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Interfaith Dialogue
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AhmadJoyia
 
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Quote AhmadJoyia Replybullet Posted: 06 April 2005 at 7:08am
Originally posted by Rehmat

Originally posted by AhmadJoyia

I think, Rehmat, you may need to provide another translation of verse 2:62, if you plainly disagree as you say and I Quote ".... - the above translation is NOT according to the historical facts." with the one posted by Ummziba. Your "historical facts" and the verse are not in direct contradiction to each other. Moreover, even if only 1 out of zellion people of the book at the time of Prophet Mohammad didn't believe him, doesn't mean that there is some contradiction between the translation and your "historical facts". Quran is replete with verses chastising both jews and christians for their evil doings, however, the above mentioned translation of verse 2:62 as well as your "histroical facts" still admit the possiblity that there might be some (though, very few) of them still believing in one God and doing the right things only to please Him.

Asslam-o-Aliakum

I feel my 'historical facts' has no disrespect to the message of Holy Qur'an. What I was trying to explain that the English translation doesn't do justice to those Arabic words: Yahud and Nasarah.

I have similar personal reservation when Muslim used 'God' as translation for 'Allah' - because English word 'God' doesn't even come close to Allah's limitless Attributes and His Majesty.

Oh, I see! Then what is your version of the translation for these words "Yahud and Nasarah"? Also, your personal opinon on word 'God' is well respected but I think you do know whats the underlying meaning of it when a "muslim" talks about especially with regard to Quran. I also know that often a times realization of some facts that have been distorted by specific group may make you at un ease, but one may be conscientious of his own arrogant behaviour while dealing with common people. Knowledge and wisdom brings humbleness to the attitude, however, only empty vessel makes much noise. Cheers.

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Quote AhmadJoyia Replybullet Posted: 06 April 2005 at 7:33am
Originally posted by Rehmat

Originally posted by AhmadJoyia

Bro Rehmat,

Your quotes from "Jewish Holy Talmud"   are relatively new to me. Can you guide me as to which book is this "Talmud" in the bible (OT) or its just a collection of wise sayings by their scholars or whatever they call it. If its just that as I guessed it, then its little naive to refer them here for their original beleifs. Of course you can find the same kind of stuff in muslim literature but can anyone use it to prove anything about our faith in Allah and concepts about Islam? Even they would admit its from human source and not a devinly authored source, so whats the point in bring it here. As with muslims differring on many such humanly writings (how much they may be reflected as pious in Islamic history), there could be many among jews who may or may not agree with this "Jewish holy Talmud". Anyhow, the knowledge about this source is good in its own right, but using it to tell others about jews "true beliefs" is something else that must be avoided in all circumstances. If I am not wrong, Quran talks about "Torah" and not "Talmud". Kindly correct me if I am wrong. Thanks and cheers! 

The Talmud is not part of the Christian Bible (NT) or the Old Testament (OT). The NT only contains five books of OT.

In the second century after Christ, Rabbi Jehuda who, because of the sanctity of his life, was called The Saint, and The Prince, realizing that the learning of the Jews was diminishing, that their oral law was being lost, and that the Jewish people were being dispersed, was the first to consider ways and means of restoring and preserving their oral law. He collected all the lists and charts and from them he made a book, which was called the Sepher Mischnaioth, or Mischnah - a Deuterosis, or secondary law. He divided it into six parts, each of which was divided into many chapters.

The Mischnah is the foundation and the principal part of the whole Talmud. This book was accepted by the Jews everywhere and was recognized as their authentic code of law. However, the ordinary Christians were kept ignorant of its hatred against Gentiles, Jesus and his mother Mary.

Yes, there is a small minority of Jews, known as ‘Torah Jews’, who don’t believe in Talmud – but then they also pray for the destruction of state of Israel.

http://www.nkusa.org/index.cfm

Wa Salaam.

