Active TopicsActive Topics  Display List of Forum MembersMemberlist  CalendarCalendar  Search The ForumSearch  HelpHelp
  RegisterRegister  LoginLogin  Old ForumOld Forum  Twitter  Facebook
Advertisement:
         

Interfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Interfaith Dialogue
Message Icon Topic: contradictions in the "holy" quran? Post Reply Post New Topic
Page  of 3 Next >>
Author Message
tawhid
 
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: 28 March 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 62
Quote tawhid Replybullet Topic: contradictions in the "holy" quran?
    Posted: 05 April 2005 at 9:36pm

both christians and muslims: before you post...read the whole thing!  do not just browse and ASSume what will be said...these are serious claims and ones that to my knowledge (limited, sinful knowledge) has never been answered by any muslim even close enough to be satisfactory...neither ahmed deedat, bucaile or even badalwi  

and when you do rebuttle...the LAST thing you need to do is to say "but...but the bible is full of contradictions was well!"  please...spare yourself...that is not the topic....if you refute the claim that the quran is contradictory with a claim that the bible is contradictory...you not only lost your chance of proving the the quran is truly 'holy" but also you have not answerd the questions posed by this thread...so in other words...do not answer these obvious contradictions with biblical contradictions..because that will not answer these questions of the validity of the koran....sukran wa saalam

by the way...thist post has just barely touched the top of my objections of islam as a religion that has been around forever. wich i staunchly and humbly disbelieve ... blessings to you and yours!

compiled by carm (christian apologetic & research ministry)

comments encouraged!

[edited]

Contradictions in the Qur'an


     The Qur'an states that it is a perfect book preserved on tablets in heaven (Surah 85:21-22).  If the Qur'an is a perfect book from Allah, then there shouldn't be any contradictions in it.  Of course, the Muslims will deny any contradictions exist in the Qur'an, but they do.  Some of the contradictions below could be debated, but some of them are clearly contradictions.  
     A contradiction occurs when one statement on a subject excludes the possibility of another.  The first one here is a good example.  In Surah 19:67, it states that man was created out of nothing.  In 15:26, man is created from clay.  Since clay is something, we have a contradiction since "nothing" excludes the possibility of "clay."  Both cannot be true.
     All quotes from the Qur'an, unless otherwise specified, are from Yusuf Ali and can be found at the
Qur'an online.

