IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum: Jesus is God (or not)

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zulqarnain

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Posted: 01 May 2006 at 10:47pm

Allah asked angels to bow down to Adam because he, being a human, had one power the Angels did not have, and,that was mainly knowledge, some also say that 'having a free-will' also carries significance compared to Angels. And the greatness of knowledge was displayed when Allah taught the names of His existing creations to Adam, and he could memrize. And then Adam told the Angels all which Allah had taught him.

And We have not sent you(O Muhammad!) but as a mercy to the worlds. (Al-Quran 21: 107)

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BMZ

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Posted: 02 May 2006 at 2:13am

Can all of us come back to the topic, "Jesus is God (or not)?

My conclusion is that he was NOT? Had he been one, it would have been a success story as he would have not have run into untold troubles and miseries inflicted upon him by the Jews. He would have become the "King Messiah", but in fact he did not.

Agreed?

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zulqarnain

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Posted: 02 May 2006 at 3:07am

I agree with bmz. Now lets please close such topics, I'm sick and tired of giving answers and references..

And We have not sent you(O Muhammad!) but as a mercy to the worlds. (Al-Quran 21: 107)

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Angel

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Posted: 02 May 2006 at 9:40am

Zulqarnain, No this will not close, I for one started this and I am still involved despite me not being able to be here for some days I am not finish I have replies to do

For the rest of the participants here, Sorry for not being able to be here but I haven't forgotten and look forward to getting back soon

George I printed out the article from that guy and read it on the train to work but there is something that is in error I believe.

[IMG]http://www.mysmilie.de/smilies/engel/img/003.gif" />~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~

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fredifreeloader

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Posted: 02 May 2006 at 9:56am

bismarck wrote: "the Crucifiction was a Passover" - your sly, antichrist insinuation has not escaped me, bismarck. let us put it properly thus - "the crucifixion was a passover" - and so it was. it was the passover to end all passovers, the sacrificial lamb being none other than the Lamb of God

for i am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth - romans 1: 16

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George

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Posted: 02 May 2006 at 10:10am

Originally posted by bmzsp

Can all of us come back to the topic, "Jesus is God (or not)?

Agreed?

Jesus' story was a success story and Jesus was the King Messiah. God vindicated all of his claims. The was the Victory of God.

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Alibaba

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Posted: 02 May 2006 at 12:31pm

BMZ = you are leaving out of the equation the prophecy found in Isaiah, chapter 53, of the Jewish Bible, which states that the Messiah must suffer and die as an atonement for sin.

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BMZ

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Posted: 02 May 2006 at 6:40pm

Hi Ali Baba,

From you:

"BMZ = you are leaving out of the equation the prophecy found in Isaiah, chapter 53, of the Jewish Bible, which states that the Messiah must suffer and die as an atonement for sin."

I do not consider Isaiah 53 in the equation as it was not a prophecy, for the following reasons:

Chapter 53 from the Jewish Bible is titled "Israel suffers for the Lord".

Chapter 53 from the Christian Old Testament is titled, "The Suffering and Glory of the Servant."

A sample:

Isaiah 53:10 from the Jewish Bible: "Yet it pleased the Lord to crush him by disease; To see if his soul would offer itself in restitution, That he might see his seed, prolong his days, And the purpose of the Lord might prosper by his hand:"

Isaiah 53:10 from the Christian OT: "Yet it was the Lord's will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the Lord makes his life a guilt offering, he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the Lord will propsper in his hand."

Ali Baba, with the above changes made to Isaiah 53:1-12 of the Jewish Bible, this is a serious change made to the words and the meanings of the Jewish "Isaiah".

That is the reason, I do not consider Isaiah 53, a prophecy of any kind. It is talking about the past.

Please read the entire Isaiah in the Jewish Bible and compare it with Isaiah in the Christian OT. You will find the difference easily.

