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rami
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Quote rami Replybullet Posted: 07 December 2005 at 12:16am
Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

AJ or Abid since you are new here i will advise you, using multiple user names is not permisable on this forum read the forum guidline. I sugest you nominate one user account and stick to it, you only get three chances to follow the urles or you run the risk of being banned.


I also suggest you tone down your language you will not get much more warning than this.

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Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
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Quote rami Replybullet Posted: 07 December 2005 at 1:27am
Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

if people don't agree with your personal opinions you want to do none other than ruin people.....

Show me word i have said where i am forcing people to follow anything i have said. This is nothing but your own personnel perception based on your current mentality.

if you think your all that, then come and prove that i cannot expose Einstein, seen as though not one of you has even had the balls to do so!!!!!

Analogy:
  1. ·  Similarity in some respects between things that are otherwise dissimilar.
  2. A comparison based on such similarity. See Synonyms at likeness.
What i said was an analogy, einstien has nothing to do with the point, it was a refence to the level of scholarship of fiqh as sunnah in comparison to those he is trying to "correct". This is the reality and not according to my own opinion but of all traditional scholars from all schools of law.

This is an advice take it or leave it it is up to you.

Abid your link did not work so i dont know what you are reffering to there.

Please brother all I ask is for a little leeway, there are (other) outside influences observing these conversations, are they not?

i dont know what you mean by the last part?

i also dont understand why you are asking for leeway i pretty much agreed with much of what you said regarding the state of the muslim Ummah read my last post again.

With regards to the schools of thought you mention, sorry but the words mean nothing to me personally (if you have a problem with that, then sorry). As far as I am concerned, if you are adhering to the five pillars of Islam, then for me, it becomes a question of exactly what La-ilaha-ill-Allah encompasses.

I was offering advice and atempting to explain the situation to you not force anything on you. I asked you to look into the matter further and make up your own mind. Islam has been around for 1400 years do you hounestly think our scholars have not become organised? or do people simply think they make up there own rulings as each scholar likes, this would be utter chaos, further who would check if the scholars opinion is correct or not there would no consistancy in rulings and no Legal system for any islamic state. This is what is ment by four diferent methodologies of how to derive rulings from the Quran and Sunnah it is to ensure the rulings of a scholar is ethical and in accord with the aims and intent of Allah not according to his own desire.

The legal system of the Islamic state has always been one of the four madhhabs, i dont need to force this on any person it is a simple fact you can look up for your self in any islamic history book.

If you have a problem that I carry out my own meditations on this matter, then again I am sorry you feel that way.

please show me what gave you this impression from what i have said.

OK, it is all the fault of the West, and Muslim’s are totally innocent of craving the West’s technology. Brother whether you differ with me or not, the Ummah will unite under Iesa {SAW}, hence if you criticise me for advocating real consensus, then so be it.

it is simple to say that but another to actualy look it up. for the past 500 years the Imperial powers have been plotting the demise of the Islamic state and working towards it, they would send spies for various reasons to create hatred between muslims and even create false religions to split up the muslims. Two example are the Bahai of iran and the Ahmadiyah of india and pakistan there leaders were both british agents.

The image “http://www.npr.org/news/specials/mideast/the_west/ottoman-17century.jpg” cannot be displayed, because it contains errors.

The section in arabia which was not under there control of the Ottoman Khalifah from the 17th centry onwards was taken over by the Saudi family from 1746. This was the last Islamic Khalifah to fall to the Imperial powers, the total islamic empire streched much more than that. all this was one country under one islamic administration.

how can any person assume that a formal Islamic system had not been developed by this time in Muslim history?

If you are unable comprehend that when you perceive a phenomena you are able to recognise it even if the circumstances are different, then please do not project that upon me.

If you personaly want to take this hadith in isolation from all other Islamic knowledge that is your choice i am not forcing anything upon you, Muslims have a tradtional understanding of all ahadith which have been recorded so the proper understanding with in proper context is preserved and known.

Will Islam ever be a success while it is in division? Or is it only a success after Iesa {SAW} has killed the dajjal, and the Ummah is united under one caliph?

