Now Kenski that is not really accurate, if you read the quran it speaks about the migration of the prophet and the faithful out of Mecca where they were persecuted to Medina where they were greeted warmly, the meccans kept on persecuting and killing the muslims while they were in Medina through raids, so then the quran specifically states at one point "the given permission to fight those who fight you", the meccan pagans lost a battle against the faithful who had now the permission to defend themselves and this enraged them even more so they started forming alliances(the confederacy) against the faithful and at this point it became an obligation for the faithful to fight, simply because if they did not they would be forced to leave their faith or be killed by these intollerant opressors, the Pagan Meccans and their allies who also happened to be christian and jewish tribes, this did not mean all christians and jewish tribes chose to ally with these opressors, this is why in the quran Allah says that it is not forbidden to act justly and kind to those who do not fight the faithful for their faith.

This all happened after the prophet's death and the death of many faithful followers of the prophet by the hands of expansionalist dictators, the majority of muslims stopped fighting the west once the west implemented religious freedom in their nations, simply because this is why the prophet and the faithful fought for too, to be able to practice the faith and call to it without the threat of being persecuted and killed for it. You see the prophet and the faithful faced the same kind of opression from the Pagans and thus they had to fight for their religious freedom.

Do not confuse the faith with the worldly desires of leaders and their esteblishments.

Allah does not give success to the unjust He says in the koran, so once the west implemented religious freedom and some states kept on fighting them they lost and where eventually over powered.

A small point for some of you is that the Ottomans where wrong in fighting the west with guns that use gunpowder, because Allah states in the koran "fight them as they fight you" so the right way would have been that when someone fights you with swords you fight back in the same manner. But ofcourse the Ottomans fought for something other then the faith, but rather for geo political reasons. And thus they lost.

The topic of this string is bogus. It flatters Israel and the US as if Muslims hate them both. Muslims just pity the US for a nmber of reasons, which I am willing to discuss with reasonably educated persons.

The starter of this string is utterly bogus. He needs treatment not responses and statements like:

Now Kenski that is not really accurate, if you read the quran it speaks about the migration of the prophet and the

I believe this is the reason why Europe still hesitates to let Turkey become a member of the EU, because they still pride themselves in the age of The Ottoman Empire, it seems they did not leave that part of colonialism behind them like Europe did and does not really wish to talk about except in educational fashion.