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Angel
 
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Quote Angel Replybullet Topic: To Alwardah
    Posted: 08 December 2005 at 7:52pm
Originally posted by Alwardah

Angel

A personal question :- As Allah opened your heart to Islam yet? Just wondered.

 

Thanks once again.

I'm not sure how to answer that.

You see I believe in God and I believe my heart is open to many things, I like aspects of islam but many accepts I don't believe in and there is many contradictions and I have written and posted them and I also don't believe in the qu'ran as God's words, so in a way I guess its no.

~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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Khadija1021
 
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Quote Khadija1021 Replybullet Posted: 09 December 2005 at 6:30pm

Angel, I respect your position and your right to choose what you believe in.  Allah said Islam is not to be forced on others.  I don't now what are the aspects of Islam you do not believe in or what you preceive to be as contradictions.  Maybe I have not read those posts.  But I am interested in what you perception of the Qur'an is.  If it is not "God's words", than what is it?  Would you please elaborate for me your position on this?

PAZ, Khadija 

Say: 'My prayer and my rites, my living and my dying, are for Allah alone, the Lord of all the worlds. (Qur'an, 6:162)
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Angel
 
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Quote Angel Replybullet Posted: 10 December 2005 at 3:23am

I have said much but its kinda at the old forum even my story is there

 

~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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Alwardah
 
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Quote Alwardah Replybullet Posted: 10 December 2005 at 10:09am

Hi Angel

 

I pray I did not offend you by my question.

 

Reading your responses in many threads, I feel you have a much better knowledge and understanding of Islam than I have.

 

Like sister Khadija I also would pose the same question If it is not "God's words", than what is it? 

 

Enlighten us as you did with the Hijab issue.

 

Not by reposting another thread here, but the highlights.

 

Take care

 



Edited by Alwardah
ďVerily your Lord is quick in punishment; yet He is indeed Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful (Surah Al-Aníam 6:165)
"Indeed, we belong to Allah and to Him is our return" (Surah Baqarah 2: 155)
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Angel
 
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Quote Angel Replybullet Posted: 12 December 2005 at 4:53am
Originally posted by Alwardah

If it is not "God's words", than what is it? 

 

What is it?, well its still a book of instructions  one I just don't agree with that it is from God.

 

As I said, there are contradiction and I don't believe God would be contradictory (is that a word?). You cannot have free will and predestination at the same time, you can't say that you have free will between choosing right and wrong and then say all things are predetermined and God guides those whom He wills which with that also disqualifies predestination.

 

The idea of embrology I believe is a mistake in the qu'ran , from my story:

I learnt that the discovery of embryology didnít belong to Muhammed but to Aristotle, Galen and canít remember the other person in the 4th and 5th century and the ancient Egyptians and the romans knew about embryology long before Muhammed, when I was told about it, it didnít sit well with me I knew there was something wrong with it, now I know, in my studies I never came across that point.

 

Even till this day I don't come across it other than what is in qu'ran, which for me disqualifies the qu'ran as the word of God.

 

Here's a post I posted some time ago on some contradiction I find within the quran:

 

Some contradictions I see with the Quíran.

 

I know Iíve touched on this before but when I see the verses about it and leave what people have told me, just concentrate on Godís words (supposedly ?) well I canít help but feel itís just a major conflict and it contradicts, If men are accountable for their actions because men have freewill and but yet Allah guides people/men and all things come from Allah ? How so is men accountable for his actions ? Also you canít have some being saying that it will do this and then turn around and say that another being does ALL instead, as with Satan and Allah. I know I have had someone explain to me about satan and how it works but again Ė God guides whom he wills, definitely a big :-|

And you really canít have freewill and predestination at the same time, itís a contradiction and one disqualifies the other out. You either have free will or predestination. Having free will means having a choice to choose between a numbers of things and ways of doing things and that then you will be accountable for your actions but If you have predestination where your life and path of life is already set and made by God then really you are not accountable for your actions nor do you have freewill to choose as all choices and ways are made for you.

And also predestination disqualifies ĎAllah guides whom he willsí or vice versa, predestinations means everything is set at the beginning and canít not being intervened, while the phrase ĎAllah guides whom he willsí is a situation that happens anytime and changes the course of your path, could be any multiple times throughout, thatís not exactly what I call predestination. 

