Active TopicsActive Topics  Display List of Forum MembersMemberlist  CalendarCalendar  Search The ForumSearch  HelpHelp
  RegisterRegister  LoginLogin  Old ForumOld Forum  Twitter  Facebook
Advertisement:
         

General Discussion
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : General : General Discussion
Message Icon Topic: The CAUCASIAN Race will be excluded from Paradise Post Reply Post New Topic
<< Prev Page  of 5
Author Message
Caringheart
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 02 March 2012
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2130
Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 02 July 2014 at 1:21pm
Originally posted by Abu Loren

Do you know the meaning of the verse 5:48? I very much doubt it.
 

Greetings Abu Loren,

The message that Muhammad brings, by 'allah' in the qur'an, is an extremely confused message.
5:42 Listeners for the sake of falsehood! Greedy for illicit gain! If then they have recourse unto thee (Muhammad) judge between them or disclaim jurisdiction. If thou disclaimest jurisdiction, then they cannot harm thee at all. But if thou judgest, judge between them with equity. Lo! Allah loveth the equitable.
So Muhammad was 'advised, by allah', that to disclaim jurisdiction would be in the interest of his safety... but that if he were going to judge then judge fairly.
Also, in the interest of his own safety... use their own scriptures to settle their disputes... this way also he could not be accused of any unfairness.
and yet he (Muhammad/allah) goes on to say
5:43 How come they unto thee for judgment when they have the Torah, wherein Allah hath delivered judgment (for them) ? Yet even after that they turn away. Such (folk) are not believers.
So apparently allah feels that there is nothing wrong with their own scriptures, just the unwillingness of the people to follow them.
5:44 Lo! We did reveal the Torah, wherein is guidance and a light, by which the prophets who surrendered (unto Allah) judged the Jews, and the rabbis and the priests (judged) by such of Allah's Scripture as they were bidden to observe, and thereunto were they witnesses. So fear not mankind, but fear Me. And My revelations for a little gain. Whoso judgeth not by that which Allah hath revealed: such are disbelievers.
5:45 And We prescribed for them therein: The life for the life, and the eye for the eye, and the nose for the nose, and the ear for the ear, and the tooth for the tooth, and for wounds retaliation. But whoso forgoeth it (in the way of charity) it shall be expiation for him. Whoso judgeth not by that which Allah hath revealed: such are wrong-doers.
So while earlier saying... 'obey what is written in the scriptures' or else you are disbelievers...  he then says... but it is more to the good of the one who foregoes the enforcement of such punishments.

and yet calls those who do not enact the judgement of the scriptures, wrong-doers... So which is it?

For me... Yshwe taught, 'faith, hope, and Charity, and that the greatest of these is Charity'... i.e., the forgiveness of trespasses... 'and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us'.

5:46 And We caused Jesus, son of Mary, to follow in their footsteps, confirming that which was (revealed) before him in the Torah, and We bestowed on him the Gospel wherein is guidance and a light, confirming that which was (revealed) before it in the Torah - a guidance and an admonition unto those who ward off (evil).
5:47 Let the People of the Gospel judge by that which Allah hath revealed therein. Whoso judgeth not by that which Allah hath revealed: such are evil-livers.
The people of the Gospel (i.e., Christians) are to judge by the Gospel.
5:48 And unto thee have We revealed the Scripture with the truth, confirming whatever Scripture was before it, and a watcher over it. So judge between them by that which Allah hath revealed, and follow not their desires away from the truth which hath come unto thee. For each We have appointed a divine law and a traced-out way. Had Allah willed He could have made you one community. But that He may try you by that which He hath given you (He hath made you as ye are). So vie one with another in good works. Unto Allah ye will all return, and He will then inform you of that wherein ye differ.
The former scriptures have been confirmed and confirmed that they have been protected.
Those that follow Yshwe, have the way of Yshwe, the Gospels.
All is happening just as the Creator designed it to happen.
and He will reveal to you at your meeting with Him, the Truth of all matters
_________________________________

Now, if you will... without referring to any of what I have just posted...

simply share with me what you believe surah 5:48 means.

Shukran and salaam,
Caringheart
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
IP IP Logged
lady
 
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 20 September 2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 266
Quote lady Replybullet Posted: 03 July 2014 at 2:10am
Abu I am saying that with u can't make that assumption that few Caucasians will enter into Jinnah because u are not Allah.
IP IP Logged
Abu Loren
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 29 June 2012
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1125
Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 03 July 2014 at 2:51am
Originally posted by Caringheart

_________________________________

Now, if you will... without referring to any of what I have just posted...

simply share with me what you believe surah 5:48 means.