 

So, in the nut shell, is it not the same thing that I analysed it in my above posting? The jewish "oral law", as I understand, is kind of same as it is collection of a'hadith in Islam, though we have extremely rigorous means to authenticate them. So, we now know that this is not an authentic representation of jew's religious views. Moreover, as I saw it last night on PBS channel, there are divisions in Israel as well. Some are secular, liberals, orthodox and some few, as you have stated, the right wing extremists. I also admit that this is my first such documantery that protrayed at least some section of jews as extremists. I also don't rule out the baisness in such a presentation. However, for me the shocking thing was that their (right wing jews) attire was quite similar to those of muslim extremists. They behave and talk much the same language. Their appearences reminded me of such fanatics of my own coutry, so far so even the "skulcap" they were wearing resembles to each other what to talk of their beard size and etc. Oh, I also realize that probably you also used this word "skulcap" to make taboo of some particular faith. That's not fair. However, with all this, I also admire your knowledge of this most "secret" nation, but advise you to take a positive use of it through humbleness. Rest God, I mean Allah, knows the best. Cheers!

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Quote Rehmat Replybullet Posted: 06 April 2005 at 8:22am

Originally posted by AhmadJoyia

....So, in the nut shell, is it not the same thing that I analysed it in my above posting? The jewish "oral law", as I understand, is kind of same as it is collection of a'hadith in Islam, though we have extremely rigorous means to authenticate them. So, we now know that this is not an authentic representation of jew's religious views........so far so even the "skulcap" they were wearing resembles to each other....

No Talmud is NOT Jewish Hadith.

The Talmud is Judaism's holiest book. Its authority takes precedence over the Old Testament in Judaism. Evidence of this may be found in the Talmud itself, Erubin 21b (Soncino edition): My son, be more careful in the observance of the words of the Scribes than in the words of the Torah (Old Testament).

The supremacy of the Talmud over the Bible in the Israeli state may also be seen in the case of the Black Ethiopian Jews. Ethiopians have more knowledge of the Old Testament than the Israelis.

To understand the true nature of Talmud – you should read ‘Jewish History – Jewish Religion’, by late Professor Israel Shahak (an Israeli Jew).

No when I use the word ‘skullcap’ – I don’t use it to degrade someone. It’s a Jewish symbol – as much of religious significance as ‘Cross’ for Christians and ‘Hijab’ for the Muslims.

Humility – Well, everyone has his/her own definition of it. If you mean being ‘an apologetic Muslim’ – then, I am afraid it’s not in my nature. I spent my own time on internet – to refute ‘hoax’ against my religion and not to ‘bring-in’ more sheep.

 

 

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Tomorrow it will be too late
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Quote Shams Zaman Replybullet Posted: 06 April 2005 at 11:44am

My Dear Muslim and Non-Muslim brothers and Sisters! 

Be peace on you all, As Salam o Alikum!

 

We today are living in the world of logic and rationale. Yet, unfortunately we must have ignored a few basic and most important questions regarding our lives. Like:

(1)   What is the purpose of our life?

(2)   If we all have the same purpose then why we are divided in different religions?

(3)   If this worldly life is everything then why there is life and death?

(4)   Who is the creator of this Universe and what does he want from us?

(5)   Which is the true religion and what is thy logic?

 

Let us try to find the answers to these questions and I invite you all to explore them as well.

PURPOSE OF CREATION:   To exactly find the answer to this question we will have to go back to the origin of Human life. Science estimates that human life came to existence about 400,000 years ago while it claims to have discovered the earliest fossils of 40000 years old human.

While the Old Testament or the Torah says life is 10000 years old. So when Torah said this, it’s been almost another 3000 years. This adds the total to 13000 years. I would agree to this and am also of the opinion that the human civilization is not older than 15000 years, and now it is about to complete its age.

Before the Human civilization on earth the Jinns (creation of Fire) used to live. But and once they had turned this earth into hell due to chaos, bloodshed and wars, Allah ordered the angels along with some righteous Jinns to destroy their civilization. Lucifer whom we today call as the devil or the Satan was among the most pious Jinns.

