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JOUBERAR
 
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bullet Posted: 24 April 2010 at 8:11am
Originally posted by Mansoor_ali


 JOUBERAR said

 MANSOOR CAN YOU READ SON  {S  O  N}  GOD SENT HIS SON NOT HIS SERVANT PLEASE DO NOT  RUN  AWAY FROM REALITY THEN YOU CAN TELL ME THE KING'S PRINCE IS A SERVANT, THAT DOESN'T WORK LIKE THAT NOT IN REAL LIVE AND DEFINITELY NOT IN SPIRITUAL LIVE.

 

Heb 1:2 But now at last, God sent his Son to bring his message to us. God created the universe by his Son, and everything will someday belong to the Son (Then it must belong to his servants one hell of mispelling or copy error)

 My Response

 
I am quoting Brother Dr.Bilal Philips "The True Message of Jesus Christ"


3. The Son of God

Another of the evidences used for Jesus’ divinity is the application of the title “Son of God” to Jesus.  However, there are numerous places in the Old Testament where this title has been given to others.

God called Israel (Prophet Jacob) His “son” when He instructed Prophet Moses to go to Pharaoh in Exodus 4:22-23,22 And you shall say to Pharaoh, ‘Thus says the Lord, “Israel is my first-born son, 23and I say to you, ‘Let my son go that he may serve me.’ ” [69]

            In 2nd Samuel 8:13-14, God calls Prophet Solomon His son, “13 He [Solomon] shall build a house for my name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom for ever. 14I will be his father, and he shall be my son.

            God promised to make Prophet David His son in Psalms 89:26-27: “26 He shall cry unto me, ‘Thou art my father, my God, and the rock of my salvation,’ 27Also I will make him my first-born, higher than the kings of the earth.”[70]

            Angels are referred to as “sons of God” in The Book of Job 1:6, “Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them.[71]

            In the New Testament, there are many references to “sons of God” other than Jesus.  For example, when the author of the Gospel according to Luke listed Jesus’ ancestors back to Adam, he wrote: “The son of Enos, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.”[72]

            Some claim that what is unique in the case of Jesus, is that he is the only begotten[73] Son of God, while the others are merely “sons of God”. However, God is recorded as saying to Prophet David, in Psalms 2:7, “I will tell the decree of the Lord: He said to me, ‘You are my son, today I have begotten you.’ ”

            It should also be noted that nowhere in the Gospels does Jesus actually call himself “Son of God”.[74]  Instead, he is recorded to have repeatedly called himself “Son of man” (e.g. Luke 9:22) innumerable times. And in Luke 4:41, he actually rejected being called “Son of God”: “And demons also came out of many, crying, ‘You are the Son of God!’   But he rebuked them, and would not allow them to speak, because they knew that he was the Christ.

            Since the Hebrews believed that God is One, and had neither wife nor children in any literal sense, it is obvious that the expression “son of God” merely meant to them “Servant of God”; one who, because of his faithful service, was close and dear to God, as a son is to a father. Christians who came from a Greek or Roman background, later misused this term. In their heritage, “son of God” signified an incarnation of a god or someone born of a physical union between male and female gods.[75] When the Church cast aside its Hebrew foundations, it adopted the pagan concept of “son of God”, which was entirely different from the Hebrew usage.[76]          

            Consequently, the use of the term “son of God” should only be understood from the Semitic symbolic sense of a “servant of God”, and not in the pagan sense of a literal offspring of God. In the four Gospels, Jesus is recorded as saying: “Blessed are the peace-makers; they will be called sons of God.[77]

            Likewise, Jesus’ use of the term abba, “dear father”, should be understood similarly. There is a dispute among New Testament scholars as to precisely what abba meant in Jesus’ time and also as to how widely it was in use by other Jewish sects of that era. 

            James Barr has recently argued forcefully that it did not have the specially intimate sense that has so often been attributed to it, but that it simply meant “father”.[78] To think of God as “our heavenly Father” was by no means new, for in the Lord’s prayer he is reported to have taught his disciples to address God in this same familiar way.

 

In Genesis 6:1-4 the "sons of God" are captivated by the beauty of the "daughters of men." They subsequently marry them and produce an offspring of giants known as the Nephilim. Genesis goes on to say that these Nephilim were "mighty men" and "men of renown."

"Sons of God"? "Daughters of men"? What sort of beings were these? Were they human or did they belong to an alien species from outer space?

