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Islam for non-Muslims
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Shams Zaman
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Quote Shams Zaman Replybullet Posted: 10 February 2006 at 12:27pm

Dear brother Steve!

I indeed am greatly obliged to you that you opted to come here to clarify and listen to the Muslim prospective rather than to form a pre-conceived idea from the western media as to what Islam stands for.

I would try to explain the verses mentioned by you but I would certainly not agree to this statement of yours: “I think it's also true that many Muslims probably don't understand that there are a lot of American citizens who disagree vehemently with our government's policies and its agenda…

Dear brother most of the Muslims know that what the common American stands for and whether they agree to their foreign policy or not. We not only know this but are also aware of the fact that common Americans are so helpless that they can’t even do anything about themselves what to talk of promoting the true image of Muslims.

 

The media and the corporate sector including the banks have such a firm control on the American policies and opinion making that everyone is helpless. This elite rule the America and the world unchallenged. (Sounding like conspiracy theory? To find out do read the following books: They Dare to Speak, Silent no more, Deliberate deceptions, written by Paul Findly an ex American congressman. Rouge State by William Blum, Plan of Attack by Bob Woodward, The Ghost Wars by Steve Coll, What Price Israel, The Zionist Connection, by Alfred Lilienthal an ex-American state department official). Some portions of these books are also available on internet.   

 

Now coming to your quotes:

These quotes are indeed from Quran. But let me ask you a question, suppose you are marching in a battle field and suddenly some enemy soldiers ambush you, mean while you start shouting for your fellow soldiers, ‘hey, there in the bushes kill them fire on them….’ And I record your voice to tell others, you see Steve was killing the people on streets, he has joined a killer gang see for yourself here is his recorded voice, and I play the tape recorded.

Would you consider it as just??

 

Same is the case here. The Chapter which mostly you quote (Sura-9) was revealed when there was a peace treaty between the Muslims of Medina and the pagans of Mecca. The truce was unilaterally broken by the pagans and they attacked the tribe which had allied with the Muslims so these verses were revealed. (Although this will also apply to those who will break the treaty in present times and in future but not to all without distinction):

1. (This is a declaration of) immunity by Allah and His Apostle towards those of the idolaters with whom you made an agreement.

 

2. So go about in the land for four months and know that you cannot weaken Allah and that Allah will bring disgrace to the unbelievers.

 

3. And an announcement from Allah and His Apostle to the people on the day of the greater pilgrimage that Allah and His Apostle are free from liability to the idolaters; therefore if you repent, it will be better for you, and if you turn back, then know that you will not weaken Allah; and announce painful punishment to those who disbelieve.

 

4. Except those of the idolaters with whom you made an agreement, then they have not failed you in anything and have not backed up any one against you, so fulfill their agreement to the end of their term; surely Allah loves those who are cautious (of their duty).

 

5. So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

(Sorry the translation which you have given is incomplete and convey altogether different meanings which says:  Qur’an 9:5 “Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.” May I ask whose translation is this?)

 

6. And if one of the idolaters seek protection from you, grant him protection till he hears the word of Allah, then escort him to a place of safety; this is because they are a people who do not know. (I would ask who will give such an amnesty to an enemy that escort him to a safe place?)

 

Are you sure that you have quoted the right verse?? Because verse 112 of Ch-9 says: “They who turn (to Allah), who serve (Him), who praise (Him), who fast, who bow down, who prostrate themselves, who enjoin what is good and forbid what is evil, and who keep the limits of Allah; and give good news to the believers” and Ch-112 has just 4 verses. Qur’an 9:112 “The Believers fight in Allah’s Cause, they slay and are slain, kill and are killed.This is not from where you have quoted.

 

This verse is also quoted out of context: Qur’an 8:39 “So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world).” See these in context Chapter 8:

 

34. And why it be so that Allah should not chastise them while they hinder (people) from going to the Sacred Mosque (Kabba) and they (themselves) do not deserve to be guardians of it; its guardians are only those who guard (against evil), but most of them do not know.

 

35. And their (non-believers) prayer before the House is nothing but whistling and clapping of hands; taste then the chastisement, for your disbelief.

 

36. Surely those who disbelieve spend their wealth to hinder (people) from the way of Allah; so they shall spend it, then it shall be to them an intense regret, then they shall be overcome; and those who disbelieve shall be driven together to hell.

