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Yusuf.

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Posted: 02 April 2005 at 5:49pm

Originally posted by ChrisNo1

I think it is fair. If I was to write a newspaper or a story book in English, I am sure it could be translated into arabic and vice versa. I understand that both languages are completely different but the message and point of the story or article would be understood if translated!

If this was an impossible concept then how do people translate the Qu'ran into English! I have read the Qu'ran in English!

With all due respect, how many languages do you speak?

As for "translations" of the Holy Qur'an, they are generally referred to as "interpretations." If you compare them, you can see that there is no complete agreement on even the most fundamental questions. For example, the Arabic term "taqwa," which is often translated as "fear," but the word is derived from "waqaa," which means "to preserve." A "waaqii" is a person who is safe. "taqwa" is derived by the prefixation of "'at," which is a medio-reflexive prefix. Thus, "taqwa" is the state of security attained through one's preservation of something. In the Holy Qur'an, this is further defined by context to mean "the attaining of security by preserving one's awareness of Allah, subhanahu wa ta'ala." What English word means that?

Yusuf

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Yusuf.

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Posted: 02 April 2005 at 5:50pm

Jazakallah, ukhti Nausheen, you said it much better than I could.

Yusuf

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Nausheen
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Posted: 02 April 2005 at 6:41pm

Auzubillahi minash shaitan ir rajeem,

Bismillah ir rahman ir rahim,

Assalamualaikum wa rahmatullah,

Originally posted by Yusuf.

Jazakallah, ukhti Nausheen, you said it much better than I could.

Wa iyakum, Yaakhi. I could not be better than you, as you know arabic.

I have the chance and honor to study some protions of the Quran from a knowledgeable scholar who is well versed in Arabic and tafsir Quran.

It is amazing how he spent hours to explain just the seven verses of surat al fatiha. After which he said, he could not do complete justice to the meanings of the surah. He gave us references that contain more than 200 pages of tafsir on these seven verses. Subhan allah!

When we read ppl wondering if a translation could be sufficient, the real thrist for knowledge is wanting.

May allah guide us all upright.

[31.27] And were every tree that is in the earth (made into) pens and the sea (to supply it with ink), with seven more seas to increase it, the words of Allah would not come to an end; surely Allah is Mighty, Wise.

Edited by Nausheen

Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena
wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.

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ChrisNo1

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Posted: 02 April 2005 at 6:46pm

It is obviously true that one cannot get a 'pure' translation but the message can still be clear. You talk about spiritual depth but that can still be obtained from translation. I do agree that some things wont translate just as well as the native tongue. But that is besides the point. One should not learn a language to understand the rules and stories of a universal religion (as islam claims). Understanding should be reached out to all people from all nations. Some people in this day of age can't afford to do languages courses because they don't even have enough money to eat!! If the Qu'ran claims a universal role then it can be universally translated because God himself inspired Mohammed to write the book. Learning Arabic should be a preference not an obligation.

You go on further to translate a word in Arabic and ask what English the english equivalant is? Well you gave a discription of what "taqwa" and other words say "There are no english words that can translate it" Nevertheless you was able to give me an discription in English of the words meaning, so i was able to get some idea.

You ask do I know any other languages!? lol Well unfortunately I Don't. Time and money are not on my side unfortunately but it is a great ambition of mine. I hope one day to learn Turkish and Arabic!

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Nausheen
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Posted: 02 April 2005 at 6:56pm

Auzubillahi minash shaitan ir rajeem,

Bismillah ir rahman ir rahim,

Originally posted by ChrisNo1

It is obviously true that one cannot get a 'pure' translation but the message can still be clear. You talk about spiritual depth but that can still be obtained from translation. I do agree that some things wont translate just as well as the native tongue. But that is besides the point. One should not learn a language to understand the rules and stories of a universal religion (as islam claims). Understanding should be reached out to all people from all nations. Some people in this day of age can't afford to do languages courses because they don't even have enough money to eat!! If the Qu'ran claims a universal role then it can be universally translated because God himself inspired Mohammed to write the book. Learning Arabic should be a preference not an obligation.

All your points were covered and explained in my post. I guess you missed the messege entirely. Go to page one of this thread and you will find it

Peace,

Nausheen

Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena
wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.

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Yusuf.

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Posted: 02 April 2005 at 7:21pm

Originally posted by ChrisNo1

You ask do I know any other languages!? lol Well unfortunately I Don't. Time and money are not on my side unfortunately but it is a great ambition of mine. I hope one day to learn Turkish and Arabic!

