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Interfaith Dialogue
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Rehmat
 
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Quote Rehmat Replybullet Posted: 12 April 2005 at 12:43pm

Originally posted by Shams Zaman

....Lot of people will say that the “Protocols of Learned Elders of Zion” are merely conspiracy theories but I won’t buy that idea. If these are conspiracy theories then why everything is happening according to these protocols. The same answer was asked by Mr. Henry Ford in his famous book “The International Jew.”....

We are told that The Protocols of Zion is a hoax, a "proven forgery" concocted by the Tsarist Political Police (the Okhrana) to incite anti Semitism and discredit revolutionaries.

But the "proof" is far from convincing.

It consists of three articles published in The London Times (August 16-18, 1921) by Philip Graves – which smack Zionist propaganda operation. Graves "expose" of Protocols appeared in August 1921 when Zionists were pressing the League of Nations to turn Palestine into a Jewish homeland under British Mandate.

In The Controversy of Zion, (Chapter 34) Douglas Reed, a Times' staffer at the time, provides additional background.

In May 1920, Lord Northcliffe, a part owner of The Times, printed an article about the Protocols entitled "The Jewish Peril, A Disturbing Pamphlet, A Call for an Enquiry. " It concluded:

"An impartial investigation of these would-be documents and their history is most desirable...are we to dismiss the whole matter without inquiry and to let the influence of such a book as this work unchecked?"

Then in May 1922 Northcliffe visited Palestine and wrote that Britain had been too hasty to promise it to the Jewish people when in fact it belonged to 700,000 Muslim Arab residents. Wickham Steed, the editor of The Times of London in 1921 refused to print the article and Northcliffe tried to get him fired. Somehow Steed was able to have Northcliffe declared "insane" and committed. Later Northcliffe complained he was being poisoned and died suddenly in 1922. Douglas Reed was Northcliffe's secretary but didn't learn of these events until they appeared in the Official History of the Times in the 1950's.

Clearly Northcliffe had offended some "big boys" when he opposed the British Mandate in Palestine. Why was it so important? Israel is intended to be the capital of the Masonic World Government. They are already constructing the infrastructure.

http://www.rense.com/general45/proto.htm

Wa Salaam

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Tomorrow it will be too late
What You Don’t Know Can Kill You

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Shams Zaman
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Quote Shams Zaman Replybullet Posted: 12 April 2005 at 1:14pm

Unfortunately Sir you are true and now they are after the Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem. Iran is also on their target. Almost 40% of the most influential posts in US Admnistration are held by Zionist Jews. The famous book of Mr. Paul Findly "They Dare to Speak Out" an ex-American congressmen is sufficient to open the eyes of all of us.

Shams Zaman Pakistan.  

smszmn72@yahoo.cm
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Rehmat
 
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Quote Rehmat Replybullet Posted: 12 April 2005 at 1:38pm
Originally posted by Shams Zaman

Unfortunately Sir you are true and now they are after the Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem. Iran is also on their target. Almost 40% of the most influential posts in US Admnistration are held by Zionist Jews. The famous book of Mr. Paul Findly "They Dare to Speak Out" an ex-American congressmen is sufficient to open the eyes of all of us.

Shams Zaman Pakistan.  

Paul Findley's second book 'Silence no more' is another eye opner for the 'duped' American public. However, here is a link which can take you to the very root of the world problems.

http://www.radioislam.net/islam/english/toread/frnklin.htm

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Quote AhmadJoyia Replybullet Posted: 12 April 2005 at 3:34pm
Originally posted by Shams Zaman

This is to reply all who have been generous to offer comments on the topic. I had initially said we live in the world of logic and rationale but didn’t offer all the scientific logics because the document would have been too lengthy. As few readers have correctly pointed out. However I would justify as follow.

FOR MUSLIM BROTHERS

As for what Bible (Old Testament) says about Human life, my exact calculations may have gone wrong. However, these were based as follow:

From Adam to Noah = 1056 years, Noah age 950 years, Noah to Abraham = 381 years and Ishaq was born once Abraham was 100. From Jacob to Exodus it counts to   730 years. (Genesis- Ch,5 verse1-32, Ch11, verse10-32, Ch21, verse6, Ch47, verse 28, Ch50, verse 26 and Exodus- Ch 12, verse 37-41). Therefore this total comes to 3117 years (lets round it to 3500). For the period after the exodus covered in Old or New Testament I have not read that. From here I count on history.

Jesus came approx 1500 years after Moses so it totals up to 5000 years. Add another 2000 years it comes to 7000 years. But as to why I would assume that Human Life span is not older than 15000 years, because Quran and Hadith (according to my reading) does not offer any estimates. However, some Muslim scholars who have offered Quranic explanations estimate it to be as such. Well it can’t be claimed for sure. 

