Active TopicsActive Topics  Display List of Forum MembersMemberlist  CalendarCalendar  Search The ForumSearch  HelpHelp
  RegisterRegister  LoginLogin  Old ForumOld Forum  Twitter  Facebook
Advertisement:
         

Comments & Complaints
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : General : Comments & Complaints
Message Icon Topic: To those who follow the Sunnah Only Post Reply Post New Topic
<< Prev Page  of 3 Next >>
Author Message
fatima
 
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 04 August 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 979
Quote fatima Replybullet Posted: 12 May 2006 at 10:04am

Bismillah irrahman irrahim

Assalamu alaikum

sis alwardah Allah swt tells us in Holy Quran that He is with those who do sabr, bout a while back i decided what u have said and then came across ayah in Surah Al-Imran which mentions how people of previous ummahs were destroyed due to their abandoning of enjoining the good and forbiding the evil while they knew of it.  sis we are called the best of nations due to this exact reason. there is also a hadith which mentions that a person is going to be asked bout his knowledge, if he knew of some thing but did not advise on being asked.

u need to realize that when u r trying to answer some1 with best of ur ability and knowledge, only for the pleasure of ur Lord and to uphold His deen and at the same time being polite and observing manners. then u r earning the reward of Allah swt, if the person finds it in himself/herself to follow the truth then alhamdulillah double the reward for u, if not khair u done ur bit. if u hear bad words for stating the laws of Allah swt then do sabr and again alhamdulillah more thwab so see Allah swt has put so much in for the da'i. i dont know why u want to deprive urself of such reward, i know it is also stated that if what u going to say is going2 cause a fitnah then silence is better.  but u need to analyze the consequences, this forum being sort of dawah way could be giving wrong image of of deen. there is another narration which states that u should choose lesser of two evils and sis due to many factors there is already enuf wrong stuff out there bout our beautifull deen, dont need no more. so i think this day n age some of us some time has to stand up for our deen.

now u mentioned bout not referencing the Ayaat and Ahadith to lesson the confussion but im telling u people would ask proof, and im against this moreso due to one of Hadith Qudsi which states that Allah swt remembers His slave when slave remembers Him. so im sorry but cant let the opportunity go by

lastly sis herjihad, i can tell u one thing making my Lord witness of my innermost intention that arrogance, pride and all this, if seven heaven away would still not be at a comfortable distance for me due to many Ahadith mentioning that existance of even a spec of pride is enuf for to be thrown in hellfire, audhubillah. n im sure i could say same thing bout sis alwardah, ummziba or anybody else who sincerely seeks the path.  my sister tells me that when u have kids u start prefering them and their happiness to ur own. sis if a person tries to adhere to every ruling of our dear Lord and avoids every thing with a slight doubt then u get this love inside u for ur Lord, u put ur Lord first in every dealing of urs, a blessing from Him ofcourse that if some1 is doing something which is in slight contradiction to ur Lord's way disturbs u. u want every1 to come to complete submission, people who state the ruling simply say it for this reason nothing else

i think we should try to tolerate different viewpoints, having patience but at the same time state what is right by our Lord in goodly manner.

wassalam



Edited by fatima
Say: (O Muhammad) If you love Allah, then follow me, Allah will love you and forgive you your faults, and Allah is Forgiving, MercifuL
IP IP Logged
Alwardah
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 25 March 2005
Location: South Africa
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 980
Quote Alwardah Replybullet Posted: 12 May 2006 at 12:38pm

As Salamu Alaikum

 

Sister Herjihad,

 

Insha Allah to each its own.

 

May Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala bless you and your family with Khairan in both this world and the next Ameen!

 

Brother Peacemaker I am not sure how you are going to achieve a unified stance.

May Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala make your task easy for you Ameen!

 

Sister Fatima, I totally agree with what you are saying, but Alhamdulillah there are other ways of getting Ajar (reward) from Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala. 

Insha Allah I will still be posting articles under Islam Basic and Qur'an and Sunnah and Pillars.

 

May Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala grant you abundance Sabr. Ameen!

