IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum: Jesus is God (or not)

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BMZ

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Posted: 25 April 2006 at 10:00am

Servetus,

Holy Cow!

"Welcome to paradox."

I don't know how long people will be kept in that paradox.

BMZ

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Angel

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Posted: 25 April 2006 at 6:21pm

HI guys, I'm sorry that I haven't been since I started this, got some stuff going on and don't have much time lately. I will reply as I can but please bear with me I am not fast nor fast typer

[IMG]http://www.mysmilie.de/smilies/engel/img/003.gif" />~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~

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Angel

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Posted: 25 April 2006 at 6:36pm

Originally posted by George

Catholics believe that the Word of God incarnated Jesus. They believe that he is 100% human and 100% divine. They believe that God is the Father and the Word (son) and the Holy Spirit--all God--in three "persons" -- the same divine substance.

There is no problem to be both human and divine, if you ask me we all are

Yes God is the Father and the word of God, Jesus spoke the word of God and I'm not really arguing that, that does not make it that Jesus is God, How Jesus acted was of God's nature/God's will, don't we have that in ourselves as well? To become Christ like which is also to become divinely [NOT as in God our creator] (for us ordinary folks) is to follow Jesus who acted divinely from the Holy Spirit - God's will or God's nature either one.

What religion are you?

Does that really matter ??

Your post is too long, my dear. I'll try to have something for you to think about sometime next week.

Your lost

[IMG]http://www.mysmilie.de/smilies/engel/img/003.gif" />~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~

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Angel

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Posted: 25 April 2006 at 6:40pm

Originally posted by George

Originally posted by Angela

Well, there ya go, I would actually be arguing in support of you. Since we don't believe Elohim and Jesus are the same.

Who is "we" Angela? The "same" what?

Angela meant her and me (we) and that we both don't believe God and Jesus are the same (entity, being, person)

[IMG]http://www.mysmilie.de/smilies/engel/img/003.gif" />~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~

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Angel

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Posted: 25 April 2006 at 6:45pm

Originally posted by fredifreeloader

very lengthy quotations, angel. you posted 100 verses purporting to show that Jesus and God are different things. perhaps you could help by going through them, to show exactly how they show this

If I do that then you will have to really really really bear with me, I'm not sure if I can thou and I believe a lot of them are explained in the website I provided which basically is similar to the way I understand it.

[IMG]http://www.mysmilie.de/smilies/engel/img/003.gif" />~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~

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Angel

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Posted: 25 April 2006 at 6:49pm

Originally posted by George

Angel,

I went over some of your post and I'm am very sorry but it is too long and there are so many "inaccuracies" in it that it would take me forever to respond to them all.

inaccurancies

Inaccurancies like you believing that Jesus is God

I can give you a couple of websites to look over if you wish.

Jesus is God

http://web.archive.org/web/20021206035950/ic.net/~erasmus/RA Z98.HTM

Trinity

http://web.archive.org/web/20040217141524/ic.net/~erasmus/RA Z99.HTM

Good luck.

Thanks.wil have to look at it later.

[IMG]http://www.mysmilie.de/smilies/engel/img/003.gif" />~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~

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Angel

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Posted: 25 April 2006 at 7:07pm

Originally posted by bmzsp

Angel,

That was a huge effort and looking at all the stuff that people wrote and you quoted, everyone including even the Christians should be able to say that Jesus is not God.

To understand God in all Majesty, Glory and Truth, it would be better to read and quote from the chapter of Isaiah in the Jewish Bible or the OT.

Some pearls from Isaiah:

42:8 "I am the Lord; that is my name! I will not give my glory to another or praise to idols."

43:10-12 "Before me no god was formed, nor willl there be one after me. "I, even I, am the Lord and apart from me there is no saviour. I have revealed and saved and proclaimed- I, and not some foreign god among you. You are my witnesses," declares the Lord, "that I am God. Yes, and from ancient days I am he. No one can deliver out of my hand. When I act, who can reverse it?"