 

37. So that Allah might separate the impure from the pure, and congregate the impure (people) with the others (impure), and pile them up together, then cast them into hell; these are the people who are absolute losers.

 

38. Say to those who disbelieve, if they desist, their past (bad) deeds will be forgiven; but if they don’t return, then what had happened to the ancients has been already been set (as an example for them).

 

39. And fight with them until there is no more (fitna) persecution and religion should be only for Allah; but if they desist, then surely Allah sees what they do”.

The word FITNA is used for a chaotic rule or system or a state of lawlessness or a tyrannical system or suppression or persecution or even for a system where all this exist.

 

The next set of verses (Qur’an 8:65 “O Prophet, urge the faithful to fight. If there are twenty among you with determination they will vanquish two hundred; if there are a hundred then they will slaughter a thousand unbelievers, for the infidels are a people devoid of understanding) was revealed before the Battle of BADR the first major combat between the pagans of Arabia and Muslims. The Muslims statistics were as follow:

ITEMS               MUSLIMS                                    PAGANS
Men                    313                                     1000

Horses                2                                        200

Camels                70                                   700

 

The 313 were left when a hypocrite Abdullah bin Obe left by saying that I know there will be no war and he departed along with his 300 companions. So the demoralization factor was obvious. Allah therefore boasted their morale by these verses and verse 65 was particularly for the mental state of Muslims at that time who suggested that we should now retreat as there is no comparison of forces:

 

60. And prepare against them what force you can and horses tied at the frontier, to frighten thereby the enemy of Allah and your enemy and others besides them, whom you do not know (but) Allah knows them; and whatever thing you will spend in Allah's way, it will be paid back to you fully and you shall not be dealt with unjustly.

 

61. And if they incline to peace, then incline to it and trust in Allah; surely He is the Hearing, the Knowing.

 

62. And if they intend to deceive you-- then surely Allah is sufficient for you; He it is Who strengthened you with His help and with the other believers.

 

63. And incited unity among their hearts; had you spent all that is in the earth, you could not have united their hearts, but Allah united them; surely He is Mighty, Wise.

 

64. O Prophet! Allah is sufficient for you and (for) such believers who follow you.

 

65. O Prophet! urge the believers to fight; if there are twenty patient believers among you they shall overcome two hundred, and if there are a hundred of you they shall overcome a thousand of those who disbelieve, because they are a people who do not understand.

After the war, once Muslims won even though the figure was troubling 20:200 and 100:1000 so they said to Prophet that although we won but the ratio should be increased to reduce the burden and raise the morale in battle field. So Allah reduced the burden:

 

66. For the present Allah has made light your burden, and He knows that there is weakness in you; so if there are a hundred patient ones of you they shall overcome two hundred, and if there are a thousand they shall overcome two thousand by Allah's permission, and Allah is with the patient.

 

This is the incomplete verse, Qur’an 8:7 “Allah wished to confirm the truth by His words: ‘Wipe the infidels out to the last.’” In this verse Allah is reminding the believers that before the Battle of Badr they were disputing that whether to attack the caravan of the Mecca’s pagans to give a logistical blow or to straight away interdict their marching column of 1000. Some Muslims were inclined for the caravan.

On the other hand the leader of the pagans Abu-Jahal had announced in whole of Arabia that this day would be the day of decision (Yom ul Furqan) that who is on truth. So Allah will was to show it to everyone that who is on falsehood and He had indicated to fight the marching column. The verses 1-19 were revealed at that time:

 

5. Even as your Lord caused you to go forth from your house with the truth, though a party of the believers were surely averse;

6. They disputed with you about the truth after it had become clear, (and they went forth) as if they were being driven to death while they saw them (pagans).

 

7. And when Allah promised you one of the two parties that it shall be yours and you loved that the one which was not armed should he yours and Allah desired to manifest the truth of what was true by His words and to cut off the root of the unbelievers.

 

8. That He may manifest the truth of what was true and show the falsehood of what was false, though the guilty unbelievers disliked it.

 

9. When you sought aid from your Lord, so He answered you: I will assist you with a thousand of the angels following one another.

 

10. And Allah only gave it as a good news and that your hearts might be at ease thereby; and victory is only from Allah; surely Allah is Mighty, Wise.