This is from the ahadith. muslims will unite and organise to a reasnoble extent so when they are ready as a people to unite together allah will send them the mahdi to unite over. the mahdi will need our support and he will not come until we are ready as a people to work together.

And I agree with what he has said on this particular point, and I agree with his efforts to try and unite the madhhabs. If you wish to throw me out of ‘your fold of Islam’ because of that, then fair enough.

It is recomended that the prayer be prayed as early as possible but it is not an obligation, i dont know of anyone who has ever said that it is nor does it say that in fiqh as sunnah. the permisable time to pray any prayer with the exception of Maghrib and Fajir is from the time of its beginning untill the next prayer begins. Factor in that there are a number of ways to calculate the time for prayer all based on the sunnah of rasul allah ( so you can not simply dismiss any) and you will begin to understand why there are different times to pray the same prayer. This has been the same from the beggining of islam and is not example of sectarian split or something blameworthy to fuss over. If the prayer in the masjid are being delayed for no real reason then certainly you are correct in objecting.

take your this school at that school, and you can shove it where the sun don't shine. everyone has access (if they wish) to the same words, and i am sick of people trying to take away my relationship with Allah.


and all in the name of control!!!!!!!

Your relationship with Allah is yours no one ever sugested otherwise, how you practice the obligatory in islam is defined and not a matter for anyone to make up there own Shariah laws. How will you deal with issues such as Aqeedah, the haram and halal, the personnel Obligatory matters or the communal obligatory matters, Inheritance, zakaat, Fasting, pilgramige, Trade and Business, marriage, Divorce, Prayer and Purification. do you intend to come up with your own rulings on each one?

Each person follows what they wish there is no compulsion in Islam but these things are for us to learn and understand as Allah and his prophet commanded.

Bismillah,

The most important thing is our relationship to Allah, SWT.  This can be strengthened or weakened in many ways.  ISA, your faith grows, and all of us increase in faith and loyalty to Allah, SWT.

Ameen




Edited by rami
Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
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Quote truth Replybullet Posted: 07 December 2005 at 6:38am

Surah 2 – Baqarah, Verse 213

Mankind were one community and Allah sent Prophets with glad tidings and warnings, and with them He sent the Scripture in truth to judge between people in matters wherein they differed. And only those to whom (the Scripture) was given differed concerning it after clear proofs had come unto them through hatred, one to another. Then Allah by His Leave guided those who believed to the truth of that wherein they differed. And Allah guides whom He wills to a Straight Path.




Rami stated:
“Or do people simply think they make up there own rulings as each scholar likes, this would be utter chaos, further who would check if the scholars opinion is correct or not there would no consistancy in rulings and no Legal system for any islamic state. This is what is ment by four diferent methodologies of how to derive rulings from the Quran and Sunnah it is to ensure the rulings of a scholar is ethical and in accord with the aims and intent of Allah not according to his own desire.”



Fair enough, I still don’t know how – four - fits into – one – And you mention ‘utter chaos’, that’s exactly what I feel like is happening when you tell me - there is a consensus, that there is four different consensuses!

Well agree with me or not, if there was a consensus upon one consensus, there is clarity!    



"There shall not cease to remain a single group from my community upon the Truth, victorious; they are unharmed by those who abandon them and those who oppose them. They will remain (in my community and in such a state) until they fight the liar (i.e. the Anti-Christ (Dajjal)." [Reported in Sahih Muslim]

"Verily those before you from among the People of the Book split into seventy-two sects and verily this religion . . . "

" . . . this Ummah will split into seventy-three sects: seventy-two will be in the Fire and one in Paradise and that is the Jamaa'ah."
[Reported by Abu Daawood - Sahih]

"And this Ummah will divide into seventy-three sects all of which except one will go to Hell and they (i.e. the Saved Sect) are those who are upon what I and My Companions are upon (i.e. those who follow My Way and the Way of my Companions.)" [Reported by at-Tirmidhee - Hasan]



I am no longer going to waste my time defending (the rest of) my comments from you, as it is obvious I have nothing in common with the Muslim’s I have met, you don’t comprehend me, and I don’t comprehend you, so what’s the point trying!