Shukran and salaam,
Caringheart
I'm not qualified to interpret the verse on my own so the next best thing I can do is point you to the tasfir of Ibn Abbas and I believe in this.
 

* تفسير Tanwr al-Miqbs min Tafsr Ibn Abbs


{ وَأَنزَلْنَآ إِلَيْكَ ٱلْكِتَابَ بِٱلْحَقِّ مُصَدِّقاً لِّمَا بَيْنَ يَدَيْهِ مِنَ ٱلْكِتَابِ وَمُهَيْمِناً عَلَيْهِ فَٱحْكُم بَيْنَهُم بِمَآ أَنزَلَ ٱللَّهُ وَلاَ تَتَّبِعْ أَهْوَآءَهُمْ عَمَّا جَآءَكَ مِنَ ٱلْحَقِّ لِكُلٍّ جَعَلْنَا مِنكُمْ شِرْعَةً وَمِنْهَاجاً وَلَوْ شَآءَ ٱللَّهُ لَجَعَلَكُمْ أُمَّةً وَاحِدَةً وَلَـٰكِن لِّيَبْلُوَكُمْ فِي مَآ آتَاكُم فَاسْتَبِقُوا الخَيْرَاتِ إِلَىٰ الله مَرْجِعُكُمْ جَمِيعاً فَيُنَبِّئُكُم بِمَا كُنتُمْ فِيهِ تَخْتَلِفُونَ }

(And unto thee have We revealed the Scripture) We have sent you Gabriel with the Qur'an (with the Truth) to make plain the Truth and falsehood, (confirming) the statement of Allah's divine Oneness and some laws (whatever Scripture was before it) whatever Scriptures were before it, (and a watcher over it) a witness upon all the Scriptures before it; it is also said: a witness upon the ruling of stoning; and it is also said: a watcher over all previous Scriptures. (So judge between them) between the Banu Qurayzah and the Banu'l-Nadir and the people of Khaybar (by that which Allah hath revealed) by that which Allah has exposited to you in the Qur'an, (and follow not their desires) regarding the application of whipping and discarding stoning (away from the Truth which hath come unto thee) after the exposition that has come to you. (For each We have appointed a divine law) for each prophet among you We have exposited a divine law (and a traced out way) obligations and practices. (Had Allah willed He could have made you one community) He has made you follow one divine law. (But that He may try you) test you (by that which He hath given you) of Scripture, obligations and practices, such that He says: I have prescribed all this for you, so let not delusion creep into your minds. (So vie one with another in good works) so vie, O Community of Muhammad (pbuh) with other nations, in obligations, practices and righteous works; it is also said that this means: hasten, O Community of Muhammad (pbuh) to perform acts of obedience. (Unto Allah ye will all) all nations (return, and He will then inform you of that wherein ye differ) where you contravene in relation to religion and divine laws.

 

IP IP Logged
Caringheart
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 02 March 2012
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2130
Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 03 July 2014 at 8:50am
Originally posted by Abu Loren

Originally posted by Caringheart


Now, if you will... without referring to any of what I have just posted...

simply share with me what you believe surah 5:48 means.

Shukran and salaam,
Caringheart
I'm not qualified to interpret the verse on my own so the next best thing I can do is point you to the tasfir of Ibn Abbas and I believe in this.
 

* تفسير Tanwr al-Miqbs min Tafsr Ibn Abbs





{ وَأَنزَلْنَآ إِلَيْكَ ٱلْكِتَابَ بِٱلْحَقِّ مُصَدِّقاً لِّمَا بَيْنَ يَدَيْهِ مِنَ ٱلْكِتَابِ وَمُهَيْمِناً عَلَيْهِ فَٱحْكُم بَيْنَهُم بِمَآ أَنزَلَ ٱللَّهُ وَلاَ تَتَّبِعْ أَهْوَآءَهُمْ عَمَّا جَآءَكَ مِنَ ٱلْحَقِّ لِكُلٍّ جَعَلْنَا مِنكُمْ شِرْعَةً وَمِنْهَاجاً وَلَوْ شَآءَ ٱللَّهُ لَجَعَلَكُمْ أُمَّةً وَاحِدَةً وَلَـٰكِن لِّيَبْلُوَكُمْ فِي مَآ آتَاكُم فَاسْتَبِقُوا الