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Interfaith Dialogue
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Message Icon Topic: no compulsion - the latest...... Post Reply Post New Topic
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zulqarnain
 
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Quote zulqarnain Replybullet Posted: 01 May 2006 at 6:42am
I'll get this translated form my Arab friend then I'll talk t u about this
And We have not sent you(O Muhammad!) but as a mercy to the worlds. (Al-Quran 21: 107)
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BMZ
 
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Quote BMZ Replybullet Posted: 02 May 2006 at 8:15am

fredi,

You can safely rule out the letter to the Omanis and the photocopy of the letter as the message in Arabic does not convey the same message which was sent by the prophet to a selected few.

Looks like the purported Letter to Omanis was made by Ali Sina or Ibn Warraq. 

Here is an extract from the link that I have provided at the bottom of this page. You have to see and feel how he called the people and what he said in his address and then read the message. The message was same to all.

Best Regards

BMZ

"The following year after the treaty of Hudaibiya, the Prophet decided to write to neighboring kings, including those of the two superpowers, summoning them to Islam. In order to make the selection of ambassadors to the rulers, he asked his Companions to assemble in the Mosque. After performing the obligatory prayer, he addressed them:

“O people! Allah has sent me as the one who is compassionate to the mankind and the prophet to the world. Therefore preach (the message of Islam) on my behalf, Allah will have Mercy upon you...”

The Prophet then selected some of his very competent companions as ambassadors to kings and heads of states. Some of them are listed below:


Dihyah ibn Khalifah al-Kalbi (ra) Heraclius, Emperor of Byzantines (Eastern Roman Empire)
'Abdullah bin Hudhafah (ra) Chosroes II (Emperor of Persian Empire)
'Amr bin Umayyah (ra) Negus, King of Abyssinia
Hatib' bin Abi Baitah (ra) Muqawqis, Ruler of Egypt
Shuja bin Wahab al-Asadi (ra) Harith Gassani, Governor of Syria
'Ala bin Hadrami (ra) al-Mundhir bin Sawa, Ruler of Bahrain


The wording of the Prophet’s letters was similar. The text of the letter sent to Heraclius was as follows:

“In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful. This letter is from Muhammad the slave of Allah and his Apostle to Heraclius, the ruler of the Byzantines. Peace be upon him who follows the right path. Furthermore, I invite you to Islam and if you become a Muslim you will be safe, and Allah will double your reward, and if you reject this invitation of Islam you will be committing a sin by misguiding your subjects. And I recite to you Allah's statement:

“O People of the Scriptures! Come to a word common to you and us that we worship none but Allah and that we associate nothing in worship with Him, and that none of us shall take others as Lords beside Allah. Then if they turn away, say: Bear witness that we are Muslims (those who have surrendered to Allah). (Qur’an: Surah 3, Ayah 64).”

All the Prophet's letters were stamped with the words: “Muhammad Rasul-ullah" (Muhammad the Messenger of Allah). Three of the Prophet’s letters have been preserved."

The link: http://www.cyberistan.org/islamic/letters.html



Edited by bmzsp
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fredifreeloader
 
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Quote fredifreeloader Replybullet Posted: 02 May 2006 at 9:43am
Originally posted by bmzsp

fredi,

You can safely rule out the letter to the Omanis

yes but can you?

and the photocopy of the letter as the message in Arabic does not convey the same message which was sent by the prophet to a selected few.

photocopy? what photocopy?  doesnt convey the same message?  so what?  were talking about one letter here 

Looks like the purported Letter to Omanis was made by Ali Sina or Ibn Warraq. 

which i suppose is why its proudly on display in sohar fort, sohar, sultanate of oman

Here is an extract from the link that I have provided at the bottom of this page. You have to see and feel how he called the people and what he said in his address and then read the message. The message was same to all.

Best Regards

BMZ

i will make two remarks here. 1.  you can supply a translation of the letter to heraclius, but cant or wont for the letter to the omanis. 2.  the letters you mentioned to kings etc. were all addressed to people outside the arabian peninsula (including the one to bahrain, which is, as you know, an island in the persian gulf, not on the peninsula).  now bear in mind muhammads intentions for the arabian peninsula.  it was to be entirely muslim.  this would call, i would think, for a different kind of letter

so far im very far from satisfied with anything muslims have said to me about this letter.  the matter remains very unresolved

for i am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth - romans 1: 16
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zulqarnain
 
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Quote zulqarnain Replybullet Posted: 02 May 2006 at 11:29pm
Let me tell you frediboy. You don't know about our Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) much do you? In order to fully understand Muhammad(PBUH), you need to look at Islam... not at the opinions of others on the internet or some other source..
fredi said: now bear in mind muhammads intentions for the arabian peninsula. it was to be entirely muslim. this would call, i would think, for a different kind of letter
In the Quran, it is mentioned that Muhammad (PBUH) was sent toward the whole of humanity, his message was for the whole of humanity not the "Arabian Peninsula" . Second, in the Quraan, it is mentioned that he was the giver of good news and the warner of bad consequences. If Allah ordered him to give good news and warn of bad consequences, as a Prophet, that is his purpose, his mission. If he ONLY gave good news to satisfy the people, he would be disobeying Allah, and ceases to be a Prophet. So if YOU think Muhammad (PBUH) was threatning the Omanis of his own accord, then you're sadly mistaken.
And anyway, Islam was not spread by sword, NOW I know you'll give some examples to win the battle..
And We have not sent you(O Muhammad!) but as a mercy to the worlds. (Al-Quran 21: 107)
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Quote BMZ Replybullet Posted: 02 May 2006 at 11:51pm

fredi,

1. My point is simple: Prophet sent the same letter to all.

2. I am not good at googling and that was what I could find.

3. There were some battles which had to be fought for law and order during various rebel leaders who turned apostates, like the leaders of Bahrain and Oman.

