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tawhid
Groupie
Joined: 28 March 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 62 |
![]() Posted: 11 April 2005 at 2:33pm |
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thank you all for raising objections to my posts....after reading them...you have put forth some challenging questions...but questions that can and will be answered with the grace and wisdom of my God - and questions that has/and will strengthen my faith as a christian. however...due to the heavy matter at hand...it will take me at least an hour to truly study the brevity of your claims of gospel corruptions (which if they were...would deem god unable to keep his word - and therefore lacks all power) - however - the answers that i will give in due time...will not only rebuttle of bible corruptions but it will also question the holy quran as well as it already has...simple point - if there are no true enjeels - then god did not protect his word...and the muslim simply makes god out to be weak - time is not on my side now...[however] this does not mean that these questions will not be answered....but in the time i do have...answer me this.... the bible has been corrupted...a muslim says "yes".... i ask...when? was it after the quran was formulated - AFTER your prophet said that the enjeels were from God? or before? by who? when? how can God's enjeels be corrupted if they were from God almighty? how can a simple human corrupt the divine word of God? also...i challenge you...ANY MUSLIM...from badawi to deedat to the simple laymen....find absolutely any gospel...of any era...of absolutely any time in the history of creation...that jesus called himself something other than " I am" in your enjeel john 8:58 - and IN CONTEXT - from the greek translation, to king james, to new king james, to american standard, to NIV to absolutely EVERY SINGLE BIBLE KNOWN TO MAN....christ called himself " I AM" and it simply cant be refuted... the burden now is not only on me...but on you to muslim. in respect...but my faith in the Christ encouraged through this dialogue... tawhid
Edited by tawhid |
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semar
Senior Member
Senior Member Joined: 11 March 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1234 |
![]() Posted: 11 April 2005 at 4:50pm |
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Originally posted by tawhid
the bible has been corrupted...a muslim says "yes".... i ask...when? was it after the quran was formulated - AFTER your prophet said that the enjeels were from God? or before? by who? when? how can God's enjeels be corrupted if they were from God almighty? how can a simple human corrupt the divine word of God? You have not answered AhmedJoiya's question yet. Anyway I'll answer some of your simple questions. No written injeel is free corruption. All had been corrupted since the injeel was written. Because the authors were not genuine peoples who love and fear God, some even Prophet Jesus's enemy. Of course before the quran was formulated. The quran's content was not based from any books or any human writing but came from God directly. There is no God's promise to maintain/protect the Injeel, because God had an intention to release the new version of injeel, that is Quran. Edited by semar |
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Salam/Peace,
Semar The Prophet said: "Do not eat before you are hungry, and stop eating before you are full" "1/3 of your stomach for food 1/3 for water, 1/3 for air" |
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defenders
Newbie
Joined: 05 April 2005 Location: Bahrain Online Status: Offline Posts: 11 |
![]() Posted: 12 April 2005 at 3:04am |
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Dear Tawhid. Let us back to the discussion about contradiction. If you can't response my refutation on your copy and paste contradiction, that's mean you are fail at least one point about human creation. You have to admit that point 1. is not a contradiction. After you response, I'll be ready for other claims inshaALLAH. I'll wait. Salaam Defenders Edited by defenders |
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http://www.islamdefenders.com/911/Index_911.htm --No Muslims involved in 9-11 attacks.
