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earth_as_one
 
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Quote earth_as_one Replybullet Posted: 28 December 2005 at 3:52pm

Lorne,

In order for Americans to learn from their mistakes they must first recognize and admit their mistakes.

But I might be wrong
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Whisper
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Quote Whisper Replybullet Posted: 28 December 2005 at 9:27pm

In order for Americans to learn from their mistakes they must first recognize and admit their mistakes.

Only intelligent beings can afford to learn from their mistakes. It's impossible for people living in a delusional you are with us or against us world of created enemies victories, tanks, hammers and nails.

The only way we can now ensure world peace is by disarming the US and keeping her in quarantine for 148 years. Then they may become almost human. And, in that period educating them to the facts of life that the world does exist beyond the dollar and the mere few pluses and minuses.



Edited by Whisper
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kenski70
 
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Quote kenski70 Replybullet Posted: 28 December 2005 at 10:22pm

The only way we can now ensure world peace is by disarming the US and keeping her in quarantine for 148 years

"You can have my gun, when you pry it from my cold dead fingers."

Teddy Roosevelt  US President.



Edited by kenski70
Sorry about that turn signal,I must have fallen asleep.
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earth_as_one
 
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Quote earth_as_one Replybullet Posted: 30 December 2005 at 10:19am

Most Americans have good intentions.  They sincerely believe their leaders want to improve the world rather than line their own pockets.  Unfortunately most Americans are more interested in sports and celebrities, than about informing themselves about boring subjects like American foreign policy.  The few like Kenski who actually take an interest in the world outside the US are usually content swallowing American propaganda which calls itself the news.  Americans like Kenski don't develop their own opinions.  That would require too much effort.  Its far easier for them to get their opinion from their idiot box.  As a result they share a manufactured opinion identical to millions of other Americans.

It is theorectically possible for sheeple like Kenski to break away from the herd, but it requires the individual to make an effort and have an open mind.  In order to resist manipulations he would first have to become aware them.  Reading this book would be helpful:

Manufacturing Consent

by Noam Chomsky

The Political Economy of the Mass Media

A Propaganda Model

The mass media serve as a system for communicating messages and symbols to the general populace. It is their function to amuse, entertain, and inform, and to inculcate individuals with the values, beliefs, and codes of behavior that will integrate them into the institutional structures of the larger society. In a world of concentrated wealth and major conflicts of class interest, to fulfill this role requires systematic propaganda....

http://www.thinkingpeace.com/Lib/lib098.html

Of course, what Chomski wrote isn't new or revolutionary.  Propaganda is as old as language itself.  Consider this interview:

"Nazi leader Hermann Goering, interviewed by Gustave Gilbert during
the Easter recess of the Nuremberg trials, 1946 April 18, quoted in
Gilbert's book 'Nuremberg Diary.'

Goering: Why, of course, the people don't want war. Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece.

Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship.

Gilbert: There is one difference. In a democracy the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars.

Goering: Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the
bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in
any country."

So brainwashing sheeple isn't a new phenomenom.  Technology has changed, but the techniques haven't.  Television amplifies existing propaganda techniques.  It enables fewer people to control the opinions of more people.  The way it works is People form opinions based on what they know.  In America the same people who determine American foreign policy, also control American television and radio and therefore they control what Americans like Kenski know and therefore what they think.  

But now Kenski has strayed from the realm of American controlled media onto a forum where he is exposed to different propaganda.  Now he has seen information which directly conflicts with what he "knows" to be true.  Can thousands of hours of FauxNews programming be undone?  It remains to be seen if his mind is open enough to absorb and process the new information.  Personally I doubt it.  He doesn't seem that bright.

So what will it be Kenski???  Can you enlighten us with an original thought or are you just going to baa-ah-ah like a sheeple?