 

11. When He caused calm to fall on you as a security from Him and sent down upon you water from the cloud that He might thereby purify you, and take away from you the uncleanness of the Shaitan, and that He might fortify your hearts and steady (your) footsteps thereby. (Muslims were on sandy ground while pagans were on firm soil. So once rain befell slush was on the pagan’s side and firmness on Muslim’s side).

 

I don’t know who told you this translation of the verse 8. This is mere propaganda:

 

Qur’an 8:12 “Your Lord inspired the angels with the message: ‘I am with you. Give firmness to the Believers. I will terrorize the unbelievers. Therefore smite them on their necks and every joint and incapacitate them. Strike off their heads and cut off each of their fingers and toes.”

 

Hope this clarifies some of your doubts???

 

Shams Zaman

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Quote americanliar Replybullet Posted: 10 February 2006 at 2:22pm
Originally posted by Shams Zaman

Dear brother Steve!

I indeed am greatly obliged to you that you opted to come here to clarify and listen to the Muslim prospective rather than to form a pre-conceived idea from the western media as to what Islam stands for.

Shams,


Thank you for your scholarly and eloquent response. I certainly know better than to form a preconceived opinion based on propaganda from the western media. I am a longtime lay student  and critic of our corporate media system, and I have seen for many years the lies and disinformation spread by these media whores. (Yes, they are whores!) Lies not only about Islam and the culture of the Middle East, but lies about many other cultures, including Central America, with which I was intimately involved in the 1980's in opposing both Reagan and Bush I's fascist, illegal wars and atrocities in that region.


I would try to explain the verses mentioned by you but I would certainly not agree to this statement of yours: “I think it's also true that many Muslims probably don't understand that there are a lot of American citizens who disagree vehemently with our government's policies and its agenda…


Yes, I admit that even though I am keenly aware of the media and cultural bias in our country, even I cannot claim to have an accurate picture of how Muslims in general feel toward the average American citizen. That is why, in part, I came here, to get a sense of how rational Muslims, people of conscience like you, feel about us who dwell here in the belly of the beast.


I think we do have to recognize, though, that there is some level of blind hostility and rage directed at Americans, and from my perspective the outrage is justified, even though it may be directed by some more radicalized Muslims in a blanket, indiscriminate way against American citizens. When I say that "many" Muslims feel this way, please realize that I do not mean that most Muslims feel this way. I must say that I am encouraged to hear that many Muslims worldwide realize that many of us Americans are outraged as well by our government's policies, and the sheer hypocrisy of our so-called "moral stance."

Humans everywhere, Muslims, Christians, atheists and agnostics, are I believe subject to the same human weaknesses that have plagued the human race throughout history. So regardless of our particular culture, religious beliefs, or lack thereof, we can all, if we are not rational and discriminating in our investigation of truth versus lies, find ourselves with "the shoe on the other foot." Thus, just as a minority of radicalized Muslims have lashed out in blind and indiscriminate rage (witness the abduction and threatened execution of American journalist Jill Carroll in Iraq... a woman who has bravely demonstrated compassion and understanding for the people of Iraq who are being victimized by our policies), so too have Americans lashed out by supporting blindly the unjust and immoral policies of our government.

Dear brother most of the Muslims know that what the common American stands for and whether they agree to their foreign policy or not. We not only know this but are also aware of the fact that common Americans are so helpless that they can’t even do anything about themselves what to talk of promoting the true image of Muslims.


Well, I guess that makes me an uncommon American (of which I am very proud... that would make me not an "Ugly American"... a great classic book to read, by the way, for historical perspective on the dark underbelly of American influence in the world).


Not all of us are helpless, though. Against overwhelming odds, many of us are fighting to bring light and truth onto this horrible battlefield, a field of carnage and atrocities that is being perpetuated  by our "leaders" (misleaders).


This is why I have launched my new blog, American Liar, in an attempt to hold up a mirror to the American people that will reflect back the awful truth of the corruption of our nation, and to reveal and amplify the few rays of hope that still shine in our land—rays of hope that emanate from millions of us who are struggling for truth, peace and justice.

 

The media and the corporate sector including the banks have such a firm control on the American policies and opinion making that everyone is helpless. This elite rule the America and the world unchallenged. (Sounding like conspiracy theory? To find out do read the following books: ...