Although as a final response to you I would like to mention the fact that, I receive letters every month threatening me with court action and/or the sending of bailiffs to my home (or should I say my parents home), due to some debts that I incurred a few years ago. Hence when you threaten me with ‘the risk of been banned’ from an internet forum, I think it is hilarious, and I suggest you take your pathetic threat and shove it were the sun don’t shine, or alternatively carry it out, because I get the feeling it would be one of the best things that could ever happen to me!!!



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Quote truth Replybullet Posted: 07 December 2005 at 8:52am

Assalaamu alaikum wa rahmatullah



If you will allow me, I will share my contemplations on the four methodologies that have been mentioned…..


The only instance in which four methodologies can exist is in the following scenario:


The Prophet’s (peace and blessings be upon them) were granted wisdom superior to that of their disciples, hence a scenario may exist where Allah {In His Wisdom} separated the disciples so that they could each concentrate on (and hence preserve) a specific aspect/method of their Prophet’s teaching. This would have been necessary (to preserve the completeness of the message) as it is impossible for an individual to attain a state (of closeness to Allah {SWT}) equal to or superior than that of their Messenger.

To incorporate four methodologies into a unified and clear message, there must be a consensus amongst all four parties on each issue that arises, consensus based upon the soundest (ie closest to) example of the Prophet {SAW}. And even then this would only work if those whom found themselves in opposition to the outcome, accepted that their methodology was incorrect on this occasion, and henceforth with a humble heart embraced the correct methodology.


If I may, I would like to ask a question based upon the above


Since the emergence of the four methodologies that have been mentioned, have they

a)     Moved further apart from each other?
b)     Remained at the same distance from each other?
c)     Moved closer to each other?


For surely if the four have been genuine in the manner I have tried to portray, the only outcome that could exist is the merger of the four based upon consensus!?



Finally I wish to say, I want to be humble, merely someone learning….. so I hope you follow the traditional scholar's, you will see that their hearts are humble, Insha Allah.
   

       
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Quote truth Replybullet Posted: 07 December 2005 at 9:00am

and peace be upon you as well shamil


maybe Allah {SWT} will place you in a difficult postion sometime in your life, and maybe it may turn out to be a blessing in disguise!

have your world my friend, it will be taken away from you at some stage, i already have nothing in the world, i choose the eternal


    
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Quote truth Replybullet Posted: 07 December 2005 at 12:04pm

I am sorry it continues to be so difficult for me to remain amongst you, if you want it your way you got it -i'm a down & out easy to abuse!



The Gospel - John


15:12
This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

15:13
     Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

15:14
     Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

15:15
     Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.

15:16
     Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

15:17     
These things I command you, that ye love one another.

15:18
     If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.

15:19
     If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

15:20
     Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.

15:21
     But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me.

15:22
     If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloak for their sin.

15:23
     He that hateth me hateth my Father also.

15:24     
If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father.

15:25
     But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.     

15:26
     But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

15:27
     And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.




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Quote truth Replybullet Posted: 07 December 2005 at 1:28pm

Looking Good



A Zen abbot went dressed in rags to the door of a rich man and was turned away with an empty bowl. So he returned in his formal robe of office and was invited in and served a sumptuous meal.

Removing his robe and folding it, he placed it on front of the feast and departed with the words, "This meal is not for me; it is for the robe."

Zen story



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Quote truth Replybullet Posted: 07 December 2005 at 4:33pm


Rami stated: If you personaly want to take this hadith in isolation from all other Islamic knowledge that is your choice i am not forcing anything upon you, Muslims have a tradtional understanding of all ahadith which have been recorded so the proper understanding with in proper context is preserved and known.



Thank you Rami, for amid all the chaos, I do have a clearer picture of what is expected of me as a Muslim revert, and what is happening with regards to the state of the Ummah.

So as a ‘layperson’ it is not advisable to quote any-old-how from the Qur’an and Ahadith, as Rami has stated, that is best left to the Scholar’s whom have a traditional understanding of them. I am also now aware that the religious leaders have no real say in secular matters, so a person has little choice but to support secular agendas when seeking to earn a living.


I hope this might ease your perplexities, although I hope you are careful not to take from me my personality, for I have seen those who worry something of old might slip out casually, if you want to be my voice, from me nothing flows you are my personality.




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