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George

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Posted: 26 April 2006 at 7:37am

Originally posted by bmzsp

George,

From you:"Christians submit to one God and one God only."

Name him George, just name that One God and one God only, please.

Just write down only one name, please.

Yahweh

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zulqarnain

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Posted: 26 April 2006 at 7:40am

Tell you what george. First read the chapter "Mary" in the Quraan, THEN tell me the things which you object to or you think is inappropriate. The chapter number is 19.

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George

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Posted: 26 April 2006 at 7:41am

Originally posted by ak_m_f

Originally posted by George

Originally posted by zulqarnain

If there was a religion truer than Islam, I would accept that! I know that Islam is the truest of all religion, because in Islamic terminology, it means "Submitting your will to Allah (God)" Not "submitting you will to Jesus"

Christians submit to one God and one God only.

Then how do you explain this:

It is one God. Look in the middle of the triangle. Jesus is the Word of God made flesh--not a different god; the Holy Spirit is also God, but not a different god. You must draw a circle slightly off to one side on the word "son" not off of it. That would represent the divine and human nature of the son.

That's a great picture. Where did you get it?

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George

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Posted: 26 April 2006 at 7:50am

Originally posted by zulqarnain

But can the christians tell me, what do you think about the fact the the church altrerd the original text of the Bible. Why then do you still believe in it? Why don't you want to see God's own original messages and teachings in writing?

I did quite a study on textual critisim of the New Testament. There was some editing. One edit that I can remember is about the virgin birth of Jesus. The writer gave the impression in one of the verses that Jesus' father may have been Joseph. It was changed to make the text clearer. This was done because the church was fighting adoptionism--people who said that Jesus became the Son of God by adoption. They did not believe in the virgin birth.

No editing affected any Christian doctrine. We know all of this because we have so many copies of the New Testament, about 5400 Greek, the rest in many languages--about 24,000 copies in all. The process involves comparing them and dating them. This way all misspellings, left out verses, and glossess can be identified.

One particular scholar who is recognized as one of the best who worked on this project--Bruce Metger--was asked if his faith was affected by his analysis. He said not in the least. He went on to say that his faith in the integrity of the New Testament had been strengthened.

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George

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Posted: 26 April 2006 at 7:53am

Originally posted by zulqarnain

Jesus's body is of course dust, but his soul was lifted up into the heavens befor he could endure the pain of crucifiction-he wasn't crucified. He was one of God's dearest prophets, he never wanted him to suffer that sort of pain. He will kill the Antichrist. For this, he is going to come back on Earth, and then die a normal death.

This is an interesting comment. Are you saying that Jesus died on the cross? I have been told by many Muslims that Jesus was lifted up to heaven, body and soul, and didn't die.

Interesting that God didn't say all the other prophets who were killed. Why did he just save Jesus? Any thoughts?

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fredifreeloader

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Posted: 26 April 2006 at 8:23am

Originally posted by ak_m_f

Originally posted by fredifreeloader

quran 22: 65, which says that it is allah who is stopping the sky falling on the earth? is this supposed to be scientific? how could the sky fall on the earth?

22:65

See you not that Allâh has subjected to you (mankind) all that is on the earth, and the ships that sail
through the sea by His Command? He withholds the heaven from falling on the earth except by His
Leave. Verily, Allâh is, for mankind, full of Kindness, Most Merciful.

Main Entry: heav·en
Pronunciation: 'he-v&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English heven, from Old English heofon; akin to Old High German himil heaven
1 : the expanse of space that seems to be over the earth like a dome

Maybe God is talking about Ozone layer?

well akmf, if its the ozone layer hes talking about, hes going to be out of a job soon the way things are going, as its disappearing fast, and therell soon be nothing to stop falling!

for i am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth - romans 1: 16

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BMZ

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Posted: 26 April 2006 at 8:25am

That is a very interesting comment. I think what zulqarnain is saying is that God made Jesus unconscious by taking his soul away for a while and gave it back to him after hearing the plea:

"Eli, Eli. lama sabachtani."

How could God let him, the miraculously-born child, die, whom God created without a father. Quite possible. During the said six hours period, many things might have happened fast.

I think for the sake of discussions, there is no harm in assuming that.

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zulqarnain

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Posted: 26 April 2006 at 8:40am

Some muslims say he was lifted towards the heaven with the body, some say only the soul. But let us not discuss this little detail. You asked why did he just save Jesus?
The two main reasons that I know are that he is destined to kill the Antichrist. To kill him he would be sent down to this Earth. Secondly, according to our traditions, Jesus will also come towards the Christians to tell them that he never claimed to be God or the son of God.