He with his sincerity and dedication earned a very respectable place in heavens and became the head of all the righteous Jinns. Soon he became conceit and proud of himself. Allah who knows even the thoughts in our hearts not only disliked it but also put Lucifer to the test. Allah announced that He is creating a being as his deputy on earth out of clay. So once Allah had created Adam (though without soul) He provided Satan with full opportunity to see and judge the Adam. So once Satan was sure of it that the new creation (of clay) is inferior to him he was satisfied.

Now Allah ordered all angels and Jinns in heaven to bow in front of Adam after He had spelled His sprit in it. Upon this the Lucifer refused to bow on the false pretext of his superiority and creation from fire. He had failed the test.

Allah ordered him to leave the heavens as disgraced and rejected. At this point rather to repent for his arrogance Satan challenged Allah that Adam or the Human civilization is not worthy enough to be given the status of “Deputy (Caliph of Allah).”

The incident is covered in detail at almost six places in Quran. These are:         Sura Baqra-2, verse 30-40,    Sura Araaf-7, verse 11-30,    Sura Bani Israel-17, verse 61-67,    Sura Saad-38, verse 71-85,    Sura Hijar-15, verse 28-43,   Sura Kahaf-18, verse-50,      Sura Taha-20, verse 115-123.

At this point Satan also challenged Allah that he can prove that Human kind is not worthy of the honour which Allah has bestowed upon. So he asked Allah to give him time so as to prove his claim, which Allah granted him.

Now look at his words, in which he challenges, “He (Lucifer) said: As Thou hast caused me to go astray (by putting me to test), I will certainly lie in wait for them in Thy straight path o Then I will certainly come to them from front and from behind and from their right-hand side and from their left-hand side; and Thou shalt not find most of them thankful o” (Sura Araaf-7, verse 16-17).

“He (Lucifer) said: See for thyself: Is this the one whom Thou have honored over me? If Thou grant respite me to the day of resurrection, I will most certainly obliterate (and cast astray) its complete civilization except for very few o” (Sura Bani Israel-17, verse-62).

Adam and eve were then sent to heaven but they were told to stay away from a tree as a test. Satan beguiled them and they disobeyed the commandment of Allah. This event was merely a reminder for rest of the man kind that should not act on the advice of Satan and must not believe in his promises as his only aim is to cast you off the righteous track. That’s the reason we find this incident common to all the three divine religions, Judaism, Christianity and Islam. So we all acknowledge that Satan is our sole enemy.

Thus Brothers and Sisters we have been sent in this world for a test and the result would be simple, those who fail will be rewarded in hell and the successful will soothe in the heavens. The path has been laid down for us now the choice is ours. And anyone who thinks that we will earn a place in heaven without any worship and hardship he has actually fallen in the trap laid down by the Satan. You can’t fetch good grade or position in any exam without extreme hard work and neither can you stay in job without working for full hours.

So how can you expect to land in heaven without any worship or hardship. But majority of humans including Muslims as well have fallen in this trap. So merely believing in Muhammad, Jesus or Moses (May peace be on them all) will not fetch you the salvation.

 

DIFFERENT RELIGIONS:      All human were created from one seed, Adam and Eve. So initially there was one religion and that was to worship one God. Later Satan lured humans off the right path and they started worshiping the seen and distant things like moon, sun, star, idols etc.

Every time humans would go astray, Allah selected His messenger to guide them to the right path and gave them divine revelations. Each time this happened, and time and again Satan would cast them away by motivating them to make alterations in the Holy Scriptures. This continued on till ages until Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) came in this world. But this time Allah Almighty announced that Muhammad is the last messenger and Quran is the last revelation and from now on no messenger will be sent forth.

However what unusual happened this time was that Allah pronounced that no one will have the power or authority to make any alterations in the last revelation “Quran” till the end of this world. So anyone who is interested to find the truth, he can consult it from the Last Testament (Quran). But the struggle between the good and evil continued and is to last till the doomsday.

Now one important question arises here that why all the alliances had to come in existence against Islam or Muslims. Whether it be Balkans, or Chechnya, Kashmir or Palestine, Sudan or Libya, Iraq or Afghanistan. All forces are acting for one purpose alone, ‘TO TARGET ISLAM’. They can’t see a state with Islamic ideology but only with a secular identity. While Islam has no trouble to see the Western style democracy as a form of government. We can see for ourselves as to how multi-religious nations have formed an alliance against Muslims before the coming of anti-Christ or Dajjal (as we call him).

