. But if any one, after Allah's favour has come to him, substitutes (something else), Allah is strict in punishment.

2:213 Mankind was one single nation, and Allah sent Messengers with glad tidings and warnings; and with them He sent the Book in truth, to judge between people in matters wherein they differed; but the People of the Book, after the clear signs came to them, did not differ among themselves, except through selfish contumacy. Allah by His Grace Guided the believers to the Truth, concerning that wherein they differed. For Allah guided whom He will to a path that is straight.

2:242 Thus doth Allah Make clear His signs to you: In order that ye may understand.

2:253 Those apostles We endowed with gifts, some above others: To one of them Allah spoke; others He raised to degrees (of honour); to Jesus the son of Mary We gave clear (signs), and strengthened him with the holy spirit. If Allah had so willed, succeeding generations would not have fought among each other, after clear (signs) had come to them, but they (chose) to wrangle, some believing and others rejecting. If Allah had so willed, they would not have fought each other; but Allah Fulfilleth His plan.

This does not just refer to Jesus, but all apostles and Prophets.Yes, Jesus was given abilities that some Prophets were not, but all Prophets were unique in their own way. Prophet Mohammed was sent as the last Prophet, the Prophet for all of mankind, and the seal of the religion of God.

 

It is only with the heart that one can see clearly, what is essential is invisible to the eye. (The Little Prince)
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Quote BMZ Replybullet Posted: 13 May 2006 at 8:57pm

Mishmish,

Salaam Alaikum,

Part of Verse 2:253: "To one of them Allah spoke; others He raised to degrees (of honour); to Jesus the son of Mary We gave clear (signs), and strengthened him with the holy spirit."

Before anyone can come up and say, "Look, the above verse in Qur'aan confirms that The Holy Spirit went to strengthen Jesus or made him strong.", , I must write to clarify what "strengthened him with the holy spirit" means.

It simply means that Jesus had a very strong character, he was a noble and pure soul and he was born with that. Nothing could tempt him, nothing could shake him, nothing could excite him and he could not go wrong.

All of us know from the NT that all the attacks by Satan, from left and right, failed. Satan could not sway the man, who had been blessed with a strong spirit or soul when he was born or at the time when God grants a soul to the foetus.

Thus, the holy spirit in the above verse is just Jesus' own soul or spirit, meaning he was blessed with a good and noble soul that remains faithful to God Almighty. It is not that spirit which some Christian friends are trying to find in Islam and Qur'aan.  

Just a "pre-emptive" thought!  Hope you enjoyed this.

BR

BMZ



Edited by bmzsp
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Quote DavidC Replybullet Posted: 13 May 2006 at 10:17pm
BMZSP,

The Qu'ran says Jesus raised the dead and created life from clay.  And you say this is just a magnification of his own spirit?  Then Jesus would have to be Allah.  Are you getting baptized tomorrow or are you just up at the computer a bit too late

I think the Qu'ran is clear that Allah granted these special powers to Jesus.  And if you think we Christians are confused about the divinity of Jesus, please remember Allah seems to have set it up that way for some purpose.




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Quote AbRah2006 Replybullet Posted: 13 May 2006 at 11:05pm

My response to DavidC "The Qu'ran says Jesus raised the dead and created life from clay.  And you say this is just a magnification of his own spirit?  Then Jesus would have to be Allah."

Jesus is a powerless man for he depends on God's help and permissions so Jesus is not God for there are no powerless gods . During his prophetic mission, Jesus performed many miracles.  God tells us that Jesus said:"“I have come to you with a sign from your Lord.  I make for you the shape of a bird out of clay, I breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by God’s permission.  I heal the blind from birth and the leper.  .And I bring the dead to life by God’s permission.  And I tell you what you eat and what you store in your houses....” (Quran, 3:49). Jesus is a powerless man so Jesus is not God: Jesus is quoted in John 5:30, as saying: “I can of mine own self do nothing."

The prophets of God had done some miracles but they were not God so Jesus was not God too for they were the servants of God and they did the miracles with the permission and help of Allah(God)!  Let us compare Jesus with Elijah: According to Quran and Bible Jesus raised the dead and Elijah did the same (I Kings 17:22).  So did Elisha (II Kings 4:34). Both Elijah and Elisha were not God so Jesus was not God too. Please remember that Allah is One and Only and we are His servants who are dependent on His permission and help. Without His help and permission we cannot do anything.

 

 



Edited by AbRah2006
God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)
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Quote BMZ Replybullet Posted: 13 May 2006 at 11:20pm

Hi David,

That was a good one.  In fact, George at one time was so confused on another site that he had almost a suit ready for getting me baptised.

Yes, God Almighty gave him the permission and the blessings and made him perform a few miracles once in a while but that was NOT an everyday affair. Jesus could not do those miracles on his own otherwise he would have done it daily resulting in a huge number of followers including that bad Chief Priest.

I wish he had done that!  

Had it been a daily affair, we would not be talking today and the rebellious Israelis, I mean the Jews would have submitted to God under the guidance of prophet Jesus.

It is a pleasant day here, the skies are dark grey and I was quite chirpy when I wrote that at mid-morning.

Best Regards

BMZ



Edited by bmzsp
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Quote DavidC Replybullet Posted: 14 May 2006 at 1:23am
Hello AbRah,

I am indeed a Christian, but I was only teasing our friend BMZ who seems to be quite a devout Muslim.

I am here to learn about Islam not to convince you of anything.  I am completely baffled by the current trend of debating Christian theology here - it seems remarkably pointless.

My interest is in the fact that the Qur'an indicates that Allah intended for there to be confusion as to the source of Jesus' power.  Can you help research authentic tasfeer on this point?
David C.
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