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Topic: Answers from the Christians
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Author	Message
George Senior Member Joined: 14 April 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 406	Posted: 26 April 2006 at 7:37am
	*Originally posted by bmzsp* George, From you:"Christians submit to one God and one God only." Name him George, just name that One God and one God only, please. Just write down only one name, please. Yahweh
	IP Logged

zulqarnain Groupie Joined: 24 April 2006 Location: Pakistan Online Status: Offline Posts: 94	Posted: 26 April 2006 at 7:40am
	Tell you what george. First read the chapter "Mary" in the Quraan, THEN tell me the things which you object to or you think is inappropriate. The chapter number is 19.
	IP Logged

George Senior Member Joined: 14 April 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 406	Posted: 26 April 2006 at 7:41am
	*Originally posted by ak_m_f* *Originally posted by George* *Originally posted by zulqarnain* If there was a religion truer than Islam, I would accept that! I know that Islam is the truest of all religion, because in Islamic terminology, it means "Submitting your will to Allah (God)" Not "submitting you will to Jesus" Christians submit to one God and one God only. Then how do you explain this: It is one God. Look in the middle of the triangle. Jesus is the Word of God made flesh--not a different god; the Holy Spirit is also God, but not a different god. You must draw a circle slightly off to one side on the word "son" not off of it. That would represent the divine and human nature of the son. That's a great picture. Where did you get it?
	IP Logged

George Senior Member Joined: 14 April 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 406	Posted: 26 April 2006 at 7:50am
	*Originally posted by zulqarnain* But can the christians tell me, what do you think about the fact the the church altrerd the original text of the Bible. Why then do you still believe in it? Why don't you want to see God's own original messages and teachings in writing? I did quite a study on textual critisim of the New Testament. There was some editing. One edit that I can remember is about the virgin birth of Jesus. The writer gave the impression in one of the verses that Jesus' father may have been Joseph. It was changed to make the text clearer. This was done because the church was fighting adoptionism--people who said that Jesus became the Son of God by adoption. They did not believe in the virgin birth. No editing affected any Christian doctrine. We know all of this because we have so many copies of the New Testament, about 5400 Greek, the rest in many languages--about 24,000 copies in all. The process involves comparing them and dating them. This way all misspellings, left out verses, and glossess can be identified. One particular scholar who is recognized as one of the best who worked on this project--Bruce Metger--was asked if his faith was affected by his analysis. He said not in the least. He went on to say that his faith in the integrity of the New Testament had been strengthened.
	IP Logged

George Senior Member Joined: 14 April 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 406	Posted: 26 April 2006 at 7:53am
	*Originally posted by zulqarnain* Jesus's body is of course dust, but his soul was lifted up into the heavens befor he could endure the pain of crucifiction-he wasn't crucified. He was one of God's dearest prophets, he never wanted him to suffer that sort of pain. He will kill the Antichrist. For this, he is going to come back on Earth, and then die a normal death. This is an interesting comment. Are you saying that Jesus died on the cross? I have been told by many Muslims that Jesus was lifted up to heaven, body and soul, and didn't die. Interesting that God didn't say all the other prophets who were killed. Why did he just save Jesus? Any thoughts?
	IP Logged

fredifreeloader Guest Group Joined: 17 February 2006 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 456	Posted: 26 April 2006 at 8:23am
	*Originally posted by ak_m_f* *Originally posted by fredifreeloader* quran 22: 65, which says that it is allah who is stopping the sky falling on the earth? is this supposed to be scientific? how could the sky fall on the earth? 22:65 See you not that Allâh has subjected to you (mankind) all that is on the earth, and the ships that sail through the sea by His Command? He withholds the heaven from falling on the earth except by His Leave. Verily, Allâh is, for mankind, full of Kindness, Most Merciful. Main Entry: heav·en Pronunciation: 'he-v&n Function: noun Etymology: Middle English heven, from Old English heofon; akin to Old High German himil heaven 1 : the expanse of space that seems to be over the earth like a dome Maybe God is talking about Ozone layer? well *akmf, if its the ozone layer* hes talking about, hes going to be out of a job soon the way things are going, as its disappearing fast, and therell soon be nothing to stop falling!
	for i am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth - romans 1: 16
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BMZ Moderator Group Joined: 03 April 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1852	Posted: 26 April 2006 at 8:25am
	That is a very interesting comment. I think what zulqarnain is saying is that God made Jesus unconscious by taking his soul away for a while and gave it back to him after hearing the plea: "Eli, Eli. lama sabachtani." How could God let him, the miraculously-born child, die, whom God created without a father. Quite possible. During the said six hours period, many things might have happened fast. I think for the sake of discussions, there is no harm in assuming that.
	IP Logged

zulqarnain Groupie Joined: 24 April 2006 Location: Pakistan Online Status: Offline Posts: 94	Posted: 26 April 2006 at 8:40am
	Some muslims say he was lifted towards the heaven with the body, some say only the soul. But let us not discuss this little detail. You asked why did he just save Jesus? The two main reasons that I know are that he is destined to kill the Antichrist. To kill him he would be sent down to this Earth. Secondly, according to our traditions, Jesus will also come towards the Christians to tell them that he never claimed to be God or the son of God.
	IP Logged