There can only be two possibilities that either all other religions are wrong and Islam is right or either Islam is wrong and all other religions are right.

Surely Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, Christianity and all other religions have altogether contrast teachings and one can easily conclude that who are obeying Allah and who are following Lucifer. And to find out which is the true religion we will have to consult the religious scriptures. And only Quran is in its original form.

If Judaism says that we are the chosen people and whatsoever we do to the Gentiles or Goyims we will not be asked in the hereafter. Well this is an unjust claim and must be rejected as folly of Satan. And if we can’t become Jew then why were we created we never wanted to be treated as animals or live like a third grade citizen? Then is the god of Jews unjust? But the Real and One God is not, and cannot be unjust. So again this is trap of Satan.

If Christianity says that only believing in Jesus (as Son of god) will take you to heaven then Jesus should have been the first one to descent from heavens and all messengers should have delivered the same message. And if he is the son then where is the mother? What about other children? Did god had only one son in ages and why not more? Is this possible that god is one as well as three at the same time? Which is this math by the way 1+1+1=1?

So there is one religion for all to believe in one God and to submit to his commandments since the Prophet Adam. What else exists is the distorted picture of true religion at the hands of Lucifer.

 

IF THIS IS THE ONLY LIFE THEN WHAT LIFE AND DEATH MEANS?     Some people would say that this is the only life and there is nothing in the hereafter. Well then who sends us in this world and where do we go after death?

What comes in us and what go out of us and who controls it?

Why to adhere to ethics and morality them?

The only purpose then should be survival, earn fame, money and good position in the society?

Why the nature is unjust as one is born limbless, blind or poor while other is rich?

We don’t see any loophole in nature then why this injustice in humans?

If one manages to escape justice in his life even after killing hundreds, collecting money through drugs etc then where to seek for justice?

Unfortunately most Muslims have also fallen in the trap set by Lucifer. Most think that Prophet Muhammad (MPBUH) will save them from hell even if they don’t perform the righteous deeds and by merely believing in Muhammad as the last messenger they get license to heaven. The concept seems to be inspired from that of Christians and Jews. Against the teachings of Islam they are divided into sects and everyone is confident that he has the license to heaven and most have indulged in the practice of Shrik (associating partners with Allah). Like some follow the distorted teachings of Sufism while praying to the dead, for some the personal whims and desires have sought top most preference, while others consider nationalism and secularism as superior to Allah and Islam.

So the non-Muslims should not worry, they certainly will find lot of Muslims also burning in the hell alongside them. Bearing Muslim names does not qualify a person for heaven.

Another question arises that is religion a personal affair. Definitely not, will someone insolently pass over his brother’s house on fire just commenting that “Its his personnel affair?” No, he would try to put off that fire. Similarly we must try to save our Muslim and non-Muslim brothers and sisters from entering the hellfire. They are not our enemy rather the Satan is who has mystified them. So please help them in finding the right path as we will be asked that whether we delivered the message or not?    

  

WHO IS CREATOR AND WHAT HE WANTS FROM US?      

Allah our creator and what He wants from us is clearly stated in His last and Final Revelations The Quran. However, in short He wants from us,

  1. Not to associate partners with Him.
  2. Worship Him alone.
  3. Believe in Angels, all His revelations and messengers.
  4. Believe in the Day of Judgment.
  5. Pray 5 times a day, fasting 30 days a month, pay Zakat (charity), perform Hajj once in life time.
  6. Do not kill any innocent, obey your parents, treat others gently and avoid intimate relationship with others except for your legitimate life partner.
  7.  Avoid social evils like adultery, stealing, drinking liquor, gambling etc.
  8.  Struggle for the creation of ideal and peaceful society on Islamic principles progressively using all available means (Preaching, Teaching, Education, Dialogue, Personal example and force if necessary, but not on others for conversion).