Wow! what a case presentation. On one side you are providing a scientific evidence and on the other side you say your calculations (based on unauthentic references) are not sure, but then you conclude  that you based your opinion on your calculations. Where is the logic to reach your conclusion? I am amazed. BTW before opening a book, it is always important to look at its author as who says what. Have you confirmed the authorship of the OT that you are quoting from? Kindly let me know if you have. Thanks  

 

Originally posted by Shams Zaman

 As to what Mr. Ahmed Joya has objected to the Juedo-Christian myths, sorry there is nothing to cheer as my source remains to be Quran, Sunnah and the Companions of Prophet (mpbuh) Sahabbah.

Ma Sha Allah! so, it is indeed a matter of cheers that you say that you have chosen the right references; Isn't it?

 

Originally posted by Shams Zaman

Jinns inhabitation:  

Narrated by Hazrat Abdullah bin Umer (RA), “2000 years before the birth of Adam Jinns were the inhabitants on earth but due to their bloodshed and fitna (anarchy), Allah sent angels who killed most of them while some took refuge on remote islands and forests.” Quoted by Hazrat Abu Jafar from Ibn-a- Ibe Hatem (RA) written in “The Narrations of Prophets” (Qasas-ul-Anbiya) by Hafiz Imam Ibn-a-Kaseer.  Also narrated by Hazrat Ibn-e-Abbas (RA) real uncle of the Prophet (mpuh) in the same book.

I would comment on this as one must ascertain that the only true source regarding matters not related to this world are through Allah and his messanger (Prophet Mohammad). Big respect for shahaba, but they are not qualified at their own (without quoting it from Prophet Mohammad) to say anything about things which are beyond human mind or logic. They can't be primary source of such information. So, brother kindly let me know which hadith is it that relates this story. So, till that time the reference you provided may remain unvalid. BTW kindly verify if Hazrat Abbas was the real uncle or his son  (Hazrat Ibn-e- Abbas) was his real uncle?

Originally posted by Shams Zaman

Allah Provided Satan with Full Opportunity.   Narrated in Sahih Muslim and also compiled in Maskaat Volume 3 Chapter Creation of Adam, Hadith no 5457, Hazrat Anas(RA) narrated that, Holy Prophet said, “Once Allah created Adam’s body, He left it in the heaven without casting his sprit for a time of which He knows. Lucifer started circling around to see as what it is? On looking inside, he discovered it to be unsound.”

I was glad to see a hadith reference in your quote, but am saddly disappointed not find it on my search in the Sahih Muslim. Kindly let me know what is the reference from sahih muslim himself. Following is the link for the collection of Sahih Muslim that I used to search on the internet and couldn't find it. If you can help me find it from it, I shall highly appreciate.

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muslim /

Originally posted by Shams Zaman

And why the world is about to see its end, not only Quran and Ahadiths clearly foretells it but science also points to the same very direction. The global warming, green house effects, the on going conflicts and threat of nuclear war and melting of ice at the poles, water crisis and diminishing energy reserves etc are the indicators. Holy Prophet had warned that once war over gold (oil/ Black gold) will start the emergence of Anti-Christ or Dajjal will be imminent. There are numerous sites which can give you information regarding major and minor signs of Doomsday. Like:

www.wakeupmuslims.com  

I thought you are going to present some "logic ( that you initially claimed and then reiterated in this quote as well)" to use to support your opinon that you stated. Mere conjectures ...., well there is nothing new in them. Of course we believe on the day of judgement, but we also believe that no body knows except Allah and Allah alone. So it would be naive to say the earth is about to complete its life merely through conjectures. Prophet did foretell us about some of the indications before the final day of judgement, but never ever hinted upon how much time would elapse between them to the last day. Anyone guessing on them would only be a heresy. May Allah guide us all. Amen. Cheers.

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Quote Daniel Dworsky Replybullet Posted: 12 April 2005 at 4:11pm
Rehmat
The talmud is so NOT holier than the bible.
The protocols of the elders of Zion is bunk

The Talmud is the basis for argument it's like the other Ktuvim (After
Writtings). It's a bunch of Rabbis spinning their wheels in the
diaspora. Some of it is helpful for learning the art of arguement as it
is itself always a raw source of arguement. There are lots of books
but only one Torah (OT) in Judaisim

Here in Israel and in America, many good people of all faiths are
working very hard and risking everything to do the right thing.

CNN and Fox are at best not giving you the whole picture and
sometimes it's totally just the wrong picture. It doesn't stop ordinary
Israelis from putting them selves in harms way to protect Palestinians
from house demolitions by the Army and Hooliganism by Settler
Nutters. I'm still having corrective dental surgery done from one such
encounter with my own border police.

