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islamispeace
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Quote islamispeace Replybullet Posted: 15 August 2014 at 10:12am
Originally posted by Ron Webb

No, not all atheists are humanists.  Unfortunately.


And not all religious people believe in killing in the name of their religion.  What a coincidence!  Wink

Originally posted by Ron Webb

As I keep telling you, there are good and bad people in every group.  Atheism is no exception.  However, none of the mass murderers you mentioned committed their crimes because of, or in the name of, atheism.  That's the difference.  We have no ideology that tells us to kill believers wherever we find them.


LOL Your fake attempts to tell people what the Quran says are not going to fool anyone.  Your reference to Surah Tawba only further proves how *****ic and ignorant your are. 

As far as atheists like Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot, they were all influenced by Karl Marx and the "Communist Manifesto", which among other things, declared religion to be part of the problem.  Therefore, it was part of their ideology to be anti-religion, and which drove their pogroms against religious people.  For example, Pol Pot persecuted any group which was a "detriment" to the "party", and he included religious groups in that list.  According to Cory Campbell of the "Haing S. Ngor Foundation":

"Pol Pot knew what he was doing all along, playing quite the contrary to his later claims of ignorance regarding the killings and suffering.  The Constitution of Democratic Kampuchea declared freedom of religion in the state, with the exception of any form of worship 'detrimental' to the party.   Without clearly defining what classifies a religion  as being 'detrimental', Pol Pot was able to use this constitutional clause to justify the purge of religions such as Buddhism and Islam." (http://www.haingngorfoundation.org/_documents/BetweenTheLinesOfThePolPotRegime.pdf)

Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

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Quote Ron Webb Replybullet Posted: 17 August 2014 at 10:17am
Originally posted by islamispeace

As far as atheists like Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot, they were all influenced by Karl Marx and the "Communist Manifesto", which among other things, declared religion to be part of the problem.  Therefore, it was part of their ideology to be anti-religion, and which drove their pogroms against religious people.

Yes, they were partly influenced by Marx, who saw religion as part of the problem.  Therefore religion was part of a part of their ideology.  It was by no means the main focus.  Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot were communists primarily engaged in a class struggle, not a religious one.  As I said earlier, none of them committed their crimes because of, or in the name of, atheism.

Be afraid of communism if you want, but not atheism.  Most atheists are not communist.  I'm certainly not.

...According to Cory Campbell of the "Haing S. Ngor Foundation":

LOL Seriously?  Seriously? Now you're citing a term paper from an undergrad college student as your "source"?
"EDITORS NOTE: Cory Campbell is a 21 year old history major in his first semester at Cal State Long Beach. He spent three years prior to this at Cypress College. Cory wrote this paper for a Methodology of History course (HIST 301, Fall 2007)."

It's especially amusing that Mr. Campbell spent three years at Cypress College, which describes itself as a two year college.  Sounds like a real honours student! Tongue
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islamispeace
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Quote islamispeace Replybullet Posted: 17 August 2014 at 11:14am
Originally posted by Ron Webb

Yes, they were partly influenced by Marx, who saw religion as part of the problem.  Therefore religion was part of a part of their ideology.  It was by no means the main focus.  Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot were communists primarily engaged in a class struggle, not a religious one.  As I said earlier, none of them committed their crimes because of, or in the name of, atheism.

Be afraid of communism if you want, but not atheism.  Most atheists are not communist.  I'm certainly not.


What a load of crock!  Each of these tyrants went out of his way to "purge" anyone who was seen as a "detriment" to the "revolution".  Among these were people with religious beliefs.  Anyone who refused to abandon his religious beliefs was either imprisoned or killed.  This was all in the name of atheism. 

Originally posted by Ron Webb

LOL Seriously?  Seriously? Now you're citing a term paper from an undergrad college student as your "source"?
"EDITORS NOTE: Cory Campbell is a 21 year old history major in his first semester at Cal State Long Beach. He spent three years prior to this at Cypress College. Cory wrote this paper for a Methodology of History course (HIST 301, Fall 2007)."

It's especially amusing that Mr. Campbell spent three years at Cypress College, which describes itself as a two year college.  Sounds like a real honours student! Tongue
  

LOLLOLLOL Really, Ron?  I mean, really?  You can't refute the claims of someone, so you attack their credentials?  Brilliant! 