When lies are made to appear as truth, defenders of the liars call those of us who would proclaim the truth loudly in the public square "conspiracy theorists." Yes, I am all too aware, and very frightened, at the extent and accelerating growth of the vast conspiracy that is taking our nation down the road to fascist Empire. (And make no mistake, this has been building for a very long time; BushCo did not start this headlong march toward fascism... they have certainly taken it to the next ominous level, though.)


We in this country are living in an unreal waking nightmare (though the majority remain asleep and unaware), where down is up, wrong is "right" and slavery is "freedom." I am so sick and disgusted by it all that I am as full of rage as those on the other side of this conflict who have become radicalized as a result of our misleaders' injustice. But I temper my rage with reason and moral balance, because I know that the path to a sustainable future for all of us on this planet depends on keeping the flame of our common brotherhood and sisterhood alive.

 

Now coming to your quotes:

These quotes are indeed from Quran. But let me ask you a question, suppose you are marching in a battle field and suddenly some enemy soldiers ambush you, mean while you start shouting for your fellow soldiers, ‘hey, there in the bushes kill them fire on them….’ And I record your voice to tell others, you see Steve was killing the people on streets, he has joined a killer gang see for yourself here is his recorded voice, and I play the tape recorded.

Would you consider it as just??


You are exactly right. No, I would not. And that is why I referenced similar historical references in the Bible's Old Testament, wherein the people are instructed as to how to deal with "enemies." These are indeed historical references that, as you and others here have said, need to be seen in proper context. Unfortunately, for most of us here in this nation that context is not provided by our social, religious, educational or media institutions. And thus most of us remain in blissful ignorance!


May I ask whose translation is this?)


For now, I'm going to leave this as a mystery. Suffice it to say that this originates from a dishonest propagandist. Later on, I'll reveal my source, so stay tuned... ;-)



This verse is also quoted out of context: Qur’an 8:39 “So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world).” See these in context Chapter 8: ...


The word FITNA is used for a chaotic rule or system or a state of lawlessness or a tyrannical system or suppression or persecution or even for a system where all this exist.


A perfect description of the current state of our nation! Thank you!


I don’t know who told you this translation of the verse 8. This is mere propaganda:

 

Qur’an 8:12 “Your Lord inspired the angels with the message: ‘I am with you. Give firmness to the Believers. I will terrorize the unbelievers. Therefore smite them on their necks and every joint and incapacitate them. Strike off their heads and cut off each of their fingers and toes.”


Yes, as Angela made clear, this is certainly some very dishonest propaganda—a gross distortion of the true words of The Prophet.


Hope this clarifies some of your doubts???


Shams, my doubts were not really about the true words of Muhammad; they were about the lies that I somehow instinctively smelled as I read the so-called "quotations."

 

Again, thank you for your words of clarification, and for posting the true words of The Prophet so that I can help shed some light here in my own country. If you don't mind, I'd like to quote some portions of this discussion on my blog; I think it would be very instructive for my fellow citizens to read, to help cast the light of truth upon this cesspool of lies that we're drowning in here in America.


Assalamu Alaikum! (Peace be upon you!)


... and upon us all.




Steve






Edited by americanliar
Steve

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Quote Servetus Replybullet Posted: 10 February 2006 at 2:37pm

(Steve:) "I was raised in a fundamentalist Christian gulag ..."

And, I would guess by both your style and cadence, with the King James Version close to hand.  Welcome to the discussions.

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Quote americanliar Replybullet Posted: 10 February 2006 at 2:50pm
Yes, indeed. The King James version is still the preferred text of my parents who, unfortunately, have always had the wool pulled over their eyes by these wolves in sheep's clothing who profess to stand for "freedom," "democracy" and moral certitude.

Hmmm... isn't that in the Bible somewhere? "Wolves in sheep's clothing?" For some reason I keep hoping that they'll recognize these beasts for what they are, but I don't get any encouragement from them.

Sigh...

"Still a man hears what he wants to hear, and disregards the rest."

- Simon and Garfunkel


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Quote americanliar Replybullet Posted: 10 February 2006 at 2:57pm
OK, I just had to look it up:

Matthew 7:15

"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves."
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Quote Shams Zaman Replybullet Posted: 10 February 2006 at 11:53pm

Dear Steve!

Thankyou for a considerate reply. I just want to say what I think about some of your opinions:

I would not agree that you should call yourself as an American lair, you see it sounds somewhat disturbing. Why should be someone call himself as lair once he is not a one. Any how its all upto you but I felt it a little odd that's why I have mentioned it to you.

