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Interfaith Dialogue
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Message Icon Topic: Will Muslims accept Jesus as thier saviour. Post Reply Post New Topic
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Power of GOD
 
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Quote Power of GOD Replybullet Posted: 27 July 2014 at 3:33pm
Originally posted by NABA

Assalamalecum,No, we muslims accept Jesus Christ (pbuh) as prophet of Allah, Jesus Christ (pbuh) was muslim (ch 3 v 52 of Quran).

If the Qur’an is correct, then Jesus converted at least some of the children of Israel to Islam. Though there is absolutely no historical evidence for any such conversions, let us assume for the sake of argument that there were first century Jews who believed the message of Jesus and became Muslims. As we shall see, this assumption only presents problems for Muslim apologists.

 If there were first-century Jews who converted to Islam at the preaching of Jesus, they didn’t last very long. The idea that Jesus’ earliest followers were Muslims raises an obvious question: Why have we never heard of any Muslims existing in the first century? We have a great deal of historical information about Jesus’ first-century followers, but we have no evidence at all of any Muslims. Defenders of Islam will most likely claim here that Christianity wiped out all the records of Jesus’ non-Christian followers, but such a view is absurd. We have both Christian and non-Christian sources that report early Christian beliefs, yet none of these sources mention the existence of any Muslim-Christians. At the very least, we can say with absolute certainty that Jesus’ death was well-known among ancient authorities, and that Jesus’ earliest followers—including Peter, James, and John—came to believe that Jesus had died on the cross for their sins and that he had risen from the dead. (We also know that the disciples held Jesus to be the divine Son of God, but this isn’t necessary for my argument.) All four New Testament Gospels confirm the early Christian belief in Jesus’ death and resurrection, as does the book of Acts. Paul’s letters also repeatedly proclaim Jesus’ death and resurrection. Further, an ancient creed recorded in 1 Corinthians 15 has been dated to within a few years of Jesus’ life and therefore provides extremely early testimony about Christian beliefs during the time of the apostles. It reads:
For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that He appeared to Cephas [Peter], then to the twelve.

We also have early Christian writings from outside the New Testament that report the beliefs of Jesus’ followers. For instance, Clement of Rome, who was ordained as Bishop of Rome by the Apostle Peter, writes about the apostles’ belief in Jesus’ resurrection from the dead. Polycarp, who was ordained by the Apostle John, mentions Jesus’ resurrection numerous times. There are even several ancient non-Christian sources that report crucial information about Jesus and the apostles. According to both the Jewish historian Josephus and the Roman historian Tacitus, Jesus was crucified during the reign of Pontius Pilate. Lucian of Samosata, a Greek satirist, states, “The Christians, you know, worship a man to this day—the distinguished personage who introduced their novel rites, and was crucified on that account.” Even the Jewish Talmud reports the crucifixion of Jesus.

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Ron Webb
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Quote Ron Webb Replybullet Posted: 28 July 2014 at 7:15pm
Originally posted by islamispeace

What did the "People of the Book" have to believe in order to achieve salvation???  Islam!!!

This beginning to look like wilful ignorance.  If you are reading the verses in context, as you claimed, and if you quoted verse 65, then surely you must have also read the one that follows (5:66):
"If they had observed the Torah and the Gospel and that which was revealed unto them from their Lord, they would surely have been nourished from above them and from beneath their feet."

So, what they had to believe was not "Allah", or at least not the Muslim concept of Allah.  They had to believe the Jewish and Christian scriptures.
Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.
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Quote islamispeace Replybullet Posted: 30 July 2014 at 2:57pm
Originally posted by Ron Webb

Originally posted by islamispeace

What did the "People of the Book" have to believe in order to achieve salvation???  Islam!!!

This beginning to look like wilful ignorance.  If you are reading the verses in context, as you claimed, and if you quoted verse 65, then surely you must have also read the one that follows (5:66):
"If they had observed the Torah and the Gospel and that which was revealed unto them from their Lord, they would surely have been nourished from above them and from beneath their feet."

So, what they had to believe was not "Allah", or at least not the Muslim concept of Allah.  They had to believe the Jewish and Christian scriptures.


LOLLOLLOL The fake Sheik still doesn't realize how dumb and ignorant he is!