Best Regards

BMZ

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Topic: Jesus is God (or not)( Topic Closed)
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Author	Message
zulqarnain Groupie Joined: 24 April 2006 Location: Pakistan Online Status: Offline Posts: 94	Posted: 01 May 2006 at 10:47pm
	Allah asked angels to bow down to Adam because he, being a human, had one power the Angels did not have, and,that was mainly knowledge, some also say that 'having a free-will' also carries significance compared to Angels. And the greatness of knowledge was displayed when Allah taught the names of His existing creations to Adam, and he could memrize. And then Adam told the Angels all which Allah had taught him.
	And We have not sent you(O Muhammad!) but as a mercy to the worlds. (Al-Quran 21: 107)
	IP Logged

BMZ Moderator Group Joined: 03 April 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1852	Posted: 02 May 2006 at 2:13am
	Can all of us come back to the topic, "Jesus is God (or not)? My conclusion is that he was NOT? Had he been one, it would have been a success story as he would have not have run into untold troubles and miseries inflicted upon him by the Jews. He would have become the "King Messiah", but in fact he did not. Agreed?
	IP Logged

zulqarnain Groupie Joined: 24 April 2006 Location: Pakistan Online Status: Offline Posts: 94	Posted: 02 May 2006 at 3:07am
	I agree with bmz. Now lets please close such topics, I'm sick and tired of giving answers and references..
	And We have not sent you(O Muhammad!) but as a mercy to the worlds. (Al-Quran 21: 107)
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Angel Senior Member Joined: 03 July 2001 Online Status: Offline Posts: 6626	Posted: 02 May 2006 at 9:40am
	Zulqarnain, No this will not close, I for one started this and I am still involved despite me not being able to be here for some days I am not finish I have replies to do For the rest of the participants here, Sorry for not being able to be here but I haven't forgotten and look forward to getting back soon George I printed out the article from that guy and read it on the train to work but there is something that is in error I believe.
	[IMG]http://www.mysmilie.de/smilies/engel/img/003.gif" />~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
	IP Logged

fredifreeloader Guest Group Joined: 17 February 2006 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 456	Posted: 02 May 2006 at 9:56am
	*bismarck* wrote: "the Crucifiction was a Passover" - your sly, antichrist insinuation has not escaped me, *bismarck. let us put it properly thus - "the crucifixion was a passover" - and so it was.* it was the passover to end all passovers, the sacrificial lamb being none other than the Lamb of God
	for i am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth - romans 1: 16
	IP Logged

George Senior Member Joined: 14 April 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 406	Posted: 02 May 2006 at 10:10am
	*Originally posted by bmzsp* Can all of us come back to the topic, "Jesus is God (or not)? My conclusion is that he was NOT? Had he been one, it would have been a success story as he would have not have run into untold troubles and miseries inflicted upon him by the Jews. He would have become the "King Messiah", but in fact he did not. Agreed? Jesus' story was a success story and Jesus was the King Messiah. God vindicated all of his claims. The was the Victory of God.
	IP Logged

Alibaba Guest Group Joined: 19 April 2006 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 134	Posted: 02 May 2006 at 12:31pm
	BMZ = you are leaving out of the equation the prophecy found in Isaiah, chapter 53, of the Jewish Bible, which states that the Messiah must suffer and die as an atonement for sin.
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BMZ Moderator Group Joined: 03 April 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1852	Posted: 02 May 2006 at 6:40pm
	Hi Ali Baba, From you: "BMZ = you are leaving out of the equation the prophecy found in Isaiah, chapter 53, of the Jewish Bible, which states that the Messiah must suffer and die as an atonement for sin." I do not consider Isaiah 53 in the equation as it was not a prophecy, for the following reasons: Chapter 53 from the Jewish Bible is titled "Israel suffers for the Lord". Chapter 53 from the Christian Old Testament is titled, "The Suffering and Glory of the Servant." A sample: Isaiah 53:10 from the Jewish Bible: "Yet it pleased the Lord to crush him by disease; To see if his soul would offer itself in restitution, That he might see his seed, prolong his days, And the purpose of the Lord might prosper by his hand:" Isaiah 53:10 from the Christian OT: "Yet it was the Lord's will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the Lord makes his life a guilt offering, he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the Lord will propsper in his hand." Ali Baba, with the above changes made to Isaiah 53:1-12 of the Jewish Bible, this is a serious change made to the words and the meanings of the Jewish "Isaiah". That is the reason, I do not consider Isaiah 53, a prophecy of any kind. It is talking about the past. Please read the entire Isaiah in the Jewish Bible and compare it with Isaiah in the Christian OT. You will find the difference easily. Best Regards BMZ
	IP Logged