IDENTIFYING THE SONS OF GOD

There is no problem in identifying the "daughters of men" for this is a familiar method of designating women in the Bible. The problem lies with the "sons of God." Three major interpretations have been offered to shed light on this cryptic designation.

First, a group within orthodox Judaism theorized that "sons of God" meant "nobles" or "magnates." Hardly anyone today accepts this view.

Second, some interpret the "sons of God" as fallen angels. These were enticed by the women of Earth and began lusting after them. Many reputable Bible commentators have rejected this theory on psycho-physiological grounds. How can one believe, they ask, that angels from Heaven could engage in sexual relations with women from Earth? Philastrius labeled such an interpretation a down-right heresy.

Third, many famed scholars contend that the "sons of God" are the male descendants of Seth, and that the "daughters of men" are the female descendants of Cain. According to this view, what actually happened in Genesis 6 was an early example of believers marrying unbelievers. The good sons of Seth married the bad daughters of Cain, and the result of these mixed marriages was a mongrel offspring. These later became known for their decadence and corruption; indeed, it reached such a degree that God was forced to intervene and destroy the human race. This comment of Matthew Henry could be taken as representative of those holding this view:

"The sons of Seth (that is the professors of religion) married the daughters of men, that is, those that were profane, and strangers to God and godliness. The posterity of Seth did not keep by themselves, as they ought to have done. They inter- mingled themselves with the excommunicated race of Cain." (1)

However, in spite of the excellent pedigree of the proponents of this theory, their argument is not convincing. Their interpretation is pure eisegesis--they are guilty of reading into the text what is obviously not there.

In the Old Testament, the designation "sons of God" (bene Elohim) is never used of humans, but always of supernatural beings that are higher than man but lower than God. To fit such a category only one species is known--angels. And the term "sons of God" applies to both good and bad angels
 

The designation "sons of God" is used four other times in the Old Testament, each time referring to angels. One example is Daniel 3:25, where king Nebuchadnezzar looks into the fiery furnace and sees four men, "and the form of the fourth is like the son of God." The translation is different and clearer in our modern versions, "like a son of the gods." Since Jesus had not yet become the "only begotten son" of God, this "son" would have had to be angelic.

Another example is Job 38:7 which says the sons of God shouted for joy when God laid the foundations of the Earth. Angels are the only entities that fit this designation since man had not been created at that time!

In Job 1:6 and Job 2:1 the "sons of God" came to present themselves before the Lord in Heaven. Among the sons of God is Satan--a further implication that the "sons of God" must have been angels.

Since the designation "sons of God" is consistently used in the Old Testament for angels, it is logical to conclude that the term in Genesis 6:2 also refers to angels.

SONS OF GOD: THREE CATEGORIES

In the New Testament, born-again believers in Christ are called the children of God or the sons of God (Luke 3:38, John 1:12, Romans 8:14, 1 John 3:1). The Companion Bible states: "It is only by the divine specific act of creation that any created being can be called 'a son of God.'" This explains why every born-again believer is a son of God. It explains also why Adam was a son of God. Adam was specifically created by God, "in the likeness of God made He him" (Genesis 5:1). Adam's descendants, however, were different; they were not made in God's likeness but in Adam's. Adam "begat a son in his own likeness, after his image" (Genesis 5:3). Adam was a "son of God," but Adam's descendants were "sons of men."

It is thus clear that the term "sons of God" in the Bible is limited to three categories of beings: angels, Adam and believers. All three are special and specific creations of God. As for the use of the term in Genesis 6, since it cannot possibly refer to Adam nor believers in Christ, we conclude that it has to refer to the angels whom God had created
 
Some scriptures says supernatural beings and say sons of God.
 

Gen 6:1 More and more people were born, until finally they spread all over the earth. Some of their daughters were so beautiful that supernatural beings came down and married the ones they wanted.

 
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Mansoor_ali
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bullet Posted: 01 May 2010 at 5:49am

 To JOUIBERAR

 Taken from If Jesus is called the Son of God, do you think that makes him God?

 

THE MEANING OF THE SON OF GOD

 

Taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Son%5Fof%5FGod

 

In the Tanakh

In the Tanakh, the phrase "sons of god" has multiple meanings:

  • The Hebrew phrase Benei Elohim, often translated as "The Sons of God", describes angels, demigods or immensely powerful human beings. See Genesis 6:2-4. Many Bible scholars believe that this is a reference to pre-Biblical near-eastern mythology.
  • It is used to denote a human judge or ruler (Ps. lxxxii. 6, "children of the Most High"; in many passages "gods" and "judges" seem to be equations); and to the real or ideal king over Israel (II Sam. vii. 14, with reference to David and his dynasty; comp. Ps. lxxxix. 27, 28).
  • The phrases "sons of God" and "children of God" are applied to Israel as a people (comp. Ex. iv. 22 and Hos. xi. 1), the Jewish people, and also to all members of the human race.

