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Interfaith Dialogue
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Message Icon Topic: contradictions in the "holy" quran? Post Reply Post New Topic
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abdnur
 
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Quote abdnur Replybullet Posted: 11 April 2005 at 1:25am

Originally posted by tawhid

Blessings to you my friend in the name of my lord the christ!

I am a Muslim and Yes Christ is my lord as well as Mohammad is my lord, but I worship neither one. I only worship the LORD of my lords just as they did, WHY DON'T YOU do like wise?

As to your questions, I know as well as YOU KNOW that what you quoted has no contradictions in them. The quran was analysed and scrutenized long before you and me and this book has been put to the test over and over, and has never failed a real/fair test.

THE QURAN is ONE book, has ONE author and uses ONE language. No one can question its authenticity. can you say that about any other book(s)??

If you are truly sincere, you would admit that what we (muslims) preach is exactly what YOUR lord preached! WORSHIP GOD and no one else.

abdnur 

 



Edited by abdnur
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tawhid
 
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Quote tawhid Replybullet Posted: 11 April 2005 at 2:09am
Originally posted by abdnur

Originally posted by tawhid

Blessings to you my friend in the name of my lord the christ!

I am a Muslim and Yes Christ is my lord as well as Mohammad is my lord, but I worship neither one. I only worship the LORD of my lords just as they did, WHY DON'T YOU do like wise?

As to your questions, I know as well as YOU KNOW that what you quoted has no contradictions in them. The quran was analysed and scrutenized long before you and me and this book has been put to the test over and over, and has never failed a real/fair test.

THE QURAN is ONE book, has ONE author and uses ONE language. No one can question its authenticity. can you say that about any other book(s)??

If you are truly sincere, you would admit that what we (muslims) preach is exactly what YOUR lord preached! WORSHIP GOD and no one else.

abdnur 

 

im being truly sincere when i say this....

absolutely not...the God that i worship sent his son to die on a cross....

the God that i worship is also ever - existing...stepped into the demensions of time - and died for our sins...

the God i worshiped is the great "i am" of the OT (exodus 3:14) and the new testiment [your injee] john 8:58

the God i worship never reveals himself in one "pure" language...but has translated his word in ALL languages of everytonge...so all nations need NOT learn one language (arabic) in order to pray to him

the god i worship does not tell us to pray in a certain direction (first towards jerusalem) and then change his mind to (mecca)

the god i worship does not tell me to go on a hajj

the god i worship does not put a tax on unbelievers such as jizya

the god i worship lives inside of me and has a relationship with me through love and acceptence

my god's word never dies....but is translated in each language - throughout time...so that all will have an opportunity to share in his undying love without robotically chanting prayers and verses in a foreign tongue (arabic) - and has historicity of the crucifixion from non-christian sources on his side to testify to his cricifuxion

my god is in eternal relationship with himeself and that relationship with himself is reflected in the relationship with humans on earth

by god sent his son - of the same being...the same divine nature - eternal - surpassing time - humbled - servant hearted - and SINLESS!!! to be the sacrifice for me - a sinner - sickened with sin and eternally condemned - but My god showed how much he loved me by becomming that ultimate sacrifice...

my god did not look at his son dying on the cross as utter humiliation...nonesense...he looked at is has a necessary thing...even the christ new of what he did in your enjeels that you claim that were corrupted but your very quran tells the muslim to seek counsel in the very same enjeels that you claim are corrupted.

my god no longer tells us that we need to sacrifice a perfect lamb without defect...because he himself...the perfect lamb - without defect did it for himself out of love...

that is my God...the God of love...he even calls himself love and has given it to me and i accepted it through my God's holy spirit...

the god i worship just doesnt have the "quality of love"

BUT....

the god i worship IS love

blessings to you and yours in the name of Christ my lord, my God - the great I AM the God of all....every tongue....every nation...every time .... eternity

my brother....out of love i must ask you...in the very same injeels...of any time...even the original manuscripts THOUSANDS of years old...Christ my GOD called himself "I AM" and was accused of blasphamie...the very same enjeels your prophet muhamed told you that was from God - why do you deny that christ called himself the same God that moses encountered with the burning bush ?

 

tawhid!