 

TRUE RELIGION AND LOGIC:

Why Islam is a true religion:

  1. It is in its purest form and safe from alteration.
  2. Its teachings are the same since Adam.
  3. It provides all the solutions to all existing issues.
  4. It has no contradictions in the divine revelations and is 100% compatible with modern and technology.
  5. It offers solutions as how to achieve the end state by creating an Islamic society.
  6. It offers unique and equal rights within the laid down framework for men, women and even animals. 
  7. It offers a direct contact with God (Allah Almighty) with no intermediates and channels.
  8. It makes sure that all previous divine revelations (Torah, Zaboor, Injeel etc) and all messengers of God should be accepted and believed in.

 

THE MESSAGE STANDS OUT CLEARLY CHOICE IS YOURS.           

Shams Zaman  Pakistan 

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Quote Rehmat Replybullet Posted: 06 April 2005 at 12:14pm

Originally posted by Shams Zaman

....While the Old Testament or the Torah says life is 10000 years old. So when Torah said this, it’s been almost another 3000 years. ......

Before putting my 'two cents worth' - let me say - Well done brother.

However, according to the Old Testament including the New Testament - the World with human life on it - is only 3,800 years old!

Wa Salaam

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No time to waste. Act now!
Tomorrow it will be too late
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Quote AhmadJoyia Replybullet Posted: 07 April 2005 at 7:24am
Originally posted by Shams Zaman

...We today are living in the world of logic and rationale.......

 

PURPOSE OF CREATION:   ..... Science estimates that human life came to existence about 400,000 years ago while it claims to have discovered the earliest fossils of 40000 years old human.

While the Old Testament or the Torah says life is 10000 years old. So when Torah said this, it’s been almost another 3000 years. This adds the total to 13000 years. I would agree to this and am also of the opinion that the human civilization is not older than 15000 years, and now it is about to complete its age.

Where is the logic that your article begged in the very begining to reach this opinion of yours despite the fact you presented that science has shown the evidence of human fossile of 40000 yrs? Also, who told you that the earth is about to complete its age? Very strange reasoning???

Originally posted by Shams Zaman

...Before the Human civilization on earth the Jinns (creation of Fire) used to live. But and once they had turned this earth into hell due to chaos, bloodshed and wars, Allah ordered the angels along with some righteous Jinns to destroy their civilization.

From where you got this story? I mean, what is your source for life of jinns on earth and their mutual wars etc? Though I am not an expert on Quranic studies, but I think I haven't come across any such description anywhere in Quran? Is it from some hadiths that I don't know?

 

Originally posted by Shams Zaman

.........
So once Allah had created Adam (though without soul) He provided Satan with full opportunity to see and judge the Adam. So once Satan was sure of it that the new creation (of clay) is inferior to him he was satisfied.

Again, I don't know from where did this part of story comes to us? Your references to these passages are highly important but none of them tells anything about the above mentioned (bolded and underlined) narrations. Hope we shall stick to the facts from Quran and authentic sunnah only and avoid exaggerations in such narrations by borrowing other details from judeo-christain dogma. Cheers!

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Quote Shams Zaman Replybullet Posted: 12 April 2005 at 11:46am

This is to reply all who have been generous to offer comments on the topic. I had initially said we live in the world of logic and rationale but didn’t offer all the scientific logics because the document would have been too lengthy. As few readers have correctly pointed out. However I would justify as follow.

FOR MUSLIM BROTHERS

As for what Bible (Old Testament) says about Human life, my exact calculations may have gone wrong. However, these were based as follow:

From Adam to Noah = 1056 years, Noah age 950 years, Noah to Abraham = 381 years and Ishaq was born once Abraham was 100. From Jacob to Exodus it counts to   730 years. (Genesis- Ch,5 verse1-32, Ch11, verse10-32, Ch21, verse6, Ch47, verse 28, Ch50, verse 26 and Exodus- Ch 12, verse 37-41). Therefore this total comes to 3117 years (lets round it to 3500). For the period after the exodus covered in Old or New Testament I have not read that. From here I count on history.

