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Interfaith Dialogue
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Message Icon Topic: no compulsion - the latest...... Post Reply Post New Topic
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fredifreeloader
 
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Quote fredifreeloader Replybullet Posted: 05 May 2006 at 1:00pm

Originally posted by Sign*Reader

The best scenario for anyone to understand about the Friday prayer is like a company's staff meeting, which is normally mandatory . I know for a fact that missing several staff meetings isn't beneficial for career enhancement. All major events and announcements aimed toward progress in the company are discussed and brought forth during staff meetings, essentially providing a connection and balance between employees and their bosses. Friday prayers provide a similar but much deeper spiritual connection between the layman and their spiritual leaders. I'll simply have a bottom line, maintaining discipline.

yes its a good analogy, but not everyone is particularly bothered by "career enhancement"  why not just let allah decide about them?  it is however refreshing to hear someone who is not just concerned to make islam acceptable to non-muslims

It makes perfect sense for Malaysian Muslims, who have gained freedom from the stranglehold of colonialism and have had the guts to do it, to have a mandatory Friday meetings, in this case prayer.

i do not understand the connection here.  it makes sense for them to have mandatory meetings because they gained freedom from colonialism?  i will pass over your insinuations about the colonial past of the uk, as no muslim has a right to pass comment on this subject.

Regarding Muhammad's letter to some Omani tribal leader---I think it was admirable that he sent a note to him,

ah - so the letter is authentic, then

as he didn't need to do it at all.

indeed he did not.  everything he did after all was with the full authority of his god.  he was the "apostle".  jolly decent of him

It was written on the behalf of the only accomplished of God's prophet's, declaring his message must reach the people of Oman. Fourteen centuries later it might be beyond the comprehension of a small scotish mind.

au contraire, this is all well within the grasp of my small mind - (but adding "scottish" only serves to betray your racism) 

It was his prerogative to treat this Omani fella the best way he saw fit. I say he was too lenient against his enemies.

tut tut - criticism of muhammad - cant have that.....

The fact remains that removal of pagan control was absolutely necessary for the enslaved people to see right from wrong.

removal of pagan control? maybe, but it was more that that according  to bukhari vol4book53no.393 - all pagans to be turned out of arabian peninsula.  this in fact goes beyond imperialism/colonialism.  it is not ethnic cleansing, but that is what it comes closest to.  if it had been the nazis, they would no doubt have been blethering on about Lebensraum.  and it was to see right from wrong as muhammad did

History (Discoverer; Boorstin-pp 127) tells me simply that Christians would rather prefer the company of Pagans ( against Muslims, unless of course a relationship with Muslims appears more financially profitable ( oil sheikdoms & Kingdoms) at times.

history can tell you what it likes (or what you like), but i know what the quran tells me about muslims and friendships


for i am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth - romans 1: 16
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BMZ
 
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Quote BMZ Replybullet Posted: 05 May 2006 at 7:11pm

Fredi,

From you: "yes bmz, that is the translation.  the text starts "peace be upon..." and ends "......shall prevail in your kingdom."

That English translation is not the translation of the Arabic text hanging in the fortress of Oman, Fredi. You are ed and are mixing. 

The text in Arabic (link provided by you earlier), has nothing in there to match with the text of translation in English (link also provided by you).

I do not see Muhammad telling or talking about any prophecy and horses and men camping in there, in the Arabic text.   

Perhaps, you could write to your friends in Oman and ask them to submit a new translation.




Edited by bmzsp
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Quote fredifreeloader Replybullet Posted: 06 May 2006 at 5:12am
bmz - you have yet to provide a translation.  you have yet to address the issue of all pagans being expelled from the arabian peninsula
for i am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth - romans 1: 16
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BMZ
 
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Quote BMZ Replybullet Posted: 06 May 2006 at 6:30am

Not me, fredi. I think that was somebodyelse who promised you a translation.

