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zulqarnain
 
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Quote zulqarnain Replybullet Topic: Answers from the Christians
    Posted: 24 April 2006 at 9:05am
Assalamualaikum. I have come to know about this forum. And I would like to hear logical answers from the christians of what I have to say. I refer to the dialogue between Dr Zakir Naik and William Campbell, there are more than 20 scientific errors in the bible, and still you take it as the Authentic book from God.
Secondly how can christians deny, that the newly found Gospel Of Judas's text is fake, but the book is original? The National Geographic itself is saying that the Church did not copy the bible word to word from the beginning, it selected some of it and later put in some of their own ideas? Still you stick to such a contradictory belief, that the Bible is the true book from God? I don't understand why?
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Quote Angela Replybullet Posted: 24 April 2006 at 9:23am

Okay, I have only one arguement on the Gospel of Judas, both Chrisitan and Islamic tradition places the death of Judas on Easter weekend.  Whether on the Cross in the guise of Christ or hanging himself in agony over his betrayal of Christ.

So, in three days, when did he have time to pen a Gospel clearing himself?????

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Quote George Replybullet Posted: 25 April 2006 at 7:43am

Hello zulqarnain,

 

From you: Assalamualaikum. I have come to know about this forum. And I would like to hear logical answers from the christians of what I have to say. I refer to the dialogue between Dr Zakir Naik and William Campbell, there are more than 20 scientific errors in the bible, and still you take it as the Authentic book from God.

 

My comments:

I haven't heard the debate but I know of it.  The conclusion is that Naik "won" the debate, mostly because he is a better debater and not because he refuted Dr. Campbell's points.  There is one thing that you need to keep in mind when reading the Bible.  It includes the thoughts of men along with God's.  For instance, there is a verse in the Book of Job where someone says that the earth is supported by pillars.  This is scientifically inaccurate, but it was the opinion of the man who said it.  How could the earth stay up if not on pillars?

Without knowing what Naik considered a scientific error I have no way of responding.  You might want to consider doing the following:

The reasons I believe in the authenticity of the Bible and what convinced me that it came from God comes from the following, among others:

1.  The Bible

2.  Prophecies

3. Archaeological evidence

4. Studying other religions

One thing that really impressed me was the continuity of the Bible.  It has so many authors, but yet has a unity that is comforting.  Jesus confirmed the Old Testament by quoting from it many times and by pointing to the prophecies about Him.  And, I believe Jesus and His disciples.  Jesus' disciples were persecuted and most died because of their faith in Him—that He was the Messiah, that He was the Son of God, that He was crucified, died and rose again.  I believe them.

I read a lot of books that convinced me that I was on the right track.  But, you can read the type of evidence I found in my books that helped me find my truth on some websites. 

Authority of the Bible can be found at:

http://www.lifeway.com/lwc/article_main_page/0,1703,A%253D15 4247%2526M%253D200168,00.html

The Inspiration of the Bible can be found at:

http://www.lifeway.com/lwc/article_main_page/0,1703,A%253D15 4248%2526M%253D200168,00.html

Historical and Archaeological Evidence for Christianity can be found at:

http://www.rationalchristianity.net/historical_evid.html

and the site above has many good links.

Bible prophecies can be found at the following:

http://www.aboutbibleprophecy.com/prophecy.htm

http://www.quiknet.com/~dfrench/evidence/prophecy.htm

http://www.greatcom.org/resources/areadydefense/ch19/default .htm

http://www.greatcom.org/resources/areadydefense/ch06/default .htm

Science in the Bible:

http://www.quiknet.com/~dfrench/evidence/science.htm

http://www.av1611.org/amazing.html

From you: Secondly how can christians deny, that the newly found Gospel Of Judas's text is fake, but the book is original? The National Geographic itself is saying that the Church did not copy the bible word to word from the beginning, it selected some of it and later put in some of their own ideas? Still you stick to such a contradictory belief, that the Bible is the true book from God? I don't understand why?

 

Comments:

Nobody said it is a fake in the sense that I think you mean.  It is a genuine example of 2nd century Gnosticism.  It was not written by Judas, who was one of Jesus' disciples.

You can read an English translation of the "Gospel" of Judas here: http://www9.nationalgeographic.com/lostgospel/_pdf/GospelofJ udas.pdf

It's not even mentioned in Philip Jenkins' book Hidden Gospels, which is one of the best on the subject on non-canonical Gospels today. I suspect it's just one more very late, poorly attested document.

Originally posted by Christianity Today:

"Until the release of the Gospel of Judas and other Gnostic texts discovered decades ago near Nag Hammadi in Egypt, we learned about Gnosticism mostly through the polemics of Christian apologists. Now thanks to the Gospel of Judas, we can further verify two major Gnostic teachings. According to many Gnostic teachers, Jesus either did not actually appear in the flesh, or he at least wanted to shed his skin as soon as possible. Jesus longed to return to the spirit world. Judas helped make that happen. ("You will sacrifice the man that clothes me," the "spiritual" Jesus tells Judas in th is document.) Also, Gnostics believed only a select few would truly apprehend the knowledge of heaven. The Gospel of Judas teaches that only Judas, Jesus' favorite disciple, fully understood."

The Gospel of Judas was referenced ca. 180 by Irenaeus in Adversus Hairesis (Against Heresy), where the gospel was quoted, not just mentioned, and condemned for being gnostic.  The gnostic deviated from orthodox Christianity in a variety of ways, such as the concept of gnosis = insight, personal revelation, which is clear in the Gospel of Judas.

The gosple is hardly authentic in t he sense that it is written by Judas or based on an actual tradition originating from him. The Gnostics in the 2nd century were particularly fond of writing this kind of pseudepigrapha, so it fits into a certain environment.

It tells us something about the Gnostics and is valuable for that reason, but it tells us nothing about Jesus and his apostles.



Edited by peacemaker
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zulqarnain
 
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Quote zulqarnain Replybullet Posted: 25 April 2006 at 10:20am
I suggest you, brother and sisters, to watch all Dr. Zakir Naiks episodes and debates from the earliest to the latest videos available at www.irf.net, in the video gallery, this will answer all your questions, if still not convinced, why not e-mail him at zakir@irf.net ?
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Quote zulqarnain Replybullet Posted: 25 April 2006 at 10:22am
Why not refer to all his videos at www.irf.net. it will answer all your questions. it also contains the movie of the campbell debate. Even then not satisfied, then e-mail him, zakir@irf.net
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Quote zulqarnain Replybullet Posted: 25 April 2006 at 10:27am
And this is to george:
We muslims believe that Bible was there from the beggining and it was the book from God. But when the Chucrch later changed it that's why we know don't rely on it 100%. Some facts maybe the original text, unchanged but the major part is modified.
But i am stressing you, that almost all of your questions will be answered by seeing his videos. You can even call the phone number for question from the IRF foundation having Dr. Zakir Naik.
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Quote fredifreeloader Replybullet Posted: 25 April 2006 at 10:53am
zakir naik?  is this the guy that thinks islam is scientific?
for i am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth - romans 1: 16
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Quote zulqarnain Replybullet Posted: 25 April 2006 at 10:54am
Denis Giron, the man who mentions various mistakes for the Quraan, does not have the courage of publicly challenging Dr. Zakir Naik. Because he knows he will lose. He gave such absurd opinions of his own that i was about to pass out. Dr. Zakir naiks debate with Dr. Campbell gave answers to some of his questions. But if he (maybe, ATHIEST) is right and confident, he should publicly challenge Dr.Zakir Naik. He can gain his fame

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