Jesus came approx 1500 years after Moses so it totals up to 5000 years. Add another 2000 years it comes to 7000 years. But as to why I would assume that Human Life span is not older than 15000 years, because Quran and Hadith (according to my reading) does not offer any estimates. However, some Muslim scholars who have offered Quranic explanations estimate it to be as such. Well it can’t be claimed for sure.  

However, according to an article published in Newsweek a couple of years ago it mentioned that as per Gospels life is not older than 10000 years. But now I can’t recall that article. As for Human fossil of 30000 B.C you can check it up to agree or disagree at: 

 http://dsc.discovery.com/news/briefs/20040705/longevity.html   

 As to what Mr. Ahmed Joya has objected to the Juedo-Christian myths, sorry there is nothing to cheer as my source remains to be Quran, Sunnah and the Companions of Prophet (mpbuh) Sahabbah.

Jinns inhabitation:  

Narrated by Hazrat Abdullah bin Umer (RA), “2000 years before the birth of Adam Jinns were the inhabitants on earth but due to their bloodshed and fitna (anarchy), Allah sent angels who killed most of them while some took refuge on remote islands and forests.” Quoted by Hazrat Abu Jafar from Ibn-a- Ibe Hatem (RA) written in “The Narrations of Prophets” (Qasas-ul-Anbiya) by Hafiz Imam Ibn-a-Kaseer.  Also narrated by Hazrat Ibn-e-Abbas (RA) real uncle of the Prophet (mpuh) in the same book.

Allah Provided Satan with Full Opportunity.   Narrated in Sahih Muslim and also compiled in Maskaat Volume 3 Chapter Creation of Adam, Hadith no 5457, Hazrat Anas(RA) narrated that, Holy Prophet said, “Once Allah created Adam’s body, He left it in the heaven without casting his sprit for a time of which He knows. Lucifer started circling around to see as what it is? On looking inside, he discovered it to be unsound.”

 

In my opinion its not always necessary that science and logic/ rationale would always go together. Like how animals can sense the natural disasters before hand? What is sprit? Where it rests? Why 30 C dose of Homeopathy works? How specific species evolved into Human? Who are angels? Etc, science has no answers.

So occasionally we will have to use both but sometimes one. If science says there is no God or it believes that what it has found is a fossil of a 40000 years old man, or Humans have evolved from monkeys. I will use my logic or rationale over science. There are numerous reasons due to which I don’t think that life may be as old as 40000 years.

And why the world is about to see its end, not only Quran and Ahadiths clearly foretells it but science also points to the same very direction. The global warming, green house effects, the on going conflicts and threat of nuclear war and melting of ice at the poles, water crisis and diminishing energy reserves etc are the indicators. Holy Prophet had warned that once war over gold (oil/ Black gold) will start the emergence of Anti-Christ or Dajjal will be imminent. There are numerous sites which can give you information regarding major and minor signs of Doomsday. Like:

www.wakeupmuslims.com  

 

FOR NON – MUSLIM BROTHERS.

Dear sister Laurie, I am not offering anyone to change his or her religion. I am presenting a logical picture for The Purpose of creation in the light of Islamic Teachings. If it appeals you or seems to be logical you can accept it and if it doesn’t appeal well we are free to make our choices.

As to how I can prove that Prophet Muhammad (MPBH) was the messenger of God. Well I don’t think I will be able to do that. I can only give it a try. Can you convince a Jew that Jesus (MPBH) was a messenger of God? He will use a blasphemous language, or if someone says as to prove how Jesus was raised up alive? Or how he gave life to the dead by the will of God? I can’t offer any proof but to say that these were the miracles and as God say so, I have no reason for defiance. He has created me and will also raise me alive on the Day of Judgement and he also gave me so much which I may not deserve owing to my abilities. So if you can spare sometime the best would be to download the required articles from:-

http://www.irf.net/irf/download/index.htm

 

However, I can only give it a try.

(1)   Prophet Muhammad was not literate and he could not produce a book at his own.

(2)   He could not have written a book which contains warning notes for him as well.

