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AhmadJoyia
 
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Quote AhmadJoyia Replybullet Posted: 20 February 2006 at 7:41pm
Originally posted by Melco

Originally posted by AhmadJoyia

Originally posted by melco

.... He may have been given a special role, but he killed people in his day and he had many wives, and also many children (and you don't get those from just preaching).

Your info about prophet Mohammad is quite off the mark, though you are right that he wasn't the God.


Are you claiming that Muhammad (PBUH) never killed anyone or that he never had different children from different wives? Please correct me, if I am wrong.

If you think fighting a battle/war is what makes a person "killer" then I guess, presidents of both USA and UK can also be in the same category. Isn't it? 

How many children did Prophet Mohammad had when you alluded "many children"? Let us know about your knowledge about it?  



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Shams Zaman
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Quote Shams Zaman Replybullet Posted: 21 February 2006 at 7:07am

Just a heresay which he might have heard from an evengalist or someone holding prejudices to Islam.

Prophet Muhammed became so angry when on Capture of Mecca some children of infedals got injured from the horses of some Muslims. So once Prophet said to be careful someone said "they were the children of the non-believers!''.  On hearing this Prophet lost his temper and said, "Remember the children of non-belivers are better than you!, Remember the children of non-believers are better than you!, Remember the children of non-believer are better than you!," so do not kill any even by negligence.... (or words to this effect).

I don't know where he read this that Prophet killed the children. Mere cynical propaganda.

Shams Zaman

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AhmadJoyia
 
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Quote AhmadJoyia Replybullet Posted: 21 February 2006 at 7:13am
Bro Shams thanks for your quote pertaining to conquest of Mekkah, can you provide the reference to it as I am interested to read more about it. Secondly bro Melco, I think, is not commenting about "killing" of children but "having many" children. So I am more curious of his info about this. Thanks
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Wrangel
 
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Quote Wrangel Replybullet Posted: 22 February 2006 at 10:03am

Servitus,

I am really not very qualified to answer questions on law.

In Danish law is what is commonly refered to as the racist parapraph. It gives equal protection to people based on religion, race, sexual preference, nationality, and some more. It is used now and then. The punishments are not very severe. In the past is has been a applied to a few cases. Mostly local radio stations. The cases that pops to mind are nationalistic Danes expressing hatred for Muslims. And also cases where Muslims express hatred for jews. When I say hatred I mean, very clear hateful statements ... . So from a legal and moral standpoint these cases has been very clear. Radio station responsible person gets a sentence, permission to broadcast is revoked.

Thats all I can recall. It's never been a big deal in Denmark.

Hi Shams Zaman,

Please explain what the hypocracy consist of. You say David Irving was sentenced in Austria. I heard about that too. Exactly how does this makes the west hypocritical. Lets forget that he was sentenced according to Austrian law. I am not sure how many European countries have this law. I think its an excellent law.

If we have fixed the problem where we don't allow nazis to spread their venom. In the way David Irving does and others. Why do you complain? Would you like us to undo this? The nazis are "our" extremists. We form laws to keep them under control. Their actions don't just hurt westerners. They hurt anything and anybody who does not look like, or behave like them.

Law in democratic countries are formed based on political processes, and on need. Practical and moral needs.

In this case where an insult, that never was intended to be an insult, by a single newspaper, has turned into a hateful protest against an entire nation. The democratic process has a problem to handle this. Democratic processes don't work well under preassure, they require discussion and thought. Goverments work under the control of law.

When you say you view westeners as "igonarant and clueless" I don't feel I need to address this. It's a statement full of the very same. True, I am ignorant when it comes to Islam and Muslim countries. But you have showed me no evidence, saying you are not equally ignorant when it comes to Europe. I do value your contribution.



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Melco
 
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Quote Melco Replybullet Posted: 22 February 2006 at 10:43am
Thank you AhmadJoyia, yes, I meant "having many children", not "killing many children". I wouldn't suggest that Muhammad would dare have children killed. He simply had them sold as slaves after the trial in Medina.  
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Melco
 
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Quote Melco Replybullet Posted: 22 February 2006 at 10:46am
For those who aren't aware that Muhammad (PBUH) was guilty of a war crime. Read the following:
Alleged to have aided the forces of Muhammad's enemies in violation of a prior pact, the Qurayza were subsequently isolated and besieged. Twice the Qurayza made offers to surrender, and depart from their stronghold, leaving behind their land and property. Initially they requested to take one camel load of possessions per person, but when Muhammad refused this request, the Qurayza asked to be allowed to depart without any property, taking with them only their families. However, Muhammad insisted that the Qurayza surrender unconditionally and subject themselves to his judgment. Compelled to surrender, the Qurayza were lead to Medina. The men with their hands pinioned behind their backs, were put in a court, while the women and children were said to have been put into a separate court. A third (and final) appeal for leniency for the Qurayza was made to Muhammad by their tribal allies the Aus. Muhammad again declined, and instead he appointed as arbiter Sa’d Mu’adh from the Aus, who soon rendered his concise verdict: the men were to be put to death, the women and children sold into slavery, the spoils to be divided among the Muslims.
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AhmadJoyia
 
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Quote AhmadJoyia Replybullet Posted: 22 February 2006 at 11:03am

And those who are interested in the facts and not the propoganda, can view my response to bro Melco's at http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3751& ; ;PN=1&TPN=3

Also, I do see avoidance of bro Melco to respond to my question about his allegation of "many children". Is there any specific reason for this avoidance??? Hope one can now differentiate between reality and hypothetical imagination entirely based upon propoganda.



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Melco
 
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Quote Melco Replybullet Posted: 22 February 2006 at 3:46pm
Ahmad, well tell me then, exactly how many children did Muhammad have?
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