IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum: Jesus is God (or not)

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mariyah

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Posted: 26 April 2006 at 12:40am

Assalaamu waylakum:

Found a Historical Perspective on the origins of the Bible and the origin of the claim that Jesus the prophet (pbuh) was divine. Cant say I agree or disagree with what it says, but it is interesting and was written from a secular viewpoint.

http://www.bidstrup.com/bible.htm

"Every good deed is charity whether you come to your brother's assistance or just greet him with a smile.

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George

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Posted: 26 April 2006 at 8:09am

Originally posted by Maryah

Assalaamu waylakum:

http://www.bidstrup.com/bible.htm

I did a google and asked who wrote the Koran? Here are some sites that popped up:

http://www.hauns.com/~DCQu4E5g/koran7.html

http://bibleandquran.com/quran-word-of-god9.htm

http://debate.org.uk/topics/books/origins-koran.html

These articles are also interesting.

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Servetus
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Posted: 26 April 2006 at 8:39am

BMZ,

“I don't know how long people will be kept in that paradox.”

I didn’t say parabox, mate, I said paradox .

Best regards,

Serv

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BMZ

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Posted: 26 April 2006 at 8:46am

Serv,

That was a good one. Thanks for responding, mate.

BR & Good Night from Singapore

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Bismarck

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Posted: 27 April 2006 at 9:15pm

Originally posted by Angel

To those Christians who keep saying that Jesus is God, and that the Catholic's believe this, can you please bring some evidence from scriptures.

Isn't it the Trinitarians that believe Jesus is God, not all christians and that the Nicene creed came from them?.

All my life I have known that Catholic don't believe that Jesus is God, despite the "In the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit".

Even in the bible Jesus doesn't not claim to be God.

God and Jesus are separate beings, otherwise we wouldn't be having Son of God or God's only begotten son nor would we have Jesus speaking to God.

I know in the book that there is god and then there is God, there is a difference between the two. In some parts Jesus says he is god just like the rest of us, BUT it is in no way that its meant to be "God" the Almighty Father.

When you put the proper meaning/use of god/God in the scriptures then you get a slightly different meaning and understanding.

Some peope do miss some vital information

If Yeshua haMashiach = God...

How does God intercede between God and Mankind? That is, how does God inter-cede, ie, come between, Himself and Mankind? How can God come between His own Self and Man?

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Bismarck

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Posted: 27 April 2006 at 9:52pm

If God created all things through his wisdom, then he did it through Christ.

It is my understanding that Yeshua haMashiach ushered in the Messianic age. Possibly, a more exact/precise wording would be, Yeshua haMashiach was the culmination of the Messianic times and ushered in the post-Messianic Age of Salvation.

The Crucifiction was a Passover. Afterwards, as shown in Acts, Simon Peter led the Believers in a New Way of Living, Living out the Messianic Way of Life in Jerusalem. That was the "Day of the New Creation" of God's Church on Earth. That was the "Dawn of a New Era". Everything before that time, around 35 CE, was therefore "Before the [New] Creation". The Messiah was the "firstborn from the dead"... that is, before the Crucifiction and Resurrection, all the world was bound in the death-chains of Sin. As of Easter, the Messiah punched a hole in the Snake's prison walls, and was the Spearhead of Salvation, the Vanguard of Freedom into Life through Christ.

It is my understanding that this "Second Creation", this burgeoning Resurrection through Christ, should not be confused with the "First Creation" by Almighty God in Genesis 1-2.

I am willing to argue these scripturally, but my inet is about to cut out.

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BMZ

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Posted: 29 April 2006 at 12:58am

Bismarck,

The Truth from you:

"The Crucifiction was a Passover." I agree with that wholeheartedly.

I would like to re-write, "Afterwards, as shown in Acts, Simon Peter led the Believers in a New Way of Living, Living out the Messianic Way of Life in Jerusalem." by adding a small comment within.

"Afterwards, as shown in Acts, Simon Peter, the one who had clearly disowned Jesus three times openly, led the Believers in a New Way of Living, Living out the Messianic Way of Life in Jerusalem, which was futher made newer by Paul, the giant."

"It is my understanding that this "Second Creation", this burgeoning Resurrection through Christ, should not be confused with the "First Creation" by Almighty God in Genesis 1-2."

Adam still retains the First Spot. Nothing changes that because if Adam were not created then David would not have been born!

Best Regards

BMZ

Edited by bmzsp

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George

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Posted: 30 April 2006 at 9:30am

Originally posted by bmzsp

Bismarck,

The Truth from you:

"The Crucifiction was a Passover." I agree with that wholeheartedly.

I would like to re-write, "Afterwards, as shown in Acts, Simon Peter led the Believers in a New Way of Living, Living out the Messianic Way of Life in Jerusalem." by adding a small comment within.

"It is my understanding that this "Second Creation", this burgeoning Resurrection through Christ, should not be confused with the "First Creation" by Almighty God in Genesis 1-2."

Adam still retains the First Spot. Nothing changes that because if Adam were not created then David would not have been born!

Best Regards

BMZ

You are probably right. Guess this is why Allah asked the angels to bow down to his first created man.