  1.  What was man created from, blood, clay, dust, or nothing?
    1. "Created man, out of a (mere) clot of congealed blood," (96:2).
    2. "We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape, (15:26).
    3. "The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was," (3:59).
    4. "But does not man call to mind that We created him before out of nothing?" (19:67, Yusuf Ali). Also, 52:35).
    5. "He has created man from a sperm-drop; and behold this same (man) becomes an open disputer! (16:4).
  2. Is there or is there not compulsion in religion according to the Qur'an? 
    1. "Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things," (2:256).
    2. "And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger, to the people (assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage,- that Allah and His Messenger dissolve (treaty) obligations with the Pagans. If then, ye repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away, know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith," (9:3).
    3. "But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful," (9:5).
    4. Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued," (9:29).
  3. The first Muslim was Muhammad?  Abraham?  Jacob? Moses?
    1. "And I [Muhammad] am commanded to be the first of those who bow to Allah in Islam," (39:12).
    2. "When Moses came to the place appointed by Us, and his Lord addressed him, He said: "O my Lord! show (Thyself) to me, that I may look upon thee." Allah said: "By no means canst thou see Me (direct); But look upon the mount; if it abide in its place, then shalt thou see Me." When his Lord manifested His glory on the Mount, He made it as dust. And Moses fell down in a swoon. When he recovered his senses he said: "Glory be to Thee! to Thee I turn in repentance, and I am the first to believe." (7:143).
    3. "And this was the legacy that Abraham left to his sons, and so did Jacob; "Oh my sons! Allah hath chosen the Faith for you; then die not except in the Faith of Islam," (2:132).
  4. Does Allah forgive or not forgive those who worship false gods? 
    1. Allah forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with Allah is to devise a sin Most heinous indeed," (4:48).  Also 4:116
    2. The people of the Book ask thee to cause a book to descend to them from heaven: Indeed they asked Moses for an even greater (miracle), for they said: "Show us Allah in public," but they were dazed for their presumption, with thunder and lightning. Yet they worshipped the calf even after clear signs had come to them; even so we forgave them; and gave Moses manifest proofs of authority," (4:153).
  5. Are Allah's decrees changed or not?
    1. "Rejected were the messengers before thee: with patience and constancy they bore their rejection and their wrongs, until Our aid did reach them: there is none that can alter the words (and decrees) of Allah. Already hast thou received some account of those messengers," (6:34).
    2. "The word of thy Lord doth find its fulfillment in truth and in justice: None can change His words: for He is the one who heareth and knoweth all, (6:115).
    3. None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?" (2:106).
    4. When We substitute one revelation for another,- and Allah knows best what He reveals (in stages),- they say, "Thou art but a forger": but most of them understand not," (16:101).
  6. Was Pharaoh killed or not killed by drowning? 
    1. "We took the Children of Israel across the sea: Pharaoh and his hosts followed them in insolence and spite. At length, when overwhelmed with the flood, he said: "I believe that there is no god except Him Whom the Children of Israel believe in: I am of those who submit (to Allah in Islam). (It was said to him): "Ah now!- But a little while before, wast thou in rebellion!- and thou didst mischief (and violence)!  This day shall We save thee in the body, that thou mayest be a sign to those who come after thee! but verily, many among mankind are heedless of Our Signs!" (10:90-92).
    2. Moses said, "Thou knowest well that these things have been sent down by none but the Lord of the heavens and the earth as eye-opening evidence: and I consider thee indeed, O Pharaoh, to be one doomed to destruction!"  So he resolved to remove them from the face of the earth: but We did drown him and all who were with him," (17:102-103).
  7. Is wine consumption good or bad? 
    1. O ye who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, (dedication of) stones, and (divination by) arrows, are an abomination,- of Satan's handwork: eschew such (abomination), that ye may prosper," (5:90).
    2. (Here is) a Parable of the Garden which the righteous are promised: in it are rivers of water incorruptible; rivers of milk of which the taste never changes; rivers of wine, a joy to those who drink; and rivers of honey pure and clear. In it there are for them all kinds of fruits; and Grace from their Lord. (Can those in such Bliss) be compared to such as shall dwell for ever in the Fire, and be given, to drink, boiling water, so that it cuts up their bowels (to pieces)?" (47:15).
    3. Truly the Righteous will be in Bliss: On Thrones (of Dignity) will they command a sight (of all things): Thou wilt recognize in their faces the beaming brightness of Bliss. Their thirst will be slaked with Pure Wine sealed," (83:22-25).


Edited by MOCKBA
IP IP Logged
MOCKBA
 
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 27 September 2000
Location: Malaysia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1410
Quote MOCKBA Replybullet Posted: 06 April 2005 at 2:26am

To answer the above "contradictions" in detail and other misunderstandings that may arise out of blindness, i would personally recommend Ulum al Qur'an by Ahmad von Denffer, these are basics widely available in English.

This recommendation applies to those sincerely seeking understanding as for those who have other intentions - blind deaf and dumb that will never return... nor will they be satisfied

MOCKBA 

IP IP Logged
DavidC
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 September 2001
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2211
Quote DavidC Replybullet Posted: 06 April 2005 at 7:54am
Perhaps perfection depends upon how one uses the Qu'ran. A hammer is
a perfect tool for driving nails, but you will be dissapointed if you try to
crosscut a board with it.

Using the Qu'ran to prove its' own authenticity seems backward to me. It
seems a guide to draw one closer to God not to bring God down to
human level.

DavidC
IP IP Logged
blond
 
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 30 March 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 218
Quote blond Replybullet Posted: 06 April 2005 at 8:33am
  1.  What was man created from, blood, clay, dust, or nothing?

I believe ashes to ashes, dust to dust is your term. It represents man's physical beginning and end. It also represents the metaphysical state of non-productivity in which which a whole people could be termed as nothing and renamed after the state of death, i.e. "negro" (necro). 

  1. Is there or is there not compulsion in religion according to the Qur'an? 

A person can take it or leave it. But ,when Allah decides to dole out justice for man's sins, there is no intercesion on his behalf.