You are such a deluded i-d-i-o-t that you don't even realize that the verse you are (mis)quoting actually contradicts your claim.  The phrase "...and that which was revealed unto them..." is not a reference to the Torah and the Gospel but to the Quran!  In other words, the verse stipulates that a true believer accepts ALL revelations from Allah (Glorified and Exalted be He), not just some. 

Furthermore, the Quran states elsewhere that the Jews and Christians had both NOT believed in the TRUE Torah and Gospel anyway, because they had changed both books and forgotten the true message:

"Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say: "This is from Allah," to traffic with it for miserable price!- Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby." (Surah Al-Baqarah, 2:79)

"There is among them a section who distort the Book with their tongues: (As they read) you would think it is a part of the Book, but it is no part of the Book; and they say, "That is from Allah," but it is not from Allah: It is they who tell a lie against Allah, and (well) they know it!" (Surah Al-Imran, 3:78)


"Willful ignorance", indeed!  Big%20smile 


Edited by islamispeace - 30 July 2014 at 2:58pm
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 31 July 2014 at 3:40am
Ron I think you should stop right here and don't say another word!
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Quote Ron Webb Replybullet Posted: 01 August 2014 at 3:32pm
Originally posted by islamispeace

The phrase "...and that which was revealed unto them..." is not a reference to the Torah and the Gospel but to the Quran!

How is that even possible?  The Quran didn't even exist when Judaism and Christianity were established.  Everybody knows that the Torah was revealed to the Jews, the Gospel was revealed to the Christians, and the Quran was revealed to the Arabs.

Furthermore, the Quran states elsewhere that the Jews and Christians had both NOT believed in the TRUE Torah and Gospel anyway, because they had changed both books and forgotten the true message:

That's as may be, but the fact is that you can't call yourself a Jew or a Christian if you believe in the Quran.  It's nonsense to say that the Jews and the Christians have nothing to fear, if you then qualify it by saying, "oh, but only if they reject the core teachings of Judaism and Christianity and accept the teachings of the Quran."
Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.
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Quote thuwn Replybullet Posted: 01 August 2014 at 4:35pm
Originally posted by Power of GOD

Will muslims accept Jesus as thier saviour when he apears on the clouds now.

I opt for these:

David Copperfield, Penn and Teller, Criss Angel, Lance Burton, and the latest in the list is Dynamo, and many others. At least I have seen what they capable of, not just stories after stories.
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Quote islamispeace Replybullet Posted: 01 August 2014 at 5:45pm
Originally posted by Ron Webb

How is that even possible?  The Quran didn't even exist when Judaism and Christianity were established.  Everybody knows that the Torah was revealed to the Jews, the Gospel was revealed to the Christians, and the Quran was revealed to the Arabs.


LOL Um dummy, the verse is referring to Jews and Christians in the time of the revelation of the Quran.  It is stating that had they been true believers, they would have accepted the Quran.  In fact, is several places, it refers to those Jews and Christians, who upon hearing the verses of the Quran, did indeed believe, because they recognized it as revelation from God:

"And there are, certainly, among the People of the Book, those who believe in Allah, in the revelation to you, and in the revelation to them, bowing in humility to Allah: They will not sell the Signs of Allah for a miserable gain! For them is a reward with their Lord, and Allah is swift in account." (Surah Al-Imran, 3:199) 


Originally posted by Ron Webb

That's as may be, but the fact is that you can't call yourself a Jew or a Christian if you believe in the Quran.  It's nonsense to say that the Jews and the Christians have nothing to fear, if you then qualify it by saying, "oh, but only if they reject the core teachings of Judaism and Christianity and accept the teachings of the Quran."


Again, we see your ignorance showing.  The Quran states that the previous prophets were all Muslims, since they believed in Allah (Glorified and Exalted be He).  Hence, the "Jews" and "Christians" (i.e. the followers of the previous prophets like Moses and Jesus) were all Muslims as well. 
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 01 August 2014 at 6:05pm
Originally posted by islamispeace

The Quran states that the previous prophets were all Muslims...

Greetings islamispeace,

Strange then, don't you think, that never once, in any record, did any prophet refer to themselves or their followers as 'muslim'?

Don't you suppose Yshwe would have called Himself muslim, not Jew?

asalaam.


Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
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