Edited by tawhid
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tawhid
 
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Quote tawhid Replybullet Posted: 11 April 2005 at 2:13am

sorry double post



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tawhid
 
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Quote tawhid Replybullet Posted: 11 April 2005 at 2:23am

sorry double post



Edited by tawhid
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IslamicGirl
 
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Quote IslamicGirl Replybullet Posted: 11 April 2005 at 2:29am

source (http://www.islamicity.com/QuranSearch/):

19:67 But does not man call to mind that We created him before out of nothing?

This is NOT a contradiction, how I interpret it is, 'Before' meaning before the earth came about, before Allah created the earth.

We as Muslims are not suppose to argue points we do not understand with the Holy Qu'ran, if we want to understand it, go and research, if not... hold our tongues at peace and accept it.

Only the Lord Almighty knows best. 

*Islamic Girl*
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defenders
 
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Quote defenders Replybullet Posted: 11 April 2005 at 9:23am

Assalammu'alaikum

If you learn carefully about the claim of contradiction inside Al-Qur'an, you will find that people who created DO NOT CARE about the CONTEXT of the VERSES. They are LACK of knowledge about the verses and the HISTORY of the VERSES. Worst, they don't know much about ISLAM.

Mr Tawhid is one of them. Since Mr Tawhid open this case? he will be responsible to response the refutation objectively.

I will start one by one, and challenge him to respond it.

Start from the claim no.1

Point 1: 96:2

PICKTHAL: Createth man from a clot.
SHAKIR: He created man from a clot.

The Information about human Human Creation is spread all over Al-Qur'an. If you read the verses carefully, you will find the PHASES of CREATION informed. In the early phase, you will find the words like CLAY or DUST. There is a phase told when you are in your mother's WOMB. In this phase, you'll find the process of human creation start from the drop of sperm, to clot, and so on.

Surah 96:2, is telling the process of human creation inside the mother's womb, and so  16:4.

Read Al-Mu'minun: 12-14:
"Verily We created man from a product of wet earth. Then placed him as a drop (of seed) in a safe lodging; Then fashioned We the drop a clot, then fashioned We the clot a little lump, then fashioned We the little lump bones, then clothed the bones with flesh, and then produced it another creation. So blessed be Allah, the Best of Creators!"

So, surah 96:2 and 16:4 found NO CONTRADICTION, because SPERM DROP and CLOT are one chain of process.

Surah 15:26 and  3:59 nothing to do with surah 96:2 and 16:4 which is talking about the process inside the womb. This 2 surahs are about the EARLY creation which is not only about human but also JINN. Please read the context of the verse.

Surah 15:
26:
We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape;
27: And the Jinn race, We had created before, from the fire of a scorching wind.
28: Behold! thy Lord said to the angels: "I am about to create man, from sounding clay from mud moulded into shape;

So, the creation of human in these surahs, got nothing to do with mother's womb stages. This is about the CREATION of the FIRST HUMAN.

What about DUST and CLAY?

Handling this issue in a more elaborate manner, here are the words of the late Sheikh Muhammad Mutwalli Ash-Sha`rawi, a prominent Muslim scholar and exegete:

"If we take dust and add water to it, it will be mud. If it is left for some time, it will turn into clay. These are simply the stages of the creation of man. Man thus comes from dust, turned into clay after the addition of water. If we scrutinize this issue, we will find out that man, in his daily life, needs earth and depends on it in so many aspects. It is this earthy soil where we grow the plants upon which we live. Thus, preserving the materials of man depends on the source from which these materials are created

Read surah: As-Sajdah: 7-9
"He began the creation of man from dust. Then He made his progeny of an extract of water held in light esteem. Then He made him complete and breathed into him of His spirit and made for you ears and eyes and heart."

Conclution:  There are no contradiction. All the verses they refer are talking about THE PROCESS of STAGES. This is a prove that they merely PICKING the verses and DO NOT CARE about the context of the verses themselves.