If a foundation founded by a survivor of the Cambodian genocide felt that this paper written by an "undergrad college student" is factually accurate, then who cares what some atheist clown thinks?  Big%20smile

Of course, a biased nincompoop such as yourself simply rejected the claims of this "undergrad" without bothering to even check if the paper's claims are accurate.  How very objective of you!  One way to check the paper's accuracy is to check the sources used by the author.  For example, in his statement about Pol Pot and the purging of religion, Campbell cited the work of "award-winning journalist Elizabeth Becker" (http://www.amazon.com/When-The-War-Was-Over/dp/1891620002). 

For shame, Ron!  Hang your head in shame! Embarrassed

But if that is not enough for you, let me quote another author.  Harry Callahan writes in "The Dawkins' Delusion" (a delusion which you are definitely suffering from Wink):

"Pol Pot, the leader of the Marxist regime in Cambodia, Kampuchea, in the 1970s killed 1.7 million of his own people.  In fact, the Pol Pot regime specifically preached atheism and sought to exterminate all religious expression in Cambodia." ("The Dawkins' Delusion, p. 161)

So, anyone not blinded by atheistic propaganda knows that it is a fact of history that millions have been killed in the name of atheism.  Atheistic apologist clowns like yourself can try to rewrite history, but you will ultimately fail and be exposed for the lying filth that you are...Dead


Edited by islamispeace - 17 August 2014 at 12:10pm
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

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Quote Ron Webb Replybullet Posted: 18 August 2014 at 8:49pm
Originally posted by islamispeace

What a load of crock!  Each of these tyrants went out of his way to "purge" anyone who was seen as a "detriment" to the "revolution".  Among these were people with religious beliefs.  Anyone who refused to abandon his religious beliefs was either imprisoned or killed.  This was all in the name of atheism.

You just said it yourself: the goal was to purge anyone who was a detriment to the (communist) revolution.  Various religious, ethnic, regional and social groups opposed them, so they purged them.  But the goal had nothing to do with religion.  It was done in the name of communism, not atheism.

Of course, a biased nincompoop such as yourself simply rejected the claims of this "undergrad" without bothering to even check if the paper's claims are accurate.  How very objective of you!

I didn't reject the claim.  I just ignored it because it doesn't address my point.  See above.

But if that is not enough for you, let me quote another author.  Harry Callahan writes in "The Dawkins' Delusion" (a delusion which you are definitely suffering from):

So now we've moved on from student term papers to self-published "vanity" books from unknown authors?  Do you have any idea who Harry Callahan is, or what his credentials are?  For that matter, do you have any idea what constitutes a credible source?

Edited by Ron Webb - 18 August 2014 at 8:50pm
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Quote islamispeace Replybullet Posted: 18 August 2014 at 9:06pm
Originally posted by Ron Webb

You just said it yourself: the goal was to purge anyone who was a detriment to the (communist) revolution.  Various religious, ethnic, regional and social groups opposed them, so they purged them.  But the goal had nothing to do with religion.  It was done in the name of communism, not atheism.


LOL And the "revolutionaries" preached atheism.  Hence, religion was a threat to them and so they proceeded to kill millions as a result.  So much for "humanism".

Originally posted by Ron Webb

I didn't reject the claim.  I just ignored it because it doesn't address my point.  See above.


You "ignored" it based on nothing except a childish claim against the credentials of the author.  Your "point" was refuted, yet instead of offering an intelligent response, you tried to weasel your way out by ignoring the argument and attacking the author. 

As I said, who cares what some atheist clown thinks? Big%20smile

Originally posted by Ron Webb

So now we've moved on from student term papers to self-published "vanity" books from unknown authors?  Do you have any idea who Harry Callahan is, or what his credentials are?  For that matter, do you have any idea what constitutes a credible source?


So again, no intelligent response, just an attack on the credentials of the author.  Very impressive! 

We have already seen that the Pol Pot regime aggressively promoted and preaches atheism and violently killed anyone who opposed it, especially people with religious beliefs. 

The lie that atheist clowns promote has been proven wrong through an honest analysis of history.  I guess atheists can be just as delusional as anyone else! Wink


Edited by islamispeace - 18 August 2014 at 9:07pm
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

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Quote Ron Webb Replybullet Posted: 19 August 2014 at 9:27pm
Originally posted by islamispeace

As I said, who cares what some atheist clown thinks?

