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Conspiracy Theories
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Politics : Conspiracy Theories
Message Icon Topic: why Muslims hate Israel and the US Post Reply Post New Topic
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Quote Community Replybullet Posted: 22 November 2005 at 3:31pm

Originally posted by kenski70

since its inception Islam has been a religion spread by force.

Now Kenski that is not really accurate, if you read the quran it speaks about the migration of the prophet and the faithful out of Mecca where they were persecuted to Medina where they were greeted warmly, the meccans kept on persecuting and killing the muslims while they were in Medina through raids, so then the quran specifically states at one point "the given permission to fight those who fight you", the meccan pagans lost a battle against the faithful who had now the permission to defend themselves and this enraged them even more so they started forming alliances(the confederacy) against the faithful and at this point it became an obligation for the faithful to fight, simply because if they did not they would be forced to leave their faith or be killed by these intollerant opressors, the Pagan Meccans and their allies who also happened to be christian and jewish tribes, this did not mean all christians and jewish tribes chose to ally with these opressors, this is why in the quran Allah says that it is not forbidden to act justly and kind to those who do not fight the faithful for their faith.

Originally posted by kenski70

across Africa and into Spain.the invaders forced the defeated foes to either conform to Islam or die.it was the Seljuk turks invading Greece that prompted pope urban II to launch the crusades.after those were done and Sultan Baibar's took Jerusalem the crusaders were expelled from the area.did that stop the wars? nope the Muslims began invading Europe........ again.taking Constantinople and renaming it Istanbul the constant invasions went on for several hundred years.until gunpowder that is.thats when things began to fall apart for Islamic empires like the Ottomans.

This all happened after the prophet's death and the death of many faithful followers of the prophet by the hands of expansionalist dictators, the majority of muslims stopped fighting the west once the west implemented religious freedom in their nations, simply because this is why the prophet and the faithful fought for too, to be able to practice the faith and call to it without the threat of being persecuted and killed for it. You see the prophet and the faithful faced the same kind of opression from the Pagans and thus they had to fight for their religious freedom.

Do not confuse the faith with the worldly desires of leaders and their esteblishments.

 



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Quote Community Replybullet Posted: 22 November 2005 at 3:37pm
The first use of gunpowder in a war between the east and Europe was done by the Ottomans, they conquered constantinople with the use of gunpowder. The west did not have such weapons yet.
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Quote Community Replybullet Posted: 22 November 2005 at 3:49pm

Allah does not give success to the unjust He says in the koran, so once the west implemented religious freedom and some states kept on fighting them they lost and where eventually over powered.

A small point for some of you is that the Ottomans where wrong in fighting the west with guns that use gunpowder, because Allah states in the koran "fight them as they fight you" so the right way would have been that when someone fights you with swords you fight back in the same manner. But ofcourse the Ottomans fought for something other then the faith, but rather for geo political reasons. And thus they lost.

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Quote Whisper Replybullet Posted: 22 November 2005 at 10:59pm

Community, we are trying to establish peace here. But your statements are not conducive for Peace. You state

But ofcourse the Ottomans fought for something other then the faith, but rather for geo political reasons. And thus they lost.

As if the other bastards were fighting for something higher + greater than the geo political reasons?

Turkey was attacked by 11 vultures under whatever pretext. Are you trying to tell us that the Turks should not have responded to the attack and just laid down and enjoyed being occupied?

Kindly explain what you are trying to tell us here.

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Quote Whisper Replybullet Posted: 22 November 2005 at 11:03pm

The topic of this string is bogus. It flatters Israel and the US as if Muslims hate them both. Muslims just pity the US for a nmber of reasons, which I am willing to discuss with reasonably educated persons.

The starter of this string is utterly bogus. He needs treatment not responses and statements like:

Now Kenski that is not really accurate, if you read the quran it speaks about the migration of the prophet and the

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Quote Community Replybullet Posted: 22 November 2005 at 11:35pm
Originally posted by Whisper

Community, we are trying to establish peace here. But your statements are not conducive for Peace. You state

But ofcourse the Ottomans fought for something other then the faith, but rather for geo political reasons. And thus they lost.

As if the other bastards were fighting for something higher + greater than the geo political reasons?

Turkey was attacked by 11 vultures under whatever pretext. Are you trying to tell us that the Turks should not have responded to the attack and just laid down and enjoyed being occupied?

Kindly explain what you are trying to tell us here.

I will explain, The Ottomans persisted in fighting the west even after the west esteblished religious freedom in their nations, Turkey was never occupied to my knowledge but their dreams of expansion in europe came to an end. And afterwards the states they occupied where taken away from them by western powers. That is all i am saying.

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Quote Community Replybullet Posted: 22 November 2005 at 11:40pm

I believe this is the reason why Europe still hesitates to let Turkey become a member of the EU, because they still pride themselves in the age of The Ottoman Empire, it seems they did not leave that part of colonialism behind them like Europe did and does not really wish to talk about except in educational fashion.

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Quote Whisper Replybullet Posted: 23 November 2005 at 6:35am

Turkey was attacked and occupied. Kemal Ata Turk started from an area as small as Ankara. Turkey fought for its freedom like anything.

Just need to understand what the Muslims should do when they are attacked fro geo-political reasons? Just sit back and invite the inavader to candle lit dinners?

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