Regarding the issue of all pagans being expelled, it was also not me who was supposed to discuss the issue.

However, on my part, I can assure you that there was no mass exodus of the pagans from the Arabian peninsula. They became Muslims and lived happily ever after that.

Please read about Prophet's peaceful entry into Mecca, without a war or a battle ever fought. 



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fredifreeloader
 
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Quote fredifreeloader Replybullet Posted: 06 May 2006 at 10:20am
Originally posted by bmzsp

Not me, fredi. I think that was somebodyelse who promised you a translation.

Regarding the issue of all pagans being expelled, it was also not me who was supposed to discuss the issue.

However, on my part, I can assure you that there was no mass exodus of the pagans from the Arabian peninsula. They became Muslims and lived happily ever after that.

Please read about Prophet's peaceful entry into Mecca, without a war or a battle ever fought. 

with the greatest of respect, bmz, we are not talking about "prophets" entry into mecca, but    into    oman.  with regard to the issue of translation, and the expulsion of pagans, well these issues are open to discussion to whomsoever is able for it.  but it must be getting near your bedtime.  no point in burning the midnight oil if you have other fish to fry.... 

for i am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth - romans 1: 16
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Quote Patty Replybullet Posted: 06 May 2006 at 8:04pm

I'm very late entering this topic, but I just read the following which was posted by Bismark:

"Hitler, who successfully destroyed Deutschland, heartland of the Protestant Reformation, was also a Roman Catholic and backed by the RCC. "

This is not correct.  It has been taught as truth for a long time, but in actuality it is not so.  Here is an excerpt and a link concerning the stance of the Catholic Church during Hitler's reign of terror (for those interested in reading it):

"

The Israeli consul, Pinchas E. Lapide, in his book, Three Popes and the Jews (New York: Hawthorn Books, Inc., 1967) critically examines Pope Pius XII. According to his research, the Catholic Church under Pius XII was instrumental in saving 860,000 Jews from Nazi death camps (p. 214). Could Pius have saved more lives by speaking out more forcefully? According to Lapide, the concentration camp prisoners did not want Pius to speak out openly (p. 247). As one jurist from the Nuremberg Trials said on WNBC in New York (Feb. 28, 1964), "Any words of Pius XII, directed against a madman like Hitler, would have brought on an even worse catastrophe... [and] accelerated the massacre of Jews and priests." (Ibid.) Yet Pius was not totally silent either. Lapide notes a book by the Jewish historian, Jenoe Levai, entitled, The Church Did Not Keep Silent (p. 256). He admits that everyone, including himself, could have done more. If we condemn Pius, then justice would demand condemning everyone else. He concludes by quoting from the Talmud that "whosoever preserves one life, it is accounted to him by Scripture as if he had preserved a whole world." With this he claims that Pius XII deserves a memorial forest of 860,000 trees in the Judean hills (pp. 268-9). It should be noted that six million Jews and three million Catholics were killed in the Holocaust."

http://users.binary.net/polycarp/piusxii.html

Also, it is true that Hitler was a baptised Catholic and served as an altar boy, but he committed automatic excommunication because of his horrific acts during WWII.  He became an atheist.

May God Enlighten and Bless Us All!

Patty

 

Patty

I don't know what the future holds....but I know who holds the future.
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Quote herjihad Replybullet Posted: 08 May 2006 at 1:10pm

Bismillah,

Thanks for the information, Patty.

Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.
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ummziba
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Quote ummziba Replybullet Posted: 08 May 2006 at 2:58pm

Not for you, Fredi, you're hopelessly enraptured by your own (so-called) cleverness in fooling with the poor little Muslims - no offense, it's the way you come across...

But for everyone else, here's a really good article on the subject of compulsion:

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/347E49BD-B8A3-47A1-AF 19-5EBC405A8B9F.htm

Peace, ummziba.

Sticks and stones may break my bones, but your words...they break my soul ~
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