I love both those languages and wish you great success. Otherwise, I don't really dispute anything you're saying. I would not want to see any single language replace the many wonderful languages of the people of the earth.

Yusuf

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blond

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Posted: 04 April 2005 at 11:37am

Originally posted by ChrisNo1

Hello Everyone, peace be with your all or in arabic Salamailakum

Hello, I just wanted to know why 'arabic' is such an important element in islam. Arabic however is only a language. I am not saying its a bad language and that its not rich! Love, Peace, Submition can be expressed in all languages.

Mosques quote the Qu'ran in arabic, and say their prayers in Arabic. This is ofcourse understandable in the middle east were most people speak arabic.

When I went to Turkey the mosques said there prayers in 'Arabic' but most Turks I met didn't understand a thing except for a few words. That also extends to other muslim in non arabic-countries.

My girlfriend who is Turkish knows all the arabic prayers but doesn't have a clue what they mean (word for word). This means the prayer is void because the person saying the word feels nothing. If it was said in their own language then the prayer would allow that person to relate to it more.

Maybe I am arrogant and I'm missing something here. I understand that It's nice because Mohammed spoke the language and all the other prophets spoke semetic languages.

If anyone can explain please do?

According to what little I know, Arabic is the the Original language of Allah. It is the finest, most mathematically precise language. No mistakes can be claimed because the exact thought of Allah is given.

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ChrisNo1

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Posted: 04 April 2005 at 1:20pm

Maths can be performed procise in any language if I'm not mistaken. Programming languages used for huge mathematical functions are usually written in part - english!

If you are saying there are codes written within the writing in the Qu'ran then someone who knows arabic wouldn't be able to see or work out the Maths!

The languages of all the great prophets was not arabic, and one of the greatest 'Isa' was not arabic. Arabic was the chosen language because of Mohammed! If Mohammed lived in the Urkrain then Ukrainian would be the Chosen language for the Qu'ran.

If you say Arabic is the most finest language in the world then there would be some debate on that! I'm not saying It's a bad language, I think people outside of Islam wouldn't always agree.