Wings of the Angels, is it 2 or 4 or 3 pairs, 35:1 or is it 600 as is for Gabriel in Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 54, Number 455 ?

Number of gardens in paradise ? :

One stated in Sura 39:73, 41:30, 57:21, 79:41 or Many  as stated in Sura 18:31, 22:23, 35:33, 78:32

Apparently there is a number of groups of people at Judgement Day?

Thereís suppose to be 3 groups according to Sura 56:7 but other Suras mentions two groups, which is it, 3 or 2 ?

Number of human years equals 1 day for Allah.

1,000 human years (Sura 22:47, 32:5) or 50,000 human years (Sura 70:4)?

At death, you takes the souls of men :

The Angel of Death ? 32:11 or The Angels ? 47:27 or Allah ? as stated ď"It is Allah that takes the souls (of men) at death." 39:42

ALL things come from Allah alone ? so good & evil come from Allah but then Allah only creates good ?

(4:78)   

".... If some good befalls them, they say "This is from Allah". But if evil, they say "This is from thee" (O prophet). Say: "All things are from Allah....."*

Then says,

(4:79)   

"Whatever good, (O man!) happens to thee, is from Allah. But whatever evil happens to thee, is from thyself"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Serve me Ė man serves God because God needs it or we need God ? as stated by God Ďit is You that have the need. ?

(51:56)  

"I have only created Jinns and men, that they may serve me" 

Then says,

(35:15)  

"O mankind! It is you that have need of God: but God is the One Free of all wants, worthy of all praise"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

(4:119-120) 

"I will mislead them, and I will create in them false desires....." (says Satan)  

Then says,

(16:93) 

"If Allah so willed, He could make you all one people. But He leaves straying whom He pleases and He guides whom He pleases ...."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Which to be blamed, men for their wrongs ? or Allah ? as Allah guides or strays all whom he wills, through good and evil ?

(35:8) and other verses; 16:93, 74:31, 2:142

"Allah leaves stray whom He wills and guides whom He wills"

Then says,

(30:9)   

"It was not Allah who wronged them, but they wronged their own souls"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So, can you see my problem with the qurían and reason why I donít believe it to be Godís words for I donít believe God would contradict a book of His, if He has one.

If God is the most intelligent being then this would not be.

 

And then there is the whole apostacy issue, which is posted here on this forum somewhere. I do not believe God would have people killed after 3 days just because they leave a certain path.

 

I certainly don't agree that islam is the one and only religion and true path, I think its egotistic to think that (and I mean no offence here) and I believe God is beyond it and not egotistic.

 

Anyway just some points for you, its my thing and no one elses, so no offence meant and besides, you did ask   



Edited by Angel
~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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Alwardah
 
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Quote Alwardah Replybullet Posted: 12 December 2005 at 9:30am

Thanks Angel for this information.

 

I could respond by posting articles from scholars explaining these issues, but with the amount of research you have done, I am sure you have already read all the explanations.

 

However, I would like to add something here,  regarding the issue about embryology. The Prophet (Sallallahu 'Alayhi wa Sallam) never made any claim that the Glorious Qur'an was a book of sciences. Neither did his companions or the generations after them. So you are correct  when you say: discovery of embryology didnít belong to Muhammed. Absolutely correct.

Later day scientists who started analyzing the verses of the Qur'an found these scientific facts which confirmed that these words were not from Muhammad (Sallallahu 'Alayhi wa Sallam) but from a higher Supreme Being Ė God- Allah. Many of them accepted Islam, due to these facts.

 

The Christians, who accepted or reverted to Islam, always claim that they found too many contradictions in the Bible. Please don't ask me what those contradictions are Ė I have no idea. This is their claim not mine. So can I assume that there is no book from God according to your reasoning and understanding?

 

Thanks for sharing your views with us.



Edited by Alwardah
ďVerily your Lord is quick in punishment; yet He is indeed Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful (Surah Al-Aníam 6:165)
"Indeed, we belong to Allah and to Him is our return" (Surah Baqarah 2: 155)
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