 

Wa Alaikum Salam
“Verily your Lord is quick in punishment; yet He is indeed Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful (Surah Al-An’am 6:165)
"Indeed, we belong to Allah and to Him is our return" (Surah Baqarah 2: 155)
IP IP Logged
Mishmish
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member


Joined: 01 November 2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1694
Quote Mishmish Replybullet Posted: 12 May 2006 at 6:53pm

Assalamu Alaikum Brother Peacemaker and Sisters:

This is a sad subject. As someone who came to Islam as an adult with a very inquisitive mind and a need to be shown what I am being told, I feel that it is a necessity that daleel be given on all matters. Even with daleel there will still be some disagreements, but not all daleel is a clear cut matter.

If we are not supposed to discuss these things, how will we be able to learn? I think that anyone should be allowed to question something they don't understand, or which doesn't make sense, but they should do so in a respectful manner.

When I was first learning about Islam, if I had been made to feel bad for asking the hard questions, I probably would have given up. You must be able to answer questions and present proof without taking it personally. Just as someone who is asking a question or seeking an answer should not be made to feel as if they are doing something wrong for asking. No matter what the question. If the matter wasn't bothering them, they probably wouldn't ask.

I personally ask questions and if something just doesn't make sense I want to know why. That does not mean that I reject something, that means I need to understand it fully before I can accept it. It has to have some basis in logic, and some Islamic proof. I am not trying to be difficult, this is the way my mind functions. That is why I always ask for the daleel. This is something that Aisha, the wife of the Prophet(PBUH) did also. She would ask until it made sense to her. There is nothing wrong in this, and if you don't ask until you get a satisfactory answer, then you will always have a doubt.

I also believe if someone is rejecting an opinion, then they should have proof for this rejection. They should bring forth the Ayat, Hadith, or opinion, that gives them reason to doubt. I think this is only fair. If you cannot give a valid, Islamic reason for why you reject or accept something, then that is your opinion and should not be argued as based in Islam.

The question of music is a very old one and many scholars have different opinions. There are Hadith in which the Prophet allowed music, singing, and dancing. If these were completely forbidden, the Prophet would not have allowed such things, nor taken part in them. There are also Hadith which name certain instruments as haraam, and music as whole. Since, some was allowed and some forbidden, it would be entirely safe to say that music is Makhruh, and you must make up your own mind.  It is entirely up to the individual, as all things always are in the end.

Once you have given your daleel on any subject, you have done the best that you can do. There is no point in arguing further, as you have done your duty as a Muslim, and there is no compulsion in religion. We cannot force another Muslim to conform to something, either for or against, if they do not choose to do so.

What we have to remember is that Allah(SWT) gave us all free will and the ability to process knowledge and seek logic. Your way of processing or understanding something may be totally different from mine, and mine will different from the Sister or Brother next door. If Allah(SWT) had wanted us all to think and be the same, He would have created us that way. So we should accept our differences, point out the right and prohibit the wrong, but in a peaceful, respectful manner that does not make anyone feel personally attacked or denigrated in anyway.

 

 

It is only with the heart that one can see clearly, what is essential is invisible to the eye. (The Little Prince)
IP IP Logged
mariyah
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 29 March 2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1283
Quote mariyah Replybullet Posted: 12 May 2006 at 11:47pm
Originally posted by ZEA J

Originally posted by Alwardah

Is this an Islamic Forum? Sometimes I really wonder.

 

me too

Salaam...

I have often wondered that as well, at least they are better behaved here that they are on some of the other online forums.

"Every good deed is charity whether you come to your brother's assistance or just greet him with a smile.
IP IP Logged
peacemaker
Male Islam
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 29 December 2005
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3058
Quote peacemaker Replybullet Posted: 13 May 2006 at 11:06pm

Assalamu Alaikum!

Masha Allah I am also very inquisitive, Sister Mishmish. I had the first debate with my father when I was 8 years old ( Grade 3 ). I asked him that what he had taught me in Qur’an about Sun’s position in the solar system was different from what I was taught in the class room ( well, modern scientific theory conforms to Qur’anic position as far as Sun’s movement is concerned, but it didn't at that time). I remember that it was late night and he was sleeping, I woke him up to discuss the matter ( he had given me the permission to wake him up to ask questions/ discuss any topic, and I used to avail it at will, when I look back, I think, I was really giving him hard time with my little mind).