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Topic: Jesus is God (or not)( Topic Closed)
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Author	Message
mariyah Senior Member Joined: 29 March 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1283	Posted: 26 April 2006 at 12:40am
	Assalaamu waylakum: Found a Historical Perspective on the origins of the Bible and the origin of the claim that Jesus the prophet (pbuh) was divine. Cant say I agree or disagree with what it says, but it is interesting and was written from a secular viewpoint. http://www.bidstrup.com/bible.htm
	"Every good deed is charity whether you come to your brother's assistance or just greet him with a smile.
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George Senior Member Joined: 14 April 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 406	Posted: 26 April 2006 at 8:09am
	*Originally posted by Maryah* Assalaamu waylakum: Found a Historical Perspective on the origins of the Bible and the origin of the claim that Jesus the prophet (pbuh) was divine. Cant say I agree or disagree with what it says, but it is interesting and was written from a secular viewpoint. http://www.bidstrup.com/bible.htm I did a google and asked who wrote the Koran? Here are some sites that popped up: http://www.hauns.com/~DCQu4E5g/koran7.html http://bibleandquran.com/quran-word-of-god9.htm http://debate.org.uk/topics/books/origins-koran.html These articles are also interesting.
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Servetus Male Christian Senior Member Joined: 04 April 2001 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 2097	Posted: 26 April 2006 at 8:39am
	BMZ, “I don't know how long people will be kept in that paradox.” I didn’t say parabox, mate, I said paradox . Best regards, Serv
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BMZ Moderator Group Joined: 03 April 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1852	Posted: 26 April 2006 at 8:46am
	Serv, That was a good one. Thanks for responding, mate. BR & Good Night from Singapore
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Bismarck Senior Member Joined: 01 March 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 284	Posted: 27 April 2006 at 9:15pm
	*Originally posted by Angel* To those Christians who keep saying that Jesus is God, and that the Catholic's believe this, can you please bring some evidence from scriptures. Isn't it the Trinitarians that believe Jesus is God, not all christians and that the Nicene creed came from them?. All my life I have known that Catholic don't believe that Jesus is God, despite the "In the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit". Even in the bible Jesus doesn't not claim to be God. God and Jesus are separate beings, otherwise we wouldn't be having Son of God or God's only begotten son nor would we have Jesus speaking to God. I know in the book that there is god and then there is God, there is a difference between the two. In some parts Jesus says he is god just like the rest of us, BUT it is in no way that its meant to be "God" the Almighty Father. When you put the proper meaning/use of god/God in the scriptures then you get a slightly different meaning and understanding. Some peope do miss some vital information If Yeshua haMashiach = God... How does God intercede between God and Mankind? That is, how does God inter-cede, ie, come between, Himself and Mankind? How can God come between His own Self and Man?
	IP Logged

Bismarck Senior Member Joined: 01 March 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 284	Posted: 27 April 2006 at 9:52pm
	If God created all things through his wisdom, then he did it through Christ. It is my understanding that Yeshua haMashiach ushered in the Messianic age. Possibly, a more exact/precise wording would be, Yeshua haMashiach was the culmination of the Messianic times and ushered in the post-Messianic Age of Salvation. The Crucifiction was a Passover. Afterwards, as shown in Acts, Simon Peter led the Believers in a New Way of Living, Living out the Messianic Way of Life in Jerusalem. That was the "Day of the New Creation" of God's Church on Earth. That was the "Dawn of a New Era". Everything before that time, around 35 CE, was therefore "Before the [New] Creation". The Messiah was the "firstborn from the dead"... that is, before the Crucifiction and Resurrection, all the world was bound in the death-chains of Sin. As of Easter, the Messiah punched a hole in the Snake's prison walls, and was the Spearhead of Salvation, the Vanguard of Freedom into Life through Christ. It is my understanding that this "Second Creation", this burgeoning Resurrection through Christ, should not be confused with the "First Creation" by Almighty God in Genesis 1-2. I am willing to argue these scripturally, but my inet is about to cut out.
	IP Logged

BMZ Moderator Group Joined: 03 April 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1852	Posted: 29 April 2006 at 12:58am
	Bismarck, The Truth from you: "The Crucifiction was a Passover." I agree with that wholeheartedly. I would like to re-write, "Afterwards, as shown in Acts, Simon Peter led the Believers in a New Way of Living, Living out the Messianic Way of Life in Jerusalem." by adding a small comment within. "Afterwards, as shown in Acts, Simon Peter, the one who had clearly disowned Jesus three times openly, led the Believers in a New Way of Living, Living out the Messianic Way of Life in Jerusalem, which was futher made newer by Paul, the giant." "It is my understanding that this "Second Creation", this burgeoning Resurrection through Christ, should not be confused with the "First Creation" by Almighty God in Genesis 1-2." Adam still retains the First Spot. Nothing changes that because if Adam were not created then David would not have been born! Best Regards BMZ Edited by bmzsp
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George Senior Member Joined: 14 April 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 406	Posted: 30 April 2006 at 9:30am
	*Originally posted by bmzsp* Bismarck, The Truth from you: "The Crucifiction was a Passover." I agree with that wholeheartedly. I would like to re-write, "Afterwards, as shown in Acts, Simon Peter led the Believers in a New Way of Living, Living out the Messianic Way of Life in Jerusalem." by adding a small comment within. "Afterwards, as shown in Acts, Simon Peter, the one who had clearly disowned Jesus three times openly, led the Believers in a New Way of Living, Living out the Messianic Way of Life in Jerusalem, which was futher made newer by Paul, the giant." "It is my understanding that this "Second Creation", this burgeoning Resurrection through Christ, should not be confused with the "First Creation" by Almighty God in Genesis 1-2." Adam still retains the First Spot. Nothing changes that because if Adam were not created then David would not have been born! Best Regards BMZ You are probably right. Guess this is why Allah asked the angels to bow down to his first created man.
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