We all have a lot of work to do here in Israel and in the U.S. but we
can't get the other half of the public to lighten up or listen to us with
ignorant people spewing hateful rubbish.

What you say and how you feel matters in the world.

Edited by Daniel Dworsky
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Quote Rehmat Replybullet Posted: 12 April 2005 at 4:29pm

Originally posted by Daniel Dworsky

Rehmat
The talmud is so NOT holier than the bible.
The protocols of the elders of Zion is bunk ....

Wrong on both accounts

The Talmud is Judaism's holiest book. Its authority takes precedence over the Old Testament in Judaism. Evidence of this may be found in the Talmud itself, Erubin 21b (Soncino edition): "My son, be more careful in the observance of the words of the Scribes than in the words of the Torah (Old Testament) – From ‘The Truth about Talmud, by Dr. Alan R. Critchley

 

Genocide Advocated by Talmud

Minor Tractates. Soferim 15, Rule 10. This is the saying of Rabbi Simon ben Yohai: Tob shebe goyyim harog ("Even the best of the Gentiles should all be killed").

This passage is not from the Soncino edition but is from the original Hebrew of the Babylonian Talmud as quoted by the 1907 Jewish Encyclopedia, published by Funk and Wagnalls and compiled by Isidore Singer, under the entry, "Gentile," (p. 617).

This original Talmud passage has been concealed in translation. The Jewish Encyclopedia states that, "...in the various versions the reading has been altered, 'The best among the Egyptians' being generally substituted." In the Soncino version: "the best of the heathens" (Minor Tractates, Soferim 41a-b].

Israelis annually take part in a national pilgrimage to the grave of Simon ben Yohai, to honor this rabbi who advocated the extermination of non-Jews. (Jewish Press of June 9, 1989, p. 56B).

On Purim, Feb. 25, 1994, Israeli army officer Baruch Goldstein, an orthodox Khazar from Brooklyn, massacred 40 Palestinian civilians, including children, while they knelt in prayer in a mosque. Goldstein was a disciple of the late Rabbi Kahane who has stated that his view of Arabs as "dogs" is "from the Talmud." (Cf. CBS 60 Minutes, "Kahane").

Univ. of Jerusalem Prof. Ehud Sprinzak described Kahane and Goldstein's philosophy: "They believe it's God's will that they commit violence against 'goyim,' a Hebrew term for non-Jews." (NY Daily News, Feb. 26, 1994, p. 5).

Rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburg declared, "We have to recognize that Jewish blood and the blood of a goy are not the same thing." (NY Times, June 6, 1989, p.5). Rabbi Yaacov Perrin says, "One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail." (NY Daily News, Feb. 28, 1994, p.6).

Regarding 'The Protocols' - read my earlier post.

 



 

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Tomorrow it will be too late
What You Don’t Know Can Kill You

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Quote Daniel Dworsky Replybullet Posted: 13 April 2005 at 3:55am
Calling Ginzberg and Kahane Jews is like calling Goebles and
Eichman Christians and Osama Ben Laden a Muslim.
Don't bother answering. I have read all your posts and they are the
same voice as the brave anonymous "Jews" that call me at 04:00 to
tell me they know where my children go to school.
My White Christian neighbor in Minnesota that told me in confidence
that "Jew's are just niggers turned inside out"

REAL evil is being done as we speak and you waste your time arguing
about nonesense that even if ANY of it were true would hold
no power except for Looneys like Ginsberg Levinger and Kahane
(You missed a few ). You blur the real issues by bringing up
old lies misquotations and drawing conclusions when based on truth
at all are cynically out of context. It's Just Evil.
You and I should be working together we are all ignorant in some
way. You don't know any more about Judaisim than Baruch Goldstein
did.
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Rehmat
 
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Quote Rehmat Replybullet Posted: 13 April 2005 at 6:10am

Originally posted by Daniel Dworsky

Calling Ginzberg and Kahane Jews is like calling Goebles and Eichman Christians and Osama Ben Laden a Muslim......

Living in self-denial Iznogoodh.

Both Goebles and Eichman were Catholics. Former was a practicing Catholic while the later was a confessed Zionist.

Both Ginzber and Kahane were born Jewish. Both were terrorist and murderers. Kahane was the founder of the most facist Jewish organization in the US - JDL and his grave in Israel is always surrounded by his Jewish settler-supporters and worshippers.

Mybe you should check with your Rabbi to confirmed that 'once a born Jew - is always a Jew even if become an atheist'.

Osama bin Laden is born into a Muslim family. He is considered a 'hero' by tens of million Mulsms and non-Muslims all over the world for his courage to defy the US and Israel -and not as an Islamic scholar.


 

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