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Shams Zaman
Male Islam Senior Member
Joined: 20 March 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 135 |
![]() Posted: 13 April 2005 at 5:28am |
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The Quran is the book of Wisdom and anyone who has no wisdom and who can't think he can only get the instructions and guidence. But a man with knowledge and wisdom will be boggled with its depth and meaning. Secondly Arabic is a very rather most powerful terrestial language and no translation can match of its word which carry extremely vast and deep meanings. That is the reason that a French Doctor Dr. Mauries Bokyle once wrote the his famous and best selling book "The Quran Bible and Science" he first learned Arabic for almost 13 years and then claimed that Quran does not even contain a single verse which contradicts the modren science. He wrote this book as a christian and I don't know whether he is still a Christian or not. “(It is) a Book We have revealed to you is full of blessing that they may ponder over its revelations, and that those endowed with wisdom may seek advice”.38:29 “These are verses of the Book of Wisdom” 31:2 “Swearing by the Quran full of wisdom” 36:2 1. What was man created from, blood, clay, dust, or nothing? If I say tea is prepared of water. Then I say tea is prepared from milk and then I say that tea is prepared from the tea leaves which statement is wrong? Of course all are true. “Man was created from nothing”. This is to refute the “The body of man was created from clay”. Dust is not right because clay is actually dust mixed with water. So Adam was the first creation from clay and then God spelled his soul in his body and he became human. “Man was created from blood is not correct”. The Arabic word is “ALAKA” “clot like substance resembling leech” and we don’t have appropriate word for Alaka so we use the word clot of blood which is nearest. You can refer to Prof Keithal Moore a Thai Prof of embryology who says “How could Muhammad seen this in the womb and its only in 1970,s that we exactly discovered the same.” He admits that only a divine revelation can say this. So once man is in mother’s womb he is created or developed from a zygote which resembles a leech which can be confirmed from medical books. 2. Is there or is there not compulsion in religion according to the Qur'an? There is no compulsion in religion. The sura which you have mentioned is 9 known as Tooba or Repentance. The first few verses were revealed once the non Muslim tribes had broken down the pact with Muslims of Medina. So it was a announcement of war for those who had broken the pact. Today this also holds good for all those who will not honour the pact and not for all non-Muslims. The exception can be seen in the same Sura in verse 6, “And if one of the idolaters seek protection from you, grant him protection till he hears the word of Allah, then escort him to a place of safety; this is because they are a people who do not know”. So these verses can not generally hold good for all non muslims but for only those who had broken a pact or have intentionally violated it. And anyone who is party to it and seeks for protection his treatment is given in the verse 6 of the same Sura. And nowhere Quran says convert someone forcibly. 3. The first Muslim was Muhammad? Abraham? Jacob? Moses? Every Prophet is supposed to be the first Muslim in his nation. Adam was first Muslim as a Human, Abraham was the first Muslim in his nation, Moses in his and Muhammad was in his nation that is the Arabs initially and the rest of the world later. Once the last priest believing in Oneness of God died in 4. Does Allah forgive or not forgive those who worship false gods? Allah does not forgive the sin of associating partners with Him until and unless one seeks for forgiveness and mercy. You have to follow the complete incident of Moses coming back from the Sena mount. See 5. Are Allah's decrees changed or not? Allah’s decrees never contradicts and no one can alter Allah’s commands except for Him alone. Like once we seeks for repentance or forgiveness Allah changes his decree from punishment to forgiveness. Secondly none of the decree given in Quran which was later altered contradicts. Like once Allah says don’t offer prayers once you are intoxicated, and later we are told that wine is forbidden and is Satanic. Does it contradict? The first order is still valid. 6. Was Pharaoh killed or not killed by drowning? Indeed Pharoah was drowned with all his men narrated at numerous places in Quran. While his Mummy or body was made example and was discovered in the early 20th century. Probably in 1917 and still lies preserved in Egyptian museum in And now its not possible to find the Pharaoh who had drowned and eaten by fish etc. But the Prophecy came true and his body was found with a thick salt layer on it still lying preserved. 7. Is wine consumption good or bad? The wine is not only bad for humans but is also haram (forbidden). But it does contain a benefit. It gives you pleasure and a false sense of security and this is the reason that once a man in deep despair drinks it he forgets his miseries. So expect for these two benefits it has all the evil properties. So both were described in Quran. Regarding the other Questions, I would ask you some simple questions: 1. Once you say, the God i worship never reveals himself in one "pure" language...but has translated his word in ALL languages of everytonge...so all nations need NOT learn one language (arabic) in order to pray to him. Do want to say that infact God revealed Bible in all these different languages? Well if that is what you say you are an ignorant Christian who does not know in which language it was revealed. It was revealed in Hebrew and some say in Greek. Regarding its translations the Quran has been translated in same number of languages as of Bible. But unfortunately no where we find the original scripture of Bible and God knows what all non sense has been included in Bible which is even not appropriate to quote here. “Bast--d” This word or abuse occurs in the Bible THREE times DEUTERONOMY 23:2, ZECHARIAH 9:6 and HEBREWS 12:8. Incest (s-x-al relationship between close relations like brother-sisters, father-daughter etc) GENESIS 19:33-35 (Prophet Lot and his daughters). Can you believe that well if you do shame on you. Jacob’s son (Reuben) with his step mother GENESIS 35:22. And between brother and sister SAMUEL-2, 13 : 5-14. What is this nonsense? 