An excellent question.  It's a lot like the question I am asking about Cory Campbell and Harry Callahan.

We have already seen that the Pol Pot regime aggressively promoted and preaches atheism and violently killed anyone who opposed it, especially people with religious beliefs.

Not "especially" people with religious beliefs.  That among many other things: "The Khmer Rouge, in their attempt to socially engineer a classless peasant society, took particular aim at intellectuals, city residents, ethnic Vietnamese, civil servants and religious leaders."  http://www.history.com/topics/pol-pot

Interestingly, your own "source", Cory Campbell, quotes the Khmer Rouge's attitude toward religion, according to the Kampuchean Constitution: "Article 20: Every citizen of Kampuchea has the right to worship according to any religion and the right not to worship according to any religion.  Reactionary religions which are detrimental to Democratic Kampuchea and Kampuchean people are absolutely forbidden."

So, Pol Pot forbade any religion that opposed his regime -- which, as it turned out, was probably most/all of them, but only because they opposed communism.  Communism, not atheism, was the goal.

Edited by Ron Webb - 19 August 2014 at 9:28pm
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islamispeace
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Quote islamispeace Replybullet Posted: 20 August 2014 at 9:15am
Originally posted by Ron Webb

An excellent question.  It's a lot like the question I am asking about Cory Campbell and Harry Callahan.


LOL I bet you would, because after all, you are just an atheist clown!  You have yet to offer a substantive rebuttal to the sources I have mentioned.  All you have been able to do is to attack their credentials, as if you have any authority on the matter.  Wink 

The fact remains that Campbell's article was published by an organization founded by a survivor of the Cambodian genocide, who experienced first-hand the brutality of the Pol Pot regime.

Originally posted by Ron Webb

Not "especially" people with religious beliefs.  That among many other things: "The Khmer Rouge, in their attempt to socially engineer a classless peasant society, took particular aim at intellectuals, city residents, ethnic Vietnamese, civil servants and religious leaders."  http://www.history.com/topics/pol-pot

Interestingly, your own "source", Cory Campbell, quotes the Khmer Rouge's attitude toward religion, according to the Kampuchean Constitution: "Article 20: Every citizen of Kampuchea has the right to worship according to any religion and the right not to worship according to any religion.  Reactionary religions which are detrimental to Democratic Kampuchea and Kampuchean people are absolutely forbidden."

So, Pol Pot forbade any religion that opposed his regime -- which, as it turned out, was probably most/all of them, but only because they opposed communism.  Communism, not atheism, was the goal.


Oh what a coincidence!  Pol Pot just happens to preach atheism.  And it just so happened that "most/all" religions "turned out" to "oppose his regime".  Finally, it just so happened that Pol Pot proceeded to wipe out (or tried to) all religious practice.  Mighty convenient, don't you think?  Shocked

Communism and atheism go hand in hand.  It's no surprise that every Communist "revolution" has attempted, one way or another, to "purge" religion and kill millions in the process.
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

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Quote Ron Webb Replybullet Posted: 22 August 2014 at 10:02am
Originally posted by islamispeace

I bet you would, because after all, you are just an atheist clown!  You have yet to offer a substantive rebuttal to the sources I have mentioned.

Because I don't substantively disagree with them, and I don't see how they support your argument.  I just find it amusing that you would think they are worth quoting.
 
Oh what a coincidence!  Pol Pot just happens to preach atheism.  And it just so happened that "most/all" religions "turned out" to "oppose his regime".  Finally, it just so happened that Pol Pot proceeded to wipe out (or tried to) all religious practice.  Mighty convenient, don't you think?

Pol Pot was probably atheist, but when did he "preach" atheism?  Yes, most religious leaders opposed him, but so did most intellectuals, most urbanites, most/all Vietnamese, etc.  Basically anyone with a brain or a backbone.

Communism and atheism go hand in hand.

How odd, then, that none of my atheist friends are communist.  How odd that the US Constitution (and can you get any more capitalist than that?) is entirely atheist.

It's no surprise that every Communist "revolution" has attempted, one way or another, to "purge" religion and kill millions in the process.

Yes, communism is bad.  So is fascism.  So is any kind of extremism or totalitarianism, including religious fundamentalism.  But I don't think there has ever been a revolution whose main goal was to promote atheism.  As I said, as atheists we just don't care that much about your mythology, as long as you keep it to yourself and don't try to force it on us.
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