44:6 "I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God."

44:8 "Do not tremble, do not be afraid. Did I not proclaim this and foretell it long ago? You are my witnesses. Is there any God besides me? No, there is no other Rock; I know not one."

After reading all of above, Jesus is not God at all.

BMZ

Did not Jesus spoke God's words and teach it ? And Didn't Jesus speak it word for word ? Of course people are going to think Jesus is God I can see how/why people would do so.

How is Jesus going to teach and show God's words and will if he didn't actually animated God's words and will.

For example if I am speaking some of God's words from the bible or the qur'an (since qu'ran is (supposedly) God's words) am I God ? is Muhammed God since he spoke and taught God's words. Jesus spoke orally, yes, so I can see how people can think Jesus is God since the words came from his mouth.

I agree with what fredi mentioned:

bmz - none of the verses you quote from isaiah show that Jesus is not God. what they show is that there is only one God, and so if any other "god" comes along, claiming to be something other than God, or different to God, then he/it cannot be God

[IMG]http://www.mysmilie.de/smilies/engel/img/003.gif" />~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~

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Angel

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Posted: 25 April 2006 at 7:31pm

have to go now but will back to respond more

George: Posted: 22 April 2006 at 12:26pm

Posted: 22 April 2006 at 12:35pm

Posted: 24 April 2006 at 10:14am

George, your post on the 22nd, Doesn't show that Jesus is God not in the verses adn not in your own words either, your words put a distinction between Jesus and God. more later.

[IMG]http://www.mysmilie.de/smilies/engel/img/003.gif" />~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~

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Topic: Jesus is God (or not)( Topic Closed)
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Author	Message
BMZ Moderator Group Joined: 03 April 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1852	Posted: 25 April 2006 at 10:00am
	Servetus, Holy Cow! "Welcome to paradox." I don't know how long people will be kept in that paradox. BR BMZ
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Angel Senior Member Joined: 03 July 2001 Online Status: Offline Posts: 6626	Posted: 25 April 2006 at 6:21pm
	HI guys, I'm sorry that I haven't been since I started this, got some stuff going on and don't have much time lately. I will reply as I can but please bear with me I am not fast nor fast typer
	[IMG]http://www.mysmilie.de/smilies/engel/img/003.gif" />~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
	IP Logged

Angel Senior Member Joined: 03 July 2001 Online Status: Offline Posts: 6626	Posted: 25 April 2006 at 6:36pm
	*Originally posted by George* Catholics believe that the Word of God incarnated Jesus. They believe that he is 100% human and 100% divine. They believe that God is the Father and the Word (son) and the Holy Spirit--all God--in three "persons" -- the same divine substance. There is no problem to be both human and divine, if you ask me we all are Yes God is the Father and the word of God, Jesus spoke the word of God and I'm not really arguing that, that does not make it that Jesus is God, How Jesus acted was of God's nature/God's will, don't we have that in ourselves as well? To become Christ like which is also to become divinely [NOT as in God our creator] (for us ordinary folks) is to follow Jesus who acted divinely from the Holy Spirit - God's will or God's nature either one. What religion are you? Does that really matter ?? Your post is too long, my dear. I'll try to have something for you to think about sometime next week. Your lost
	[IMG]http://www.mysmilie.de/smilies/engel/img/003.gif" />~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
	IP Logged

Angel Senior Member Joined: 03 July 2001 Online Status: Offline Posts: 6626	Posted: 25 April 2006 at 6:40pm
	*Originally posted by George* *Originally posted by Angela* Well, there ya go, I would actually be arguing in support of you. Since we don't believe Elohim and Jesus are the same. Who is "we" Angela? The "same" what? Angela meant her and me (we) and that we both don't believe God and Jesus are the same (entity, being, person)
	[IMG]http://www.mysmilie.de/smilies/engel/img/003.gif" />~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
	IP Logged

Angel Senior Member Joined: 03 July 2001 Online Status: Offline Posts: 6626	Posted: 25 April 2006 at 6:45pm
	*Originally posted by fredifreeloader* very lengthy quotations, *angel.* you posted 100 verses purporting to show that Jesus and God are different things. perhaps you could help by going through them, to show exactly how they show this If I do that then you will have to really really really bear with me, I'm not sure if I can thou and I believe a lot of them are explained in the website I provided which basically is similar to the way I understand it.
	[IMG]http://www.mysmilie.de/smilies/engel/img/003.gif" />~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
	IP Logged

Angel Senior Member Joined: 03 July 2001 Online Status: Offline Posts: 6626	Posted: 25 April 2006 at 6:49pm
	*Originally posted by George* Angel, I went over some of your post and I'm am very sorry but it is too long and there are so many "inaccuracies" in it that it would take me forever to respond to them all. inaccurancies Inaccurancies like you believing that Jesus is God I can give you a couple of websites to look over if you wish. Jesus is God http://web.archive.org/web/20021206035950/ic.net/~erasmus/RA Z98.HTM Trinity http://web.archive.org/web/20040217141524/ic.net/~erasmus/RA Z99.HTM Good luck. Thanks.wil have to look at it later.
	[IMG]http://www.mysmilie.de/smilies/engel/img/003.gif" />~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
	IP Logged

Angel Senior Member Joined: 03 July 2001 Online Status: Offline Posts: 6626	Posted: 25 April 2006 at 7:07pm
	*Originally posted by bmzsp* Angel, That was a huge effort and looking at all the stuff that people wrote and you quoted, everyone including even the Christians should be able to say that Jesus is not God. To understand God in all Majesty, Glory and Truth, it would be better to read and quote from the chapter of Isaiah in the Jewish Bible or the OT. Some pearls from Isaiah: 42:8 "I am the Lord; that is my name! I will not give my glory to another or praise to idols." 43:10-12 "Before me no god was formed, nor willl there be one after me. "I, even I, am the Lord and apart from me there is no saviour. I have revealed and saved and proclaimed- I, and not some foreign god among you. You are my witnesses," declares the Lord, "that I am God. Yes, and from ancient days I am he. No one can deliver out of my hand. When I act, who can reverse it?" 44:6 "I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God." 44:8 "Do not tremble, do not be afraid. Did I not proclaim this and foretell it long ago? You are my witnesses. Is there any God besides me? No, there is no other Rock; I know not one." After reading all of above, Jesus is not God at all. BMZ Did not Jesus spoke God's words and teach it ? And Didn't Jesus speak it word for word ? Of course people are going to think Jesus is God I can see how/why people would do so. How is Jesus going to teach and show God's words and will if he didn't actually animated God's words and will. For example if I am speaking some of God's words from the bible or the qur'an (since qu'ran is (supposedly) God's words) am I God ? is Muhammed God since he spoke and taught God's words. Jesus spoke orally, yes, so I can see how people can think Jesus is God since the words came from his mouth. I agree with what fredi mentioned: *bmz* - none of the verses you quote from isaiah show that Jesus is not God. what they show is that there is only one God, and so if any other "god" comes along, claiming to be something other than God, or different to God, then he/it cannot be God
	[IMG]http://www.mysmilie.de/smilies/engel/img/003.gif" />~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
	IP Logged

Angel Senior Member Joined: 03 July 2001 Online Status: Offline Posts: 6626	Posted: 25 April 2006 at 7:31pm
	have to go now but will back to respond more George: Posted: 22 April 2006 at 12:26pm Posted: 22 April 2006 at 12:35pm Posted: 24 April 2006 at 10:14am George, your post on the 22nd, Doesn't show that Jesus is God not in the verses adn not in your own words either, your words put a distinction between Jesus and God. more later.
	[IMG]http://www.mysmilie.de/smilies/engel/img/003.gif" />~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
	IP Logged