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Interfaith Dialogue
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : Religion - Islam : Interfaith Dialogue
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Ron Webb
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Quote Ron Webb Replybullet Topic: Why would anyone believe him?
    Posted: 29 June 2014 at 7:52am
Here is what it all comes down to for me:

A guy comes out of a cave and announces, "Guess what?  I've just been talking to God!  He says I am His prophet and everyone has to do exactly what I say."  (How convenient! Wink)

Why would anyone believe him?
Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.
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Lachi
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Quote Lachi Replybullet Posted: 29 June 2014 at 8:17am
Possibly because he wrote it down. Writing was a form of magic that few could achieve. Arabs were jealous of the 'books' that Christians and Jews had. Producing one of his own that claimed to be superior to them was a real coup. Even today the Muslims venerate every Quran as the written word of Allah - as an object in itself, even down to the very pages and words. Tearing a page from a Quran is sacrilege, although it is just a man made object. The book is imbued with a holiness much akin to idolatry.

Even the Quranic Arabic used is held as 'holy', hence Allah can only hear your prayers and submission if performed in proper Arabic (as if the Almighty God is unable to understand other languages or read the intent in the heart). It all smacks of pagan magic and Kabbalah to me.

Alternatively - Mohammed was a true Prophet of Allah, and Allah's truth was self evident to those who heard with an open heart and mind.
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islamispeace
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Quote islamispeace Replybullet Posted: 29 June 2014 at 11:40am
Originally posted by Ron Webb

Here is what it all comes down to for me:

A guy comes out of a cave and announces, "Guess what?  I've just been talking to God!  He says I am His prophet and everyone has to do exactly what I say."  (How convenient! Wink)

Why would anyone believe him?


LOL What a brilliant analysis, Ron!

Of course, through your rather simplistic approach, you overlooked some important things to consider.

First, many people did believe him!  So, already your point is pointless.  Big%20smile

Second, you failed to consider what possible motive Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) had to make up his experience.  Since you obviously don't believe that Muhammad (peace be upon him) was chosen by God, then please enlighten us as to what motivated him to make such an extraordinary claim.  What was he trying to achieve?  Wealth?  Power?  Influence?  And why, if he made everything up, did he choose to suffer for his convictions?  As we all know, the reaction of the pagan elites was one of persecution and eventually violence against Muhammad (peace be upon him) and his followers.  Can you explain why a supposed impostor decided to suffer for something he knew was false?  Do tell!   

And by the way, Ron, no one really cares if you don't believe the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)!  You are not doing us any favors by believing.  It's your loss, pal!


Edited by islamispeace - 29 June 2014 at 11:53am
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

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Abu Loren
 
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 30 June 2014 at 3:50am
I've stopped engaging with this clown a long time ago. I lost count of the number of times I had to call him names I lost my temper and lost control.
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Ron Webb
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Quote Ron Webb Replybullet Posted: 01 July 2014 at 7:05am
Originally posted by islamispeace

First, many people did believe him!  So, already your point is pointless.

Many people believed (the Christian version of) Jesus too.  And Buddha.  And Lao-Tzu.  And Joseph Smith.  And L. Ron Hubbard.  Why don't you believe any of them?
 
Second, you failed to consider what possible motive Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) had to make up his experience.  Since you obviously don't believe that Muhammad (peace be upon him) was chosen by God, then please enlighten us as to what motivated him to make such an extraordinary claim.  What was he trying to achieve?  Wealth?  Power?  Influence?

All of the above.  Or maybe he was just crazy.  I dunno, lots of people claim that God talks to them.  Should we believe all of them?

And why, if he made everything up, did he choose to suffer for his convictions?  As we all know, the reaction of the pagan elites was one of persecution and eventually violence against Muhammad (peace be upon him) and his followers.  Can you explain why a supposed impostor decided to suffer for something he knew was false?  Do tell!

For any or all of the aforementioned reasons.  Plus, once he started down that road, what choice did he have?  How you think he would have been treated if he had recanted?
Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.
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Ron Webb
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Quote Ron Webb Replybullet Posted: 01 July 2014 at 7:10am
Originally posted by Abu Loren

I've stopped engaging with this clown a long time ago. I lost count of the number of times I had to call him names I lost my temper and lost control.

(Not to mention, lost the argument. Tongue)
Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.
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abuayisha
 
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Quote abuayisha Replybullet Posted: 01 July 2014 at 11:57am
Originally posted by Ron Webb

  Or maybe he was just crazy. 


For someone so very adapt at mockery of religion, and displaying a proud embrace of rationalism, along with a heaping dose of hubris, what is to be gained by insulting our religion? You don't believe in our Prophet, ok fine, but to use such inflammatory language is truly unnecessary, and surely you're intelligent enough to know this. Did you start this thread intending to use this type of language as dialogue? "Why would anyone believe him" was obviously a rhetorical question having no intent for discussion, but an opportunity for further insult and polarization.
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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 01 July 2014 at 2:37pm
Originally posted by abuayisha

Originally posted by Ron Webb

  Or maybe he was just crazy. 


For someone so very adapt at mockery of religion, and displaying a proud embrace of rationalism, along with a heaping dose of hubris, what is to be gained by insulting our religion? You don't believe in our Prophet, ok fine, but to use such inflammatory language is truly unnecessary, and surely you're intelligent enough to know this. Did you start this thread intending to use this type of language as dialogue? "Why would anyone believe him" was obviously a rhetorical question having no intent for discussion, but an opportunity for further insult and polarization.

Greetings abuayisha,

I actually don't think Ron's comment was meant as a mockery or to be rude, but just a statement of one possible fact.

Even the opening question is legitimate for those of us who don't find Muhammad convincing as prophet...
just as muslims question why Christians believe in what they consider to be 'crazy'... the Trinity... the death and resurrection of Yshwe... the communion present in the bread and the wine...

It is no different than the same question Christians must pose to themselves regarding the things which Yshwe claimed...

"Jesus Christ has been called many things by many people, including a great man, a great teacher, a great prophet ... He was either telling the truth, He was crazy, or He was a liar."

Don't you question why others believe in what they believe?

asalaam,
Caringheart


Edited by Caringheart - 01 July 2014 at 2:40pm
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
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