(3)    How can he have written a book which contains no scientific error till to date and even contains instructions on cloning, Black Hole, Big Bang theories and even indicates towards the incident of 9/11.

(4)   How can he have written a book 1400 years ago of his own which challenges that not a single word of this book can be altered. And till to date it still stands by its challenge.

(5)   Can you name any book which is read so much and even is memorised word by word by more than 30 million Muslims around the world (according to careful estimates).

(6)   Can you name any person who has been so successful in religious, political and ethical form like of Prophet Muhammad? Michel Heart didn’t find a one and has named Prophet Muhammad first place, Albert Einstein second and Prophet Jesus third place in his book “The 100 – A study of Great people since ages.” Similarly Arnold Toynbee in his “Study of History” says that no one could deliver such a concise and detailed message on Human values and rights before Prophet Muhammad’s Last Sermon at Mecca. And there are numerous others as well like Prof. Montgomery Wyatt, Conston Vergil Gorego (Romania) etc.

SUFISM :  I have very little knowledge about Sufism. It is not for me because it requires a lot of sacrifice which I may not be able to offer. Secondly there is a lot more danger of Satan to ride you off the track as you sometimes have to experience some revelations from God. This sometimes may become difficult to contemplate correctly for everyone.

 FREE WILL:   Most of us say that Islam poses lot of restrictions. I always says which religion doesn’t? Like see for yourself the instructions contained in Torah or the Old Testament for Jews and Christians. Please read only two books Exodus chapter 18 – 40 and Leviticus Chapter 1 – 27. How much orders and instructions these contains. I always ask a question that what are the limits of freedom and always one would say these are not unlimited. Like if I say that I want to drive on the wrong side of the road because its my free will? Can I do that? Of course I can but then I will be in Jail. Can I place a loud speaker near my neighbour’s window? Yes at the cost of state punishment. Why because I am infringing the state laws. Whether I like it or not I will have to abide by them or face the consequences. I can enjoy my freedom till I don’t infringe with the rights of other. Similarly, Islam offers you free will till you don’t infringe the rights of God, your parents, your other fellow Muslims and the state. So freedom is always defined within the specified boundaries.

WHAT BIBLE SAYS ABOUT MUHAMMAD

In the Hebrew scripture Muhammad is mentioned by name in the Song of Solomon 5:16. The Hebrew word used there is “Muhammuddim”. The end letters IM is plural of respect majesty and grandeur. Minus "im" the name would be Muhamud translated as "altogether lovely" in the Authorised Version of the Bible or 'The Praised One' 'the one worthy of Praise' i.e. MUHUMMED! (P.B.U.H).

 At other place Bible foretells about a Prophet who will follow Moses:

"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and I will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him." Deuteronomy 18:18

Well if you ask from Christians as to whom does this prophecy refer? Without the slightest hesitation Christians answer: "JESUS!" but "Why Jesus?... his name is not mentioned here.

So they will say that the most important words of this prophecy are(like unto thee), - LIKE YOU - like Moses and Jesus is like Moses because firstly Moses was a JEW and Jesus was also a JEW; secondly, Moses was a PROPHET and Jesus was also a PROPHET - therefore Jesus is like Moses and that is exactly what God had foretold Moses.

But if you ask them that if these are the only two criteria for discovering a candidate for this prophecy of Deuteronomy 18:18, then in that case the criteria could fit any one of the following Biblical personages after Moses like Solomon, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Malachi, John the Baptist etc., because they were also ALL "Jews" as well as "Prophets". Why should we not apply this prophecy to any one of these prophets, and why only to Jesus?

My conclusions are that Jesus is most unlike Moses, and if I am wrong I would like you to correct me.

In the FIRST place Jesus is not like Moses, because, according to Christians belief:- (1)  'Jesus is a god', but Moses is not god.

(2)    'Jesus died for the sins of the world', but Moses did not have to die for the sins of the world.

(3)     'Jesus went to hell for three days', but Moses did not have to go there.

(4)     Moses had a father and a mother. Muhummed also had a father and a mother.   But Jesus had only a mother, and no human father.

