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americanliar
 
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Quote americanliar Replybullet Topic: Research on disinformation re: Qur’an
    Posted: 09 February 2006 at 11:47pm
I've been prompted to do some research on disinformation about the Qur'an and the Prophet Muhammad. I haven't studied the Qur'an, so I'm at a disadvantage, and I hope some of you can help me in sorting out fact from fiction.

As little as I know, I have a distinct feeling that there is a lot of disinformation and misinformation in the Western world, particularly in the U.S. Tonight I was watching the Charlie Rose show, featuring a discussion about the latest outbreak of outrage over the disrespectful Danish cartoons. Nihad Awad (Executive Director, Council on American-Islamic Relations) in particular caught my attention, in talking about the inaccurate, monolithic view on the part of Americans of the worldwide Muslim community and a lack of understanding and perspective on how most Muslims feel (not just about the cartoons, but also re: the policies of the West and the cultural clash -- which I believe is being fanned by our "leaders" -- that has accelerated in recent years).

In the same way that so many Americans misperceive what Muslims feel, I think it's also true that many Muslims probably don't understand that there are a lot of American citizens who disagree vehemently with our government's policies and its agenda (not just today, but historically), and that there are many of us who really believe that this clash would be completely unnecessary, particularly if the West were to have a fair, enlightened and morally responsible Middle East policy. Indeed, if we had a fair, enlightened and morally responsible worldwide foreign policy.

So, in the interest of helping to shed some light rather than heat, I'd like to post a few samples of what is PURPORTED to be quotations from the Qur'an. I'm not going to reveal the source at this point; I want to get an honest evaluation of these "quotations" from those of you Muslims (particularly learned Muslims) in this community.

So here goes:
(and no offense meant by posting this here... if, as I suspect, these "quotations" are indeed fabrications or distortions of The Prophet's words)

Qur’an 9:112 “The Believers fight in Allah’s Cause, they slay and are slain, kill and are killed.”

Qur’an 9:5 “Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”

Qur’an 8:39 “So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world).”

Qur’an 8:65 “O Prophet, urge the faithful to fight. If there are twenty among you with determination they will vanquish two hundred; if there are a hundred then they will slaughter a thousand unbelievers, for the infidels are a people devoid of understanding.”

Qur’an 8:7 “Allah wished to confirm the truth by His words: ‘Wipe the infidels out to the last.’”

Qur’an 8:12 “Your Lord inspired the angels with the message: ‘I am with you. Give firmness to the Believers. I will terrorize the unbelievers. Therefore smite them on their necks and every joint and incapacitate them. Strike off their heads and cut off each of their fingers and toes.”

I've searched for parts of this text in a couple of online searchable Qur'ans, but none of these "quotations" or even portions of them comes up in the search results.

I appreciate your comments...

steve




Edited by americanliar
Steve

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Angela
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Quote Angela Replybullet Posted: 10 February 2006 at 8:02am

9:112 [It is a triumph of] those who turn [unto God] in repentance [whenever they have sinned], and who worship and praise [Him], and go on and on [seeking His goodly acceptance], and bow down [before Him] and prostrate themselves in adoration, and enjoin the doing of what is right and forbid the doing of what is wrong, and keep to the bounds set by God. And give thou [O Prophet] the glad tiding [of God's promise] to all believers.

9:5 And so, when the sacred months are over  , slay those who ascribe divinity to aught beside God wherever you may come upon them,  and take them captive, and besiege them, and lie in wait for them at every conceivable place! Yet if they repent, and take to prayer, and render the purifying dues, let them go their way: for, behold, God is much forgiving, a dispenser of grace.

8:39 And fight against them until there is no more oppression and all worship is devoted to God alone.  And if they desist-behold, God sees all that they do;

8:65 O Prophet! Inspire the believers to conquer all fear of death when fighting, [so that,] if there be twenty of you who are patient in adversity, they might overcome two hundred; and [that,] if there be one hundred of you, they might overcome one thousand of those who are bent on denying the truth, because they are people who cannot grasp it.