4. The letter that you talk about could be about warnings to them.

But you can't say that it was Compulsion right from the beginning as Muhammad was educated and taught by God Almighty through Qur'aan.

Now, are you aware of the Chapter on Joshua with all the holy gory details in the Holy Bible? Please read and tell me what went wrong with Yahweh and Joshua when both went on the Six-Star Killing Spree, together and what was the moral of that chapter or is?      

BMZ



Edited by bmzsp
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Quote fredifreeloader Replybullet Posted: 03 May 2006 at 10:39am

Originally posted by zulqarnain

Let me tell you frediboy. You don't know about our Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) much do you? In order to fully understand Muhammad(PBUH), you need to look at Islam... not at the opinions of others on the internet or some other source..
fredi said: now bear in mind muhammads intentions for the arabian peninsula. it was to be entirely muslim. this would call, i would think, for a different kind of letter
In the Quran, it is mentioned that Muhammad (PBUH) was sent toward the whole of humanity, his message was for the whole of humanity not the "Arabian Peninsula" . Second, in the Quraan, it is mentioned that he was the giver of good news and the warner of bad consequences. If Allah ordered him to give good news and warn of bad consequences, as a Prophet, that is his purpose, his mission. If he ONLY gave good news to satisfy the people, he would be disobeying Allah, and ceases to be a Prophet. So if YOU think Muhammad (PBUH) was threatning the Omanis of his own accord, then you're sadly mistaken.
And anyway, Islam was not spread by sword, NOW I know you'll give some examples to win the battle..

that was a strange one, zul.  i never said that muhammads message is not claimed to be for the whole world, nor did i say it was intended to be confined to the arabian peninsula.  nor did i actually say that muhammad was threatening the omanis of his own accord.  as for looking at islam, it may interest you to know i spent 4 years in your country (long before there was any internet) and had a right good look at it.  islam, that is.



Edited by fredifreeloader
for i am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth - romans 1: 16
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Quote fredifreeloader Replybullet Posted: 03 May 2006 at 11:07am
[QUOTE=bmzsp]

fredi,

1. My point is simple: Prophet sent the same letter to all.

no, bmz, your point is simplistic.  are you saying he only wrote one letter (and he could write btw, i will look up something to prove this, and if i cant find it, i will retract it)?

2. I am not good at googling and that was what I could find.

 - yeah, right - sorry but wasnt born yesterday, bmz

3. There were some battles which had to be fought for law and order during various rebel leaders who turned apostates, like the leaders of Bahrain and Oman.

4. The letter that you talk about could be about warnings to them.

yes i know - it was a warning to convert to islam, or else

But you can't say that it was Compulsion right from the beginning as Muhammad was educated and taught by God Almighty through Qur'aan.

so it might have become compulsion in the end

Now, are you aware of the Chapter on Joshua with all the holy gory details in the Holy Bible? Please read and tell me what went wrong with Yahweh and Joshua when both went on the Six-Star Killing Spree, together and what was the moral of that chapter or is?      

BMZ

so? do you think we dont know about the character of yahweh? he is terrible in his doings.  he has not changed.  our God is a consuming fire - hebrews 12: 29.  but praise his holy name forever, his dealings  with men are now in grace through the Person of his Son, our blessed Lord, God and Saviour, Jesus Christ.  also we do not need to justify him, or any of his deeds, but thank him for justifying us - "therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ" - romans 5: 1

am i to take it that you and zul are now accepting the translation of the letter given by the omanis, who after all, know arabic rather well, as it is their native language? 

yes, ive just looked it up, muhammad could write.  see sahih bukhari vol7book62no.88 - he wrote the marriage contract with aisha.  also - vol1book3no.114 - "i shall write for you a statement".  also vol5book59no.717 - "come near, i will write for you something after which you will not go astray" ------also vol4book53no.393 - he wants a bone of scapula to write on, but of greater interest, zul, he says "turn out all the pagans from the arabian peninsula"

Edited by fredifreeloader
for i am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth - romans 1: 16
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zulqarnain
 
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Quote zulqarnain Replybullet Posted: 04 May 2006 at 3:36am
Originally posted by fredifreeloader

Originally posted by zulqarnain

Let me tell you frediboy. You don't know about our Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) much do you? In order to fully understand Muhammad(PBUH), you need to look at Islam... not at the opinions of others on the internet or some other source.. fredi said: now bear in mind muhammads intentions for the arabian peninsula. it was to be entirely muslim. this would call, i would think, for a different kind of letter In the Quran, it is mentioned that Muhammad (PBUH) was sent toward the whole of humanity, his message was for the whole of humanity not the "Arabian Peninsula" . Second, in the Quraan, it is mentioned that he was the giver of good news and the warner of bad consequences. If Allah ordered him to give good news and warn of bad consequences, as a Prophet, that is his purpose, his mission. If he ONLY gave good news to satisfy the people, he would be disobeying Allah, and ceases to be a Prophet. So if YOU think Muhammad (PBUH) was threatning the Omanis of his own accord, then you're sadly mistaken. And anyway, Islam was not spread by sword, NOW I know you'll give some examples to win the battle..


that was a strange one, zul.  i never said that muhammads message is not claimed to be for the whole world, nor did i say it was intended to be confined to the arabian peninsula.  nor did i actually say that muhammad was threatening the omanis of his own accord.  as for looking at islam, it may interest you to know i spent 4 years in your country (long before there was any internet) and had a right good look at it.  islam, that is.



If you judged Islam by the Common Muslims in my country, you have entirely misunderstood it then
And We have not sent you(O Muhammad!) but as a mercy to the worlds. (Al-Quran 21: 107)
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