(5)     "Moses and Muhummed married and begat children, but Jesus remained a bachelor all his life.

(6)     "Moses and Muhummed were born in the normal, natural way.

(7)      "Moses and Muhummed were accepted as prophets by their people in their very lifetime. While Jesus gained this status almost 200 years after his rising.

(8)    "Moses and Muhummed brought new laws and new regulations for their people.

(9)    "Moses and Muhummed were prophets as well as political leaders of their nations. As regards Jesus he brought no new laws, 'THINK NOT THAT I AM COME TO DESTROY THE LAW, OR THE PROPHETS: I AM NOT COME TO DESTROY, BUT TO FULFIL. FOR VERILY I SAY UNTO YOU, TILL HEAVEN AND EARTH PASS, ONE JOT OR ONE TITLE SHALL IN NO WISE PASS FROM THE LAW, TILL ALL BE FULFILLED.'(Mathew 5:17-18)

(10)Both Moses and Muhummed died natural deaths.

"Therefore Jesus is not like Moses, but Muhummed is like Moses!"    

May Allah guide us all to the truth.

Shams Zaman   Pakistan

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Quote Shams Zaman Replybullet Posted: 12 April 2005 at 12:02pm

Sorry wron comments went on wrong pages. I would request the web master to delete my upper two comments;

 

Its an interesting debate on the Judaism and Christianity. I would like to add that I have lot of love and extreme dislike for the Jews. Most will laugh at it that what kind of a statement is this?  Before elaborating this statement I would to like to give certain historical facts.

Before Muslims the Jews were the sacred people as also narrated by Allah in Sura Bakra (The Cow- 2, verse- 47) “O children of Israel! Recall My favours which I bestowed on you and that I gave you preference over all other nations”.  They are my cousins as we are from the same ancestor Prophet Abraham. Thirdly their lot of religious customs still match with those of Muslims, like slaughter, covering their heads, avoiding pork and wine, observing fast etc. But why I dislike them (not all) because they have destroyed the peace of this world, because their Talmudic teachings preaches that Goyims are just like animals and you can treat them in whatever manner you want. They house Zionist and ultra orthodox Jews who aims to destroy all other nations (morally, economically) and control them physically through coercive methods.

Lot of people will say that the “Protocols of Learned Elders of Zion” are merely conspiracy theories but I won’t buy that idea. If these are conspiracy theories then why everything is happening according to these protocols. The same answer was asked by Mr. Henry Ford in his famous book “The International Jew.”

Talmud is in fact the most sacred book of Jews after Torah. This is the book of Jewish “Fiqah” and the Jewish religious Law as well. So to say that Talmud is not their authentic book is not correct. I can’t say it to a Jew or he will kick me out.

There are deep divisions amongst Jews like of Muslims and Christians. The verses of Sura Al-Imran -3, Verse 105, “And be not like those who have divided themselves into sects after clear orders had come to them, and that these are the people for whom there is grievous chastisement” and Sura Inaam - 6, verse 159, “Surely they, who split their religion into bits and pieces and divided themselves into sects, you have no concern with them; their affair is only with Allah, then He will inform them of what they did” were revealed regarding Jews as by that time only Jews had divided themselves into sects. Now they fit in Muslim and Christian context as well.

The Jews have fought very fiercely among themselves for centuries and a detailed account can be read in the book “Rising Jewish Fundamentalism in Israel” by Israel Shahak and Norton Merzinski. There is yet another branch of Jews with the name of “Naturi Karta” who are opposed to plan of Greater Israel and Zionism. The information on Zionist Jews as to how they rule America can be accessed at following famous sites:

www.alfredlilienthal.com  (a Jewish retired congressman)

www.ifamericansknew.org

www.nkuk.org

 

Dajjal will be a Jewish in origin The Long Awaited Messiah and the time of his emergence seems to be near. An article on “Freemasons the forerunners of Dajjal” can be down loaded from :

www.allaahuakbar.net/free-masons/index.htm

Shams Zaman    Pakistan

smsmzn72@yahoo.com

 

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