I would not agree that your society is an exact explaination of Fitna. I can say that if that be the case then probably some of our third world societies can be termed as FITNA. Because here power is everything with no justice at all. There are a lot of problem with the westren socities specially with regard to religion, God and parents but there are also some very good things which others need to learn. So I think its a kind of mixed society. However, personally I would never like to live in a westran society because I consider myself more prone to sin  in westren society than my own society.

There is a need that you try to make people understand that there is a sort of alliance between the radical Christians, Muslims and Jews. All want a conflict between their civilization and the other. Rather I would say it more clearly that the radicals Jews want a clash between Islam and the West and the other two have fallen victim to this ploy.

The media and the corporate is in the control of the Jews and they are pushing the USA in a ditch. What is the American intrest attached to Israel while Israel is the biggest aid reciving country while most of the oil comes from Gulf?? Why can't Us have a just policy towards Israel. A balanced policy?? Surely it has nothing to do with National Intrest but its those people who control the policy that they don't let USA to act justly.

Shams Zaman   

 

 

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Quote herjihad Replybullet Posted: 11 February 2006 at 7:00am

Bismillah,

And none of this is Academic to me because I have Muslim kids in America who are effected every day by the coercion of a bullyish society on them.  The worst thing is for people to not even know that they are part of a system that is oppressing people and that they themselves commit acts every day that augment that oppresion.

Shams, I feel the opposite about living in America.  I am used to the pressures here.  When I went to Jordan, the pressures were unbearable, and I had to leave. 

For my kids and I are stuck in between, and our lives can never be normal in that we don't fit in anywhere, but ISA we will fit in heaven nicely.

Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.
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Quote americanliar Replybullet Posted: 11 February 2006 at 10:23am
Shams,

The "American Liar" title is meant to be what we call "tongue in cheek." Not that I am the liar, but that those we talk about on the blog (Bush, Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld, at least half of our Congress, the corporate media, all of the Neocons' followers, etc.) are the liars.

The idea was actually inspired by an investment newsletter and web site here in the U.S. called The Motley Fool. They always talk about being "foolish" in a way that is meant to be a pun.

So, I'm trying to insert humor into the discussion while at the same time make people think. So many here in America are confused or ignorant about who's telling the truth, and who's telling the lies. And I think the tag line hopefully makes it clear as to what American Liar is about: "lies, liars and the fools who love them"

Regarding "fitna": Based on your description, it sounds to me like the United States IS in a state of Fitna.

Chaotic:
Government pretends to be competent and in control, able to provide for the needs of the people, but we saw what happened with Hurricane Katrina... Medicare prescription drug benefits are in a state of chaos and disarray... Incompetence and corruption in just about every government program that BushCo has created... etc., etc.

A State of Lawlessness: Rampant corruption and graft in Congress... Bushco claims to follow our Constitution, but violates the supreme law of the land and is actively destroying the Constitution behind their backs, while the corporate media looks on and aids and abets them in their crime by not telling the truth about what's really happening... Illegal spying on domestic dissenters... Cindy Sheehan gets arrested in Congress ("The People's House") for using her First Amendment free speech rights... A grossly illegal war against Iraq propped up by LIES... torture, murder, war crimes against prisoners in Iraq, Afghanistan and Guantanamo (many of them innocent), violations of the Geneva Conventions, "renditions" in an attempt to supposedly keep our hands clean... it goes on and on!

Tyrrany: The very definition of the BushCo agenda... and I fear that we haven't seen the worst of it (unless we stop them). They even steal elections! (Yes, many don't yet see the truth. Go here to find out how they're doing it: Black Box Voting)

Suppression: Suppression of free speech (protesters at the 2004  Republican National Convention were rounded up and put behind barbed wire in a "Free Speech Zone" ... and I thought the entire nation was supposed to be a free speech zone!... Now, when the President's in town, free speech behind barbed wire, away from the media and the eyes of the public.) Suppression of dissent... Suppression of dissenting views even in our own Congress! Suppression of the truth, in our media, in Congress, in the courts, and in the minds of the American people.

Yes, this all exists here now. If that's the definition of Fitna, then I think we're living in a state of Fitna.