8:7 And, lo, God gave you the promise that one of the two [enemy] hosts would fall to you: and you would have liked to seize the less powerful one, whereas it was God's will to prove the truth to be true in accordance with His words, and to wipe out the last remnant of those who denied the truth

8:12 Lo! Thy Sustainer inspired the angels [to convey this His message to the believers]: "I am with you !" [And He commanded the angels:] "And, give firmness unto those who have attained to faith [with these words from Me]: `I shall cast terror into the hearts of those who are bent on denying the truth; strike, then, their necks, [O believers,] and strike off every one of their finger-tips!"

I found these using the Islamicity Quran Search.  But, you must understand that Sura 8, the Spoils of War or the Al-Anfal is also a narration of events that took place in the Prophets lifetime.  I am a Christian, and I have found the western media likes to take Ayats (verses) out of context of their greater Surah (chapter).  My suggestion Steve is to get yourself a Pickthall's Koran or another english translation and read it for yourself.  There are plenty of websites that offer this as well.  The one below has multiple translations of the same verse, that way you can see the differences depending on the linguist translating it.  It helped me out.

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/



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Quote americanliar Replybullet Posted: 10 February 2006 at 8:37am
Angela,

Thank you for your response on this. Just as I suspected, the supposed "quotes" are outright distortions and fabrications that, I believe, are deliberately intended to misrepresent the true words of The Prophet.

Regarding historical accounts of supposed divine sanction for slaughter and decimation of religious and cultural "enemies," we should always remember that the Bible's Old Testament is rife with accounts of believers being told to smite their enemies and kill them all, down to the last woman and child. There are many accounts of atrocities in the Bible (just about entirely Old Testament, I believe) that many in the Judeo-Christian tradition seem to have taken as divine sanction for acting out their own darkest impulses. Witness the Crusades (now reincarnated by the impious King George), the Inquisition, and the genocide against the Native Americans by European invaders, to name but a few.

I was raised in a fundamentalist Christian gulag (that's how it felt to me), and I vividly remember adults in authority quoting the Old Testament scripture dictating that disobedient sons be taken outside the gates of the city and stoned to death by the community. This was preached with all deadly seriousness. (The New Testament certainly seems to have taken a shift in philosophy; I can't remember any sanction for such "divinely sanctioned" violence, at least on the part of us mortals.)

Admittedly, my knowledge of Islam is as limited as most Westerners, but I think we in the West have nothing to say in terms of self-righteous accusations and misrespresentations of another religion's belief system.

Luke 6:42

"Either how canst thou say to thy brother, Brother, let me pull out the mote that is in thine eye, when thou thyself beholdest not the beam  that is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to pull out the mote that is in thy brother's eye."

Thanks again, Angela, for your comments and for the Qur'an research reference. I'm looking forward to others' comments.

Steve



Edited by americanliar
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Quote americanliar Replybullet Posted: 10 February 2006 at 8:46am
PS: Note that for those of you who don't see it at first, Angela has provided a verse by verse comparison of the adulterated "quotations" with the actual scriptures.

Very instructive.

steve


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Quote Angela Replybullet Posted: 10 February 2006 at 9:18am

Your welcome Steve.  I was not raised in a traditional setting.  My mother's family is Russian Orthodox Catholic, my father's family is Methodist.  I was raised with varying view [oints to start with and it eventually led to me finding my own path. 

In the Quran, Old Testament and New Testament, one must always look at the Greater context of the verses we are quoting. 

Al-Anfal was revealed at Medina.  And the Muslims here can correct me on this, but it was probably revealed while he was fighting the pagans in Mecca who were trying to destroy him and his followers.  These passages were meant to comfort and encourage the members of the revealed truth so they would know Allah would not abandon them in their trials.  It was not giving them a license to kill indiscriminantly. 

There is a verse and I'm not sure which one it is that says to kill a human is to have killed all of humanity.  Hopefully one of the faithful Muslims here can post the actual ayat.

 

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Quote herjihad Replybullet Posted: 10 February 2006 at 11:49am

Bismillah, (In the name of Allah, God)

Yo, Angela!  You are really special!  Thanks for this great answer.  I mean if someone else posted this, that would be nice, but you as a non-Muslim posting this is truly an act that Allah, The Most Loving and Forgiving, will bless.

(I don't know if that's Quran or Hadith about humanity...)

But even back during these times of war, the rules of war didn't compare to those of the Bible or today's modern Geneva convention.  The Islaamic rules of war then and now are much more concerned with the protection of innocent lives, and certainly doesn't blame sin done by one on their next generation down to have them punished for things grandpa did.

Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.
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Quote Khadija1021 Replybullet Posted: 10 February 2006 at 12:12pm

Salam Steve and Welcome to IC,

 

The Qur’an ayat which Angela mentioned is as follows:

 

5:32 Because of this did We ordain unto the children of Israel that if anyone slays a human being-unless it be [in punishment] for murder or for spreading corruption on earth-it shall be as though he had slain all mankind; whereas, if anyone saves a life, it shall be as though he had saved the lives of all mankind. And, indeed, there came unto them.  Our apostles with all evidence of the truth: yet, behold, notwithstanding all this, many of them go on committing all manner of excesses on earth.

 

There are three other ayats which state that it is wrong to kill any human being without just cause.  They are:

 

6:151 Say: "Come, let me convey unto you what God has [really] forbidden to you: "Do not ascribe divinity, in any way, to aught beside Him; and [do not offend against but, rather,] do good unto your parents; and do not kill your children for fear of poverty - [for] it is We who shall provide sustenance for you as well as for them; and do not commit any shameful deeds, be they open or secret; and do not take any human being’s life-[the life] which God has declared to be sacred -otherwise than in [the pursuit of] justice: this has He enjoined upon you so that you might use your reason;

 

17:33 And do not take any human being’s life -[the life] which God has willed to be, sacred-otherwise than in [the pursuit of] justice. Hence, if anyone has been slain wrongfully, We have empowered the defender of his rights [to exact a just retribution]; but even so, let him not exceed the bounds of equity in [retributive] killing. [And as for him who has been slain wrongfully -] behold, he is indeed succored [by God]!

 

25:68 and who never invoke any [imaginary] deity side by side with God, and do not take any human being’s life - [the life] which God has willed to be sacred - otherwise than in [the pursuit of] justice, and do not commit adultery. And [know that] he who commits aught thereof shall [not only] meet with a full requital

 

No Muslim can give just cause as whatever he/she thinks is just cause.  It has to be the just cause set for by Allah.  Furthermore, Allah clearly states in the following ayat that no human being should be held accountable for another human being’s wrong action, nor should any human being be made to bear the burden for another human being.  This means that it is wrong for anyone to kill an innocent person for what some other person has done.

 

6:164 Say: "Am I, then, to seek a sustainer other than God, when He is the Sustainer of all things?" And whatever [wrong] any human being commits rests upon himself alone; and no bearer of burdens shall be made to bear another's burden. And, in time, unto your Sustainer you all must return: and then He will make you [truly] understand all that on which you were wont to differ.

 

I hope this information is helpful.  By the way, I’m an American Muslim.  What I mean is that I was born and raise in the US…of Scottish and Native American descent...I was not raise Muslim…but I reverted to Islam in 2005.  ALHAMDULILLAH! (THANKS BE TO GOD)  If someone would have told me a year ago I would become Muslim, I would have called them a liar.  Little did I know what Allah had in store for me.  ALLAHU AKBAR!  (GOD IS GREAT)

 

Just in case you have not seen the video about Texans turning Muslim, I am including the link (http://xrl.us/jug3) .  Watch it; it will really give you a good look at why some Americans are choosing to follow Allah through Islam.  By the way, I don’t live in Texas…well, not since 1990 anyway. 

 

I do hope you stick around IC and learn more about Islam.  That way, INSHALLAH (IF GOD IS WILLING) you can help educate Americans who have been fed lies about Islam with the truth.  That’s not an invitation or push to become Muslim…not to say it wouldn’t be a wonderful blessing if you did take Shahadah (Islamic creed)…but I don’t want you think I’m pushing Islam on you.  Islam is not a faith of compulsion.  I’m simply glad, ALHAMDULILLAH, when any non-Muslim wants to know the truth regarding Islam.  JAZAK ALLAH KHAIR (MAY ALLAH BLESS YOU) you for your desire to learn the truth about Islam.

 

Angela JAZAK ALLAH KHAIR for your love of showing the truth about Islam although you are a sister from another Holy Book.

 

PAZ

Sister Khadija

Say: 'My prayer and my rites, my living and my dying, are for Allah alone, the Lord of all the worlds. (Qur'an, 6:162)
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Quote Angela Replybullet Posted: 10 February 2006 at 12:21pm

I knew you'd be the one to find them, Sister Khadija. 

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