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Author	Message
Yusuf. Senior Member Joined: 02 July 2001 Location: far from home Online Status: Offline Posts: 2385	Posted: 02 April 2005 at 5:49pm
	*Originally posted by ChrisNo1* I think it is fair. If I was to write a newspaper or a story book in English, I am sure it could be translated into arabic and vice versa. I understand that both languages are completely different but the message and point of the story or article would be understood if translated! If this was an impossible concept then how do people translate the Qu'ran into English! I have read the Qu'ran in English! With all due respect, how many languages do you speak? As for "translations" of the Holy Qur'an, they are generally referred to as "interpretations." If you compare them, you can see that there is no complete agreement on even the most fundamental questions. For example, the Arabic term "taqwa," which is often translated as "fear," but the word is derived from "waqaa," which means "to preserve." A "waaqii" is a person who is safe. "taqwa" is derived by the prefixation of "'at," which is a medio-reflexive prefix. Thus, "taqwa" is the state of security attained through one's preservation of something. In the Holy Qur'an, this is further defined by context to mean "the attaining of security by preserving one's awareness of Allah, subhanahu wa ta'ala." What English word means that?
	Yusuf
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Yusuf. Senior Member Joined: 02 July 2001 Location: far from home Online Status: Offline Posts: 2385	Posted: 02 April 2005 at 5:50pm
	Jazakallah, ukhti Nausheen, you said it much better than I could.
	Yusuf
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Nausheen Female Islam Senior Member Senior Member Joined: 10 January 2001 Location: Japan Online Status: Offline Posts: 4146	Posted: 02 April 2005 at 6:41pm
	Auzubillahi minash shaitan ir rajeem, Bismillah ir rahman ir rahim, Assalamualaikum wa rahmatullah, *Originally posted by Yusuf.* Jazakallah, ukhti Nausheen, you said it much better than I could. Wa iyakum, Yaakhi. I could not be better than you, as you know arabic. I have the chance and honor to study some protions of the Quran from a knowledgeable scholar who is well versed in Arabic and tafsir Quran. It is amazing how he spent hours to explain just the seven verses of surat al fatiha. After which he said, he could not do complete justice to the meanings of the surah. He gave us references that contain more than 200 pages of tafsir on these seven verses. Subhan allah! When we read ppl wondering if a translation could be sufficient, the real thrist for knowledge is wanting. May allah guide us all upright. [31.27] And were every tree that is in the earth (made into) pens and the sea (to supply it with ink), with seven more seas to increase it, the words of Allah would not come to an end; surely Allah is Mighty, Wise. Edited by Nausheen
	Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.
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ChrisNo1 Newbie Joined: 02 April 2005 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 19	Posted: 02 April 2005 at 6:46pm
	It is obviously true that one cannot get a 'pure' translation but the message can still be clear. You talk about spiritual depth but that can still be obtained from translation. I do agree that some things wont translate just as well as the native tongue. But that is besides the point. One should not learn a language to understand the rules and stories of a universal religion (as islam claims). Understanding should be reached out to all people from all nations. Some people in this day of age can't afford to do languages courses because they don't even have enough money to eat!! If the Qu'ran claims a universal role then it can be universally translated because God himself inspired Mohammed to write the book. Learning Arabic should be a preference not an obligation. You go on further to translate a word in Arabic and ask what English the english equivalant is? Well you gave a discription of what "taqwa" and other words say "There are no english words that can translate it" Nevertheless you was able to give me an discription in English of the words meaning, so i was able to get some idea. You ask do I know any other languages!? lol Well unfortunately I Don't. Time and money are not on my side unfortunately but it is a great ambition of mine. I hope one day to learn Turkish and Arabic!
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Nausheen Female Islam Senior Member Senior Member Joined: 10 January 2001 Location: Japan Online Status: Offline Posts: 4146	Posted: 02 April 2005 at 6:56pm
	Auzubillahi minash shaitan ir rajeem, Bismillah ir rahman ir rahim, *Originally posted by ChrisNo1* It is obviously true that one cannot get a 'pure' translation but the message can still be clear. You talk about spiritual depth but that can still be obtained from translation. I do agree that some things wont translate just as well as the native tongue. But that is besides the point. One should not learn a language to understand the rules and stories of a universal religion (as islam claims). Understanding should be reached out to all people from all nations. Some people in this day of age can't afford to do languages courses because they don't even have enough money to eat!! If the Qu'ran claims a universal role then it can be universally translated because God himself inspired Mohammed to write the book. Learning Arabic should be a preference not an obligation. All your points were covered and explained in my post. I guess you missed the messege entirely. Go to page one of this thread and you will find it Peace, Nausheen
	Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.
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Yusuf. Senior Member Joined: 02 July 2001 Location: far from home Online Status: Offline Posts: 2385	Posted: 02 April 2005 at 7:21pm
	*Originally posted by ChrisNo1* You ask do I know any other languages!? lol Well unfortunately I Don't. Time and money are not on my side unfortunately but it is a great ambition of mine. I hope one day to learn Turkish and Arabic! I love both those languages and wish you great success. Otherwise, I don't really dispute anything you're saying. I would not want to see any single language replace the many wonderful languages of the people of the earth.
	Yusuf
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blond Senior Member Joined: 30 March 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 218	Posted: 04 April 2005 at 11:37am
	*Originally posted by ChrisNo1* Hello Everyone, peace be with your all or in arabic Salamailakum Hello, I just wanted to know why 'arabic' is such an important element in islam. Arabic however is only a language. I am not saying its a bad language and that its not rich! Love, Peace, Submition can be expressed in all languages. Mosques quote the Qu'ran in arabic, and say their prayers in Arabic. This is ofcourse understandable in the middle east were most people speak arabic. When I went to Turkey the mosques said there prayers in 'Arabic' but most Turks I met didn't understand a thing except for a few words. That also extends to other muslim in non arabic-countries. My girlfriend who is Turkish knows all the arabic prayers but doesn't have a clue what they mean (word for word). This means the prayer is void because the person saying the word feels nothing. If it was said in their own language then the prayer would allow that person to relate to it more. Maybe I am arrogant and I'm missing something here. I understand that It's nice because Mohammed spoke the language and all the other prophets spoke semetic languages. If anyone can explain please do? According to what little I know, Arabic is the the Original language of Allah. It is the finest, most mathematically precise language. No mistakes can be claimed because the exact thought of Allah is given.
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ChrisNo1 Newbie Joined: 02 April 2005 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 19	Posted: 04 April 2005 at 1:20pm
	Maths can be performed procise in any language if I'm not mistaken. Programming languages used for huge mathematical functions are usually written in part - english! If you are saying there are codes written within the writing in the Qu'ran then someone who knows arabic wouldn't be able to see or work out the Maths! The languages of all the great prophets was not arabic, and one of the greatest 'Isa' was not arabic. Arabic was the chosen language because of Mohammed! If Mohammed lived in the Urkrain then Ukrainian would be the Chosen language for the Qu'ran. If you say Arabic is the most finest language in the world then there would be some debate on that! I'm not saying It's a bad language, I think people outside of Islam wouldn't always agree.
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