In the Tanakh the term does not connote any form of physical descent from, or essential unity with, God. The Hebrew idiom conveys an expression of godlikeness (see Godliness).

In Judaism the term "son of God" is rarely used in the sense of "messiah."

Taken from http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=son+of+God

 

son of God

One entry found for son of God.

<> < name="hdwd" value="son of God" ="">< name="listword" value="son of God" ="">< name="book" value="Dictionary" ="">


Main Entry: son of God
1 often capitalized S : a superhuman or divine being (as an angel)
2 capitalized S : MESSIAH 1
3 : a person established in the love of God by divine promise

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now note, non of the definitions of the son of God or Son of God with a capital S show that being a son of God makes you God. Christians may try to say being superhuman and divine makes you God, well not really since the dictionary puts as an angel in bracket marks. It would have been very easy for the dictionary to simply say that Son of God equals God, the fact they did not put this in also shows that they do not believe the Son of God makes you God, and they are getting their meanings from the Bible not their own heads. So according to the definition, a superhuman or divine being is like an angel, not God.
 
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Matt Browne
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bullet Posted: 01 May 2010 at 6:57am
My concept of God is a very abstract one. I believe God is the creator of our universe's natural laws. Because of these laws we do have stars that shine and planets with all the chemical ingredients for life to evolve into something beautiful and intelligent. Jesus being the son of God has a symbolic meaning, not a biological one. Therefore to me it's perfectly fine to see him as a prophet as well. There's no need to get too excited about this. Jesus was a human being and he had wonderful messages for us. One of the most important one is not to hate other people. We make ourselves very unhappy when we hate other people. This reminder might save us from living a miserable life. Muhammad had a very similar message. If they seek peace, then seek you peace. And trust in God for He is the One that heareth and knoweth all things.

The exact meaning of son of God cannot be used as an excuse not to seek peace between all people on planet Earth in my opinion.



A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt
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bullet Posted: 03 May 2010 at 8:18am
Originally posted by Mansoor_ali


 To JOUIBERAR

 Taken from If Jesus is called the Son of God, do you think that makes him God?

 

THE MEANING OF THE SON OF GOD

 

Taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Son%5Fof%5FGod

 

In the Tanakh

In the Tanakh, the phrase "sons of god" has multiple meanings:

  • The Hebrew phrase Benei Elohim, often translated as "The Sons of God", describes angels, demigods or immensely powerful human beings. See Genesis 6:2-4. Many Bible scholars believe that this is a reference to pre-Biblical near-eastern mythology.
  • It is used to denote a human judge or ruler (Ps. lxxxii. 6, "children of the Most High"; in many passages "gods" and "judges" seem to be equations); and to the real or ideal king over Israel (II Sam. vii. 14, with reference to David and his dynasty; comp. Ps. lxxxix. 27, 28).
  • The phrases "sons of God" and "children of God" are applied to Israel as a people (comp. Ex. iv. 22 and Hos. xi. 1), the Jewish people, and also to all members of the human race.

In the Tanakh the term does not connote any form of physical descent from, or essential unity with, God. The Hebrew idiom conveys an expression of godlikeness (see Godliness).

In Judaism the term "son of God" is rarely used in the sense of "messiah."

Taken from http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=son+of+God

 

son of God

One entry found for son of God.

<> < name="hdwd" value="son of God" ="">< name="listword" value="son of God" ="">< name="book" value="Dictionary" ="">


Main Entry: son of God
1 often capitalized S : a superhuman or divine being (as an angel)
2 capitalized S : MESSIAH 1
3 : a person established in the love of God by divine promise

<!--[if !vml]--><!--[endif]-->

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now note, non of the definitions of the son of God or Son of God with a capital S show that being a son of God makes you God. Christians may try to say being superhuman and divine makes you God, well not really since the dictionary puts as an angel in bracket marks. It would have been very easy for the dictionary to simply say that Son of God equals God, the fact they did not put this in also shows that they do not believe the Son of God makes you God, and they are getting their meanings from the Bible not their own heads. So according to the definition, a superhuman or divine being is like an angel, not God.
 