The point is you and I are same or similar in this respect.

So, a proper discussion with evidences from Qur’an, Sunnah and opinion of Scholars can properly direct us towards the conclusion on any topic.

Now how should an "average knowledge seeker" ( member or guest ), let us exclude you and me, whether Muslim or non-Muslim get the Message of Islam on a topic if half of us are on one side and the other half on other side, and "endless" argument goes on and on with no conclusion in sight? What would be the way of Prophet ( SAW ) and his companions to convey the Message of Islam to the Mankind? Had they not been unified in their position, how would they have conveyed the Message to the Mankind including super powers of the time? By being "unified" doesn’t mean that we may not have our personal differences, or we may not discuss or ask questions, it simply means here that being as one "team" to convey the Message of Allah without any doubt to an average knowledge seeker of Islam.

Jazak Allah Khair for a very good post, Sister Mishmish. .

Peace



Edited by peacemaker
Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?
Qur'an 55:13
IP IP Logged
Alwardah
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 25 March 2005
Location: South Africa
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 980
Quote Alwardah Replybullet Posted: 14 May 2006 at 4:56am

As Salamu Alaikum Sister Mishmish and Brother Peacemaker

 

Jazakallahu Khairan for your wise words.

 

I think it will be great if we can all agree to disagree by posting daleel in support of our claim and nobody takes things personally.

 

I sincerely pray from the bottom of my heart that we can achieve this.

 

Wa Alaikum Salam

 

“Verily your Lord is quick in punishment; yet He is indeed Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful (Surah Al-An’am 6:165)
"Indeed, we belong to Allah and to Him is our return" (Surah Baqarah 2: 155)
IP IP Logged
peacemaker
Male Islam
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 29 December 2005
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3058
Quote peacemaker Replybullet Posted: 14 May 2006 at 7:31am

Assalamu Alaikum!

Alwardah,

Yes, insha Allah, we will achieve this. Jazak Allah Khair, Sister, and hope that you would continue to take part in all such discussions.

Peace

Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?
Qur'an 55:13
IP IP Logged
herjihad
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 26 January 2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2473
Quote herjihad Replybullet Posted: 14 May 2006 at 7:42am
Originally posted by Mishmish

Assalamu Alaikum Brother Peacemaker and Sisters:

This is a sad subject. As someone who came to Islam as an adult with a very inquisitive mind and a need to be shown what I am being told, I feel that it is a necessity that daleel be given on all matters. Even with daleel there will still be some disagreements, but not all daleel is a clear cut matter.

Sister, could you explain what daleel means?  I thought it simply meant guidance, but maybe I am missing something.

If we are not supposed to discuss these things, how will we be able to learn? I think that anyone should be allowed to question something they don't understand, or which doesn't make sense, but they should do so in a respectful manner.

ISA we can discuss and learn continually.  Ameen.  Next week or next year we may learn something new which changes our perspective on things.  ISA we will be flexible and intuitive and kind with each other.

When I was first learning about Islam, if I had been made to feel bad for asking the hard questions, I probably would have given up. You must be able to answer questions and present proof without taking it personally. Just as someone who is asking a question or seeking an answer should not be made to feel as if they are doing something wrong for asking. No matter what the question. If the matter wasn't bothering them, they probably wouldn't ask.

Ameen.

I personally ask questions and if something just doesn't make sense I want to know why. That does not mean that I reject something, that means I need to understand it fully before I can accept it. It has to have some basis in logic, and some Islamic proof. I am not trying to be difficult, this is the way my mind functions. That is why I always ask for the daleel. This is something that Aisha, the wife of the Prophet(PBUH) did also. She would ask until it made sense to her. There is nothing wrong in this, and if you don't ask until you get a satisfactory answer, then you will always have a doubt.

I also believe if someone is rejecting an opinion, then they should have proof for this rejection. They should bring forth the Ayat, Hadith, or opinion, that gives them reason to doubt. I think this is only fair. If you cannot give a valid, Islamic reason for why you reject or accept something, then that is your opinion and should not be argued as based in Islam.