  1. The first Muslim was Muhammad?  Abraham?  Jacob? Moses?

Allah submits to the Law that He set up for His own creation. Allah is the Ultimate Example for us. Allah is the first Muslim.

  1. Does Allah forgive or not forgive those who worship false gods? 

A Prophet IS the physical manifestation of Mercy in the midst of the people. Allah will listen to his Prophet if the Prophet begs for Allah's mercy on those who deserve death. However, there is an end to mercy as well, it is called Justice.

  1. Are Allah's decrees changed or not?

Allah's way never changes. There is the temporal law, and there is the Eternal law. When the temporal is no longer necessary, it is abrogated. But the Eternal law never changes.

  1. Was Pharaoh killed or not killed by drowning? 

Pharoah's body was perserved (mummified) after his death. I beleive this is the meaning you seek.

  1. Is wine consumption good or bad? 

I noticed tht your "interpretations" left out that the wine does not intoxicate the drinker. That is devilishment on your behalf.

2:69. They said: Call on thy Lord for our sake to make it clear to us what her colour is. (Moses) said: He says, she is a yellow cow; her colour is intensely yellow delighting the beholders.

70. They said: Call on thy Lord for our sake to make it clear to us what she is, for surely to us the cows are all alike, and if Allah please we shall surely be guided aright.

71. (Moses) said: He says: She is a cow not made submissive to plough the land, nor does she water the tilth, sound, without a blemish in her. They said: Now thou hast brought the truth. So they slaughtered her, though they had not the mind to do (it).

IP IP Logged
tawhid
 
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: 28 March 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 62
Quote tawhid Replybullet Posted: 06 April 2005 at 5:23pm

please...i need more input from muslims on this matter

 

 

IP IP Logged
ummziba
Female  Islam
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 March 2005
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1158
Quote ummziba Replybullet Posted: 07 April 2005 at 4:50am

Tawhid,

You might find some answers you are looking for at this web site:

http://www.islaminfo.com

When you get there, click on "Quran" in the left hand column.  This will bring up many articles that you may find interesting.  I hope this is helpful.

Peace, ummziba.

Sticks and stones may break my bones, but your words...they break my soul ~
IP IP Logged
AhmadJoyia
 
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 20 March 2005
Location: Pakistan
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1161
Quote AhmadJoyia Replybullet Posted: 08 April 2005 at 3:52pm

Dear Tawhid,

I think if you are really serious about knowing the answer, the two websites referred above would be suffient to answer more than what you have asked. However, if you like our individual comments, then I would suggest that you breakdown your list topic wise one by one. Posting them here like a long list would not give due attention to anyone topic. So when you ask for more response, at least one should be able to know which particular topic needs more attention. Hope to see a good discussion on these points. Cheers!

IP IP Logged
tawhid
 
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: 28 March 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 62
Quote tawhid Replybullet Posted: 08 April 2005 at 3:54pm
Originally posted by AhmadJoyia

Dear Tawhid,

I think if you are really serious about knowing the answer, the two websites referred above would be suffient to answer more than what you have asked. However, if you like our individual comments, then I would suggest that you breakdown your list topic wise one by one. Posting them here like a long list would not give due attention to anyone topic. So when you ask for more response, at least one should be able to know which particular topic needs more attention. Hope to see a good discussion on these points. Cheers!

blessings to you my friend in the name of my lord the christ!

due noted...

wa salam

tawhid

IP IP Logged
Page  of 3 Next >>
Post Reply Post New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Disclaimer:
The opinions expressed herein contain positions and viewpoints that are not necessarily those of IslamiCity. This forum is offered to stimulate dialogue and discussion in our continuing mission of being an educational organization.
If there is any issue with any of the postings please email to icforum at islamicity.com or if you are a forum's member you can use the report button.

Note: The 99 names of Allah avatars are courtesy of www.arthafez.com

Advertisement:



Sponsored by:
Islamicity Membership Program:
IslamiCity Donation Program  http://www.islamicity.com/Donate
IslamiCity Arabic eLearning http://www.islamiCity.com/ArabAcademy
Complete Domain & Hosting Solutions www.icDomain.com
Home for Muslim Tunes www.icTunes.com
Islamic Video Collections www.islamiTV.com
IslamiCity Marriage Site www.icMarriage.com