2. And once you say that the god i worship does not tell us to pray in a certain direction (first towards 3. So once you say that, the god i worship does not put a tax on unbelievers such as Jazya. This is misconception that only non- Muslims are to pay. Muslims are supposed to pay Zakat and non Muslims the jazya. Don’t you pay tax in 4. Salat (prayers), Fasting etc are the rituals which were made must for every nation and society by God, whether be Jews, Christians or any other. So if you don’t perform them you are free to do that but you will be held answerable in the hereafter. However Hajj was mandatory for the last Muslim nation. 5. Nowhere the Quran or Hadith tells us to seek guidance from Anjeel or Torah. It tells that these were the revelations from God and their people on whom they were sent altered it not accidentally but intentionally and for a very small benefit but ultimately will be rewarded in eternal hell. “Do you then hope that they would believe in you, and a party from among them indeed used to hear the Word of Allah, then altered it after they had understood it, and they know (this) o And when they meet those who believe they say: We believe, and when they are alone one with another they say: Do you talk to them of what Allah has disclosed to you that they may contend with you by this before your Lord? Do you not then understand? o Do they not know that Allah knows what they keep secret and what they make known? o And there are among them illiterates who know not the Book but only lies, and they do but conjecture o Woe, then, to those who write the book with their hands and then say: This is from Allah, so that they may take for it a small price; therefore woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn o”(Sura Bakra-2, verse 75-79). Shams Zaman smszmn72@yahoo.com |
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smszmn72@yahoo.cm
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defenders
Newbie
Joined: 05 April 2005 Location: Bahrain Online Status: Offline Posts: 11 |
![]() Posted: 13 April 2005 at 7:39am |
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Originally posted by Shams Zaman
The Quran is the book of Wisdom and anyone who has no wisdom and who can't think he can only get the instructions and guidence. But a man with knowledge and wisdom will be boggled with its depth and meaning. Secondly Arabic is a very rather most powerful terrestial language and no translation can match of its word which carry extremely vast and deep meanings. That is the reason that a French Doctor Dr. Mauries Bokyle once wrote the his famous and best selling book "The Quran Bible and Science" he first learned Arabic for almost 13 years and then claimed that Quran does not even contain a single verse which contradicts the modren science. He wrote this book as a christian and I don't know whether he is still a Christian or not. “(It is) a Book We have revealed to you is full of blessing that they may ponder over its revelations, and that those endowed with wisdom may seek advice”.38:29 “These are verses of the Book of Wisdom” 31:2 “Swearing by the Quran full of wisdom” 36:2 1. What was man created from, blood, clay, dust, or nothing? If I say tea is prepared of water. Then I say tea is prepared from milk and then I say that tea is prepared from the tea leaves which statement is wrong? Of course all are true. “Man was created from nothing”. This is to refute the “The body of man was created from clay”. Dust is not right because clay is actually dust mixed with water. So Adam was the first creation from clay and then God spelled his soul in his body and he became human. “Man was created from blood is not correct”. The Arabic word is “ALAKA” “clot like substance resembling leech” and we don’t have appropriate word for Alaka so we use the word clot of blood which is nearest. You can refer to Prof Keithal Moore a Thai Prof of embryology who says “How could Muhammad seen this in the womb and its only in 1970,s that we exactly discovered the same.” He admits that only a divine revelation can say this. So once man is in mother’s womb he is created or developed from a zygote which resembles a leech which can be confirmed from medical books. 2. Is there or is there not compulsion in religion according to the Qur'an? There is no compulsion in religion. The sura which you have mentioned is 9 known as Tooba or Repentance. The first few verses were revealed once the non Muslim tribes had broken down the pact with Muslims of Medina. So it was a announcement of war for those who had broken the pact. Today this also holds good for all those who will not honour the pact and not for all non-Muslims. The exception can be seen in the same Sura in verse 6, “And if one of the idolaters seek protection from you, grant him protection till he hears the word of Allah, then escort him to a place of safety; this is because they are a people who do not know”. So these verses can not generally hold good for all non muslims but for only those who had broken a pact or have intentionally violated it. And anyone who is party to it and seeks for protection his treatment is given in the verse 6 of the same Sura. And nowhere Quran says convert someone forcibly. 