Yes, there are positive things about our country, but they are quickly being eroded and destroyed by our corrupt and evil leaders. I think most people are unaware of how bad it really is (in a state of denial or ignorance... sedated and distracted by junk entertainment and diversionary tactics practiced by government and the corporate media), and knowing what the agenda is of this set of criminals in control of our government, they are intent on destroying what's left of our democratic system and replacing it with an authoritarian Fascist regime. (They'll leave enough "freedom" in place to give us the illusion of freedom, all the while turning the screws and taking away freedoms until they're satisfied with their degree of control over the populace.)

Yes, it sounds like a conspiracy theory. But that's exactly what it is—a conspiracy.

Now I would disagree with your statement that the media and corporations are in the hands of the jews. They're in the hands of corporate fascists. Jewishness, Christianity, religion... that has nothing really to do with it. Religion is just a tool for these people, a way to manipulate the masses and establish the fascist state that they seek.

The agenda is not about putting the system in control of the Jews; it's about putting the system in control of the corporations. An unholy alliance between government and corporation. The Israeli Jewish state is just a tool being used toward that end. The goal is creation of a worldwide Empire controlled by American and multinational corporations. The goal is creation of a New World Order, on the order of the Roman Empire of old but even more global, even more total. Power, profit and greed is the motive behind it all.

Of course now, they don't establish Empire by primarily military means alone, like the old Roman Empire. (But when they think they need it, they will use military power to establish their global agenda—as in Iraq.) Now they have a broader and more insidious set of tools. A global financial system that uses the World Bank, the IMF, multinational banks and other institutions to arm-twist and force their way into every nation on the planet, to act as loan sharks to gain control of resources (natural resources, labor and government structures). A global media empire to spread a blanket of propanda,  to hide the truth from the people and advance their agenda. Increasingly concentrated ownership of corporations, and control of national and worldwide markets via these huge corporations.

The agenda is "bigger, more powerful, and all-pervasive" corporate control of everything. We'll control your media, your schools, your banks, your health care systems, your communications systems, your governments, your churches (to a large degree)... and your minds.

Big Brother is on the march.

This is scary stuff. And for those of us who remember what our nation's founding principles were, this is an abomination and a foul corruption of everything that was good about America. This is the very destruction of democracy, of freedom, and of human liberty.

This is global fascism for the new millenia. This is the agenda of our "leaders."

(Now many people will disagree vehemently with my use of the word "fascism." That's because they don't understand what fascism is about. They need to read The 14 Characteristics of Fascism. You can also read Justin Raimondo's excellent article, A Fascist America. No, fascism doesn't have to look exactly like Nazi Germany for it to be a fascist state. I encourage everyone: educate yourself!)

You ask, "What is the American interest attached to Israel while Israel is the biggest aid receiving country while most of the oil comes from Gulf? Why can't US have a just policy towards Israel. A balanced policy?"

I believe it's because this is all part of our strategy for global domination. We are addicted to oil, and our leaders have no intention of kicking that addiction any time soon. (It's too profitable for them and their friends.) Israel is a platform for extending American power into the Middle East, and to fend off radical Islam, which they perceive as threatening their access to the region's oil reserves. As long as they can help Israel to maintain their unbalanced and unfair policies, they will have a strong ally (with a nuclear arsenal). It's easier to use Israel as a platform, rather than an Islamic country. And of course, Iraq was meant to be a second major platform for extending dominance into the Middle East... at least that was the idea. We can see where that's gotten them now, of course. Not so easy as they had anticipated.

Now I realize that this is a forum for discussion of Islam and the Qur'an, and all this political talk may be seen as muddying the waters. But from the perspective of many Muslims, our nation's policies are seen as an attack on Islam, and so I think this is pertinent to a discussion of what constitutes "right action" and moral policy for any nation, and for any citizen of that nation. To be sure, our misleaders' policies can be seen as a frontal assault on any system of true moral rectitude, whether it be Islam, Christianity, or any other (including even secular humanism).

So I appreciate your forbearance in listening to my diatribes. I am not a religious person, but I am a spiritual person with a foundation in correct moral principles. That my nation has embarked on the destruction of correct moral principles is, to me, a source of shame, horror and outrage. Millions of us here in America are feeling this shame, and we're determined to do something to reverse this dangerous course that our nation is on.

Assalamu Alaikum! (Peace be upon you!)


... and upon us all.

Steve

American Liar
"lies, liars and the fools who love them"

http://americanliar.com
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