But I might be wrong
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Servetus
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Quote Servetus Replybullet Posted: 30 December 2005 at 2:36pm

I appreciate good theatre, even theatre of the absurd, which helps when it comes to analyzing politics, and thus I don’t mind the occasional Dis America Pageant, but one has to wonder just how, exactly, that comparatively well informed majority from, say, Canada, Australia, France or Great Britain have managed to escape their opinions being manufactured by the Ted Turners, Conrad Blacks, Rupert Murdochs, Serge Dassaults and other media barons of the (Western) world?  (The question assumes that those countries have so escaped and that to escape is the goal.)

 

Also, if “sadly, what is known by the world remains unknown in the US” be accepted, then why would one post a link to one of the USA's more outspoken dissidents, Noam Chomsky, to make the point?  How could he be expected to know?

 

Serv   



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earth_as_one
 
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Quote earth_as_one Replybullet Posted: 01 January 2006 at 12:30pm

Not all Americans are brainwashed by propaganda.  Millions of Americans can see right through it.  But they are a minority.  But as Goering pointed out, most people are unaware of the programing and their manufactured opinions.  The majority determines who has wealth and power.

The really pathetic thing about American propaganda is that it isn't even very good.  Its effectiveness lies in its overwhelmingness, like a bad commercial repeated over and over.

Outside the US, we are also subjected to propaganda, just less of it and from more divergent sources.... at least for the moment.  I'm sure it won't be long before average Canadians and Europeans become as badly misinformed as average Americans:

http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1406 

Combined with the American government's ability to collect any information about anybody and use it for any purpose.

http://counterpunch.org/hutchinson12202005.html

Americans have to trust

http://www.hereinreality.com/bigbrother.html

the people Bush appointed to manage these new powers only use them to fight a never ending "war on terror".

If these people aren't already doing so, it won't be long before these new powers are used for purely selfish reasons like gaining personal political and business advantages.

Those of you who don't understand the big deal should read George Orwell's 1984

http://www.online-literature.com/orwell/1984/]1984[/URL 

Here are some relevant Orwell quotes:

If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever.

In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.

War against a foreign country only happens when the moneyed classes think they are going to profit from it.

We have now sunk to a depth at which restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men.

Winston could not definitely remember a time when his country had not been at war.

1984 has officially arrived.

Those of you involved in making it happen should consider if this is the future you want.

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."  - Benjamin Franklin  

But I might be wrong
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Quote Whisper Replybullet Posted: 02 January 2006 at 12:48pm

Kenski,

Today, I will sincerely ask your forgiveness for any of my words that may have hurt you. For, it's only today that I came face to face with the actual extent of your disability, pain and hurt.

I deeply felt for the extremely hurt person hiding behind a few moments of his country's glory some 60 odd years ago. I felt for the man who couldn't simply afford to appreciate morality, truth or even the Commandments, but tried to seek life in mere numbers, the stock of hardware and kill counts.

I almost cried for your sadness.

Please forgive me and have a nice 2006.

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Quote Nima Replybullet Posted: 02 January 2006 at 5:57pm

There is nothing that can be said ti quench the sadness in Ms. Sheehan's heart but as I understand the history of her current campaign to "talk to President Bush" I want to say what about the mother's of other soldiers who have lost their sons in battle yet maintain the understanding that War is war and once in war you risk losing a loved one. I've lost many of my friends, and brothers in arms due to battle.

I don't say anything to discredit this lady but it offends me that as a former SEAL who perhaps have done the most dangerous jobs to protect the states from terrorism is that there are others who politicize their emotions using th death of a loved one. Not all of her family is in uniformity over her feelings.

I love how Rami's attitude reflects the general ignorance that some Muslims have regarding the mindset of Americans. The attitude you all say is geared towards our administration but you all make no distinction between your wrath towards Bush or American people. Again, I know what the hell is going on and I don't need someone to tell me that I'm brainwashed because I'm a soldier or because of my political views. You have just as much right to believe as you do as a Muslim now let me have mine. Quite hard not generalizing Muslims here I find the environment hostile here quite different from a university setting.

If you (Rami and Whisper) are Americans and live in America its a shame that I'd have to take a bullet for Muslims who probably think I'm a brainwashed soldier but words are words so you can have them

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