Read more about HUMAN CREATION in Qur'an

Embryology and human creation between Quran and science
Science leads to Islam
Embryology in the Noble Quran.
Harun Yahya .NET - The Miracle Of Human Creation

Wasalamu'alaikum

Defenders

http://www.islamdefenders.com/911/Index_911.htm --No Muslims involved in 9-11 attacks.
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aisha
 
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Quote aisha Replybullet Posted: 11 April 2005 at 10:27am
salaam,mr tawid how can you believe the christian faith is the right way when the majority of the bible has been rewritten by mans hands,you only have to look how your  religin is now relax to homosexuals and womens clothing do you see a nun without her headscarf then why do christian women not follow this example?how many times do you hear christian men say `im a christian but i drink alchohol and eat pork.ALLAH(swt)sent the quran and its still pure and unchanged thats gods miricle to all man.walakum
aisha
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AhmadJoyia
 
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Quote AhmadJoyia Replybullet Posted: 11 April 2005 at 11:43am
Originally posted by tawhid

....the God that i worship is also ever - existing...stepped into the demensions of time - and died for our sins...

From where you got the notion that your God died of your sins. Secondly do you know the meanings of dieing? God is infinite, which god are you talking about, heretics?

Originally posted by tawhid

the God i worshiped is the great "i am" of the OT (exodus 3:14) and the new testiment [your injee] john 8:58

Probably you may need to paste complete para from john 8:50 to 58 and explain it in your literal understanding rather than proverbial understanding. Kindly refer to DavidC's remarks elsewhere also on this.

Originally posted by tawhid

...but has translated his word in ALL languages of everytonge...so all nations need NOT learn one language (arabic) in order to pray to him

Probably you might be kidding us. Since when did you come to know that he (your god) translated the bible from greek to other languages. I don't know if any other fellow christians also believe in this rubbish. heretics?

Originally posted by tawhid

.... - and has historicity of the crucifixion from non-christian sources on his side to testify to his cricifuxion ....

Which non-christian sources are you specifically referring to? Kindly let me know of them.

Originally posted by tawhid

my god is in eternal relationship with himeself and that relationship with himself is reflected in the relationship with humans on earth

....

I am confused about this part of your statement. Which kind of this relationship is? You mean three in one etc? Then how is it reflected in this relationship with humans on earth? Kindly elaborate.  

Originally posted by tawhid

by god sent his son - of the same being...the same divine nature - eternal - surpassing time - humbled - servant hearted - and SINLESS!!! to be the sacrifice for me - a sinner - sickened with sin and eternally condemned - but My god showed how much he loved me by becomming that ultimate sacrifice.......

Of course God has to be sinless; rather sin or sinless is meaningless with God's attributes. It is strange when you emphasize on this word. Which sin are you talking about for which your god became ultimate sacrifice? Is it the "original sin" that you are referring here? There is no word  "original sin" in the NT or OT, that I know of, then from where this came into christian theology? Probably, a later day development; as the bible was evovled same is this concept as well?

Originally posted by tawhid

my god did not look at his son dying on the cross as utter humiliation...nonesense...he looked at is has a necessary thing..........

Again your words remind me of "Dying son" of god. Hmm.... Then you say he saw it as a "necessary thing". Why necessary? Couldn't he forgive the sin by merely uttering "Be done" and everything should have taken care of automatically? Why you call it necessary thing?

Originally posted by tawhid

my god no longer tells us that we need to sacrifice a perfect lamb without defect...because he himself...the perfect lamb - without defect did it for himself out of love.............

But your bible NT does tell you what Jesus liked and what he disliked. Especially when he declared in Matt 7:23 "....I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!"

Originally posted by tawhid

my brother....out of love i must ask you...in the very same injeels...of any time...even the original manuscripts THOUSANDS of years old...Christ my GOD called himself "I AM" and was accused of blasphamie...the very same enjeels your prophet muhamed told you that was from God - why do you deny that christ called himself the same God that moses encountered with the burning bush ?.............

My brother, do you want us to close our mind even though you know fully that your present day bible is not the one our (both of us) God revealed it. You (only you Christians) lost it and now you accuse Quran to have spoken of it. Even a child (probably a Christian Child) knows that these gospels are according to Mark, Luke, Matthew and John. None of them named Jesus, at least. What are you talking about, if not heretics? However, I do respect them as they might contain some part of the true revelation from our God, but which word, which sentence: we can only speculate as it has been obliterated with the mythical stories contrived out of human minds around it. Lastly, I pick up on your last sentence, "...same God that moses encountered with the burning bush". What is the story behind? I don't know exact details but have heard many Christians refering it to. Can you get me to the source of this story? By the way, do we all now accept that our God is infinite? If yes, only then we shall be able to filter out most of heresy from the Bible, and may be able to look for original message more objectively. Cheers!

 



Edited by AhmadJoyia
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