3. The first Muslim was Muhammad? Abraham? Jacob? Moses? Every Prophet is supposed to be the first Muslim in his nation. Adam was first Muslim as a Human, Abraham was the first Muslim in his nation, Moses in his and Muhammad was in his nation that is the Arabs initially and the rest of the world later. Once the last priest believing in Oneness of God died in 4. Does Allah forgive or not forgive those who worship false gods? Allah does not forgive the sin of associating partners with Him until and unless one seeks for forgiveness and mercy. You have to follow the complete incident of Moses coming back from the Sena mount. See 5. Are Allah's decrees changed or not? Allah’s decrees never contradicts and no one can alter Allah’s commands except for Him alone. Like once we seeks for repentance or forgiveness Allah changes his decree from punishment to forgiveness. Secondly none of the decree given in Quran which was later altered contradicts. Like once Allah says don’t offer prayers once you are intoxicated, and later we are told that wine is forbidden and is Satanic. Does it contradict? The first order is still valid. 6. Was Pharaoh killed or not killed by drowning? Indeed Pharoah was drowned with all his men narrated at numerous places in Quran. While his Mummy or body was made example and was discovered in the early 20th century. Probably in 1917 and still lies preserved in Egyptian museum in And now its not possible to find the Pharaoh who had drowned and eaten by fish etc. But the Prophecy came true and his body was found with a thick salt layer on it still lying preserved. 7. Is wine consumption good or bad? The wine is not only bad for humans but is also haram (forbidden). But it does contain a benefit. It gives you pleasure and a false sense of security and this is the reason that once a man in deep despair drinks it he forgets his miseries. So expect for these two benefits it has all the evil properties. So both were described in Quran. Regarding the other Questions, I would ask you some simple questions: 1. Once you say, the God i worship never reveals himself in one "pure" language...but has translated his word in ALL languages of everytonge...so all nations need NOT learn one language (arabic) in order to pray to him. Do want to say that infact God revealed Bible in all these different languages? Well if that is what you say you are an ignorant Christian who does not know in which language it was revealed. It was revealed in Hebrew and some say in Greek. Regarding its translations the Quran has been translated in same number of languages as of Bible. But unfortunately no where we find the original scripture of Bible and God knows what all non sense has been included in Bible which is even not appropriate to quote here. “Bast--d” This word or abuse occurs in the Bible THREE times DEUTERONOMY 23:2, ZECHARIAH 9:6 and HEBREWS 12:8. Incest (s-x-al relationship between close relations like brother-sisters, father-daughter etc) GENESIS 19:33-35 (Prophet Lot and his daughters). Can you believe that well if you do shame on you. Jacob’s son (Reuben) with his step mother GENESIS 35:22. And between brother and sister SAMUEL-2, 13 : 5-14. What is this nonsense? 2. And once you say that the god i worship does not tell us to pray in a certain direction (first towards 3. So once you say that, the god i worship does not put a tax on unbelievers such as Jazya. This is misconception that only non- Muslims are to pay. Muslims are supposed to pay Zakat and non Muslims the jazya. Don’t you pay tax in 4. Salat (prayers), Fasting etc are the rituals which were made must for every nation and society by God, whether be Jews, Christians or any other. So if you don’t perform them you are free to do that but you will be held answerable in the hereafter. However Hajj was mandatory for the last Muslim nation. 5. Nowhere the Quran or Hadith tells us to seek guidance from Anjeel or Torah. It tells that these were the revelations from God and their people on whom they were sent altered it not accidentally but intentionally and for a very small benefit but ultimately will be rewarded in eternal hell. “Do you then hope that they would believe in you, and a party from among them indeed used to hear the Word of Allah, then altered it after they had understood it, and they know (this) o And when they meet those who believe they say: We believe, and when they are alone one with another they say: Do you talk to them of what Allah has disclosed to you that they may contend with you by this before your Lord? Do you not then understand? o Do they not know that Allah knows what they keep secret and what they make known? o And there are among them illiterates who know not the Book but only lies, and they do but conjecture o Woe, then, to those who write the book with their hands and then say: This is from Allah, so that they may take for it a small price; therefore woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn o”(Sura Bakra-2, verse 75-79). Shams Zaman smszmn72@yahoo.com Assalammu'alaikum br Shams Zaman. Good work. Mostly, people who refer the qur'an contradiction will never comeback after Muslims fight back. So far not even a single word coming from mr tawhid. Where is he? wassalammu'alaikum Defenders
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http://www.islamdefenders.com/911/Index_911.htm --No Muslims involved in 9-11 attacks.
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