You know, Sister, this is very reasonable and yet not at the same time.  Since this applies directly to me, I will mention my feelings on this to you.  You see, I am not the person quoting from the Quran in places where it says:  The misguided will go to hell, in support of totally unrelated hadith.  I am the one who believes in the Quran in a literal and interpretive manner, as many other humans do on this earth, but they just don't happen to be on this IC forum.  So I feel I represent them and their voice.  There are many, many Muslims who simply walk away from discussion (and Mosques) because they cannot continue to feel berated and ostracized.

Simply, I studied the Bible (and the Book of Mormon set) for many years, and then I studied about other religions and most deeply about Islam with the Holy Quran and a copy of the collection of Sahih Muslim.  However,  my books were stolen, so I have only recently gotten a copy of the Quran which I like to read.  So I got out of the habit of studying those things, but the knowledge is in my brain and heart.  And sorry, but I am not going to take the time to quote each little thing that I remember, but if anyone wishes to say my memory is wrong, they are welcome to quote against that.

I am saying that my opinion is Islaamic because I am a Muslim who has studied and knows a lot of stuff about our deen.  Sorry if you think I should quote, but I doubt that I will.  And I feel that Allah, SWT, inspires us all, and it is hard to break down that inspiration to others sometimes.  However, this inspriation is a valid Islaamic source.  Peace.

The question of music is a very old one and many scholars have different opinions. There are Hadith in which the Prophet allowed music, singing, and dancing. If these were completely forbidden, the Prophet would not have allowed such things, nor taken part in them. There are also Hadith which name certain instruments as haraam, and music as whole. Since, some was allowed and some forbidden, it would be entirely safe to say that music is Makhruh, and you must make up your own mind.  It is entirely up to the individual, as all things always are in the end.

How many Muslims play the wind instruments?  We just don't accept that hadith.  This is about Jinn and the presence of Jinn and the evil they can do.  We are also disallowed whistling according to that hadith or family of hadiths.  Others may quote that and say anyone who violates it is in trouble, but others of us just refuse to acknowledge that because it is SILLY.  There are mountains of evidence to refute the witchcraft like fear and practices people have against the Jinn.  Me and others like me just refuse to believe that wind is evil and that Jinn live in the bathroom pipes.  Go figure!

Once you have given your daleel on any subject, you have done the best that you can do. There is no point in arguing further, as you have done your duty as a Muslim, and there is no compulsion in religion. We cannot force another Muslim to conform to something, either for or against, if they do not choose to do so.

My whole point is trying to get hardliners to communicate with people like me in non-offensive, non-attacking ways.  It's not really working though because people keep wanting to think that I'm taking their behavior personally when I'm really just on a small jihad to help us respect each other and learn how to talk respectfully.  This is the basis of community building.

What we have to remember is that Allah(SWT) gave us all free will and the ability to process knowledge and seek logic. Your way of processing or understanding something may be totally different from mine, and mine will different from the Sister or Brother next door. If Allah(SWT) had wanted us all to think and be the same, He would have created us that way. So we should accept our differences, point out the right and prohibit the wrong, but in a peaceful, respectful manner that does not make anyone feel personally attacked or denigrated in anyway.

Yes, this is the crux of the whole issue.  How can we do this?  Maybe if we figure it out, the rest of the world will be guided by our model of civil cooperation and respectful discourse.  (What a burden!! Hee hee.)

Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.
IP IP Logged
<< Prev Page  of 3 Next >>
Post Reply Post New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Disclaimer:
The opinions expressed herein contain positions and viewpoints that are not necessarily those of IslamiCity. This forum is offered to stimulate dialogue and discussion in our continuing mission of being an educational organization.
If there is any issue with any of the postings please email to icforum at islamicity.com or if you are a forum's member you can use the report button.

Note: The 99 names of Allah avatars are courtesy of www.arthafez.com

Advertisement:



Sponsored by:
Islamicity Membership Program:
IslamiCity Donation Program  http://www.islamicity.com/Donate
IslamiCity Arabic eLearning http://www.islamiCity.com/ArabAcademy
Complete Domain & Hosting Solutions www.icDomain.com
Home for Muslim Tunes www.icTunes.com
Islamic Video Collections www.islamiTV.com
IslamiCity Marriage Site www.icMarriage.com