 
Since the Bible indicates that angels are asexual beings, it makes sense that they could not be the "sons of God" who produced children with the "daughters of men." The best interpretation is that the "sons of God" were men who were descended from Seth, who followed the Lord for a time (in contrast to the line of Cain, which produced the "daughters of men"). However, right before the flood, even the "sons of God" took wives among the line of Cain, and, therefore, became corrupted themselves through their unbelieving wives. This is one of the reasons God determined to destroy the entire human race, except for the eight people who still followed the Lord (Noah and his extended family).
 
The sons of GOD could as well be interpreted as children of God which represent the children of  Isreal as you see in the diff bible translations.
 
On that day some Sadducees (who say there is no resurrection) came to Him and questioned Him, saying, "Teacher, Moses said, 'IF A MAN DIES, HAVING NO CHILDREN, HIS BROTHER AS NEXT OF KIN SHALL MARRY HIS WIFE, AND RAISE UP AN OFFSPRING TO HIS BROTHER.' "Now there were seven brothers with us; and the first married and died, and having no offspring left his wife to his brother; so also the second, and the third, down to the seventh. "And last of all, the woman died. "In the resurrection therefore whose wife of the seven shall she be? For they all had her." But Jesus answered and said to them, "You are mistaken, not understanding the Scriptures, or the power of God. "For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.
 

Job 1:6 And there was a day when the sons of the gods came together before the Lord, and the Satan came with them.

Job 1:6 And vpon a day when the children of God came and stoode before the lord, Satan came also among them.

Job 1:6 One day, when the angels had gathered around the LORD, and Satan was there with them

 

Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.



Edited by JOUBERAR - 03 May 2010 at 8:20am
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JOUBERAR
 
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bullet Posted: 03 May 2010 at 8:24am
Originally posted by Matt Browne

My concept of God is a very abstract one. I believe God is the creator of our universe's natural laws. Because of these laws we do have stars that shine and planets with all the chemical ingredients for life to evolve into something beautiful and intelligent. Jesus being the son of God has a symbolic meaning, not a biological one. Therefore to me it's perfectly fine to see him as a prophet as well. There's no need to get too excited about this. Jesus was a human being and he had wonderful messages for us. One of the most important one is not to hate other people. We make ourselves very unhappy when we hate other people. This reminder might save us from living a miserable life. Muhammad had a very similar message. If they seek peace, then seek you peace. And trust in God for He is the One that heareth and knoweth all things.

The exact meaning of son of God cannot be used as an excuse not to seek peace between all people on planet Earth in my opinion.
 
Sorry there is no simularities between the messages and persons of Jesus and Muhammad.



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bullet Posted: 03 May 2010 at 3:35pm
Welcome and hello Matt,
I see that your concept of God is not abstract at all, it is very much in line with Islamic understanding of God.
I think its OK to talk about how you see God vs how others see it. What is not OK is that some people tend to push their version down the throat of others even when they are proven wrong from their very source. I believe God is behind all creation: from a tiny fly that we cannot comprehend completely to complex stars and galaxies. When someone tries to degrade the Creator by equating Him to one of His creations, it not only offends the Creator but those of us who know and understand that He is above all of that, i.e.  a man, an elephant or a monkey or any other of His creation.
Jesus being a prophet of God is a great thing, Jesus was chosen for this job by God because the Children of Israel were rebellious against God. So it is exciting that he was chosen to lead them out of error, so they can have a chance toward right guidance.
I agree that Jesus was to preach love beside other things, even though he is quoted in the Bible to hate.
Those who don't mean harm to us, should be treated with love, respect and best response. God is Just and asks us to be just as well, and it is only when someone means to harm you or the truth that you are to defend yourself, and the truth.
The earth is a place of trials and tests I believe. And there is the next life, which will be based on how we did in this one, the All Knowing being the Judge.
Our efforts should be to establish Justice and help in that cause on a personal level, the level we will be Judged upon. Because, it is only through Justice that the true peace is achieved at the end.
Thanks again for your input.
Hasan


Edited by honeto - 03 May 2010 at 3:44pm
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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bullet Posted: 07 May 2010 at 8:24pm
Thread will be closed in 48 hours. Thank you.
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bullet Posted: 08 May 2010 at 5:09am
Andalus, NO, PLEASE!!!
 
It just means that I have to make another thread when I get back here, that's not fair because EVERYTHING is here, all my hard work! I don't want to repeat and copy things in another thread! Cry I do plan to get back here, its just not at this moment. I even got replies to some posts here that i haven't put forth yet.
 


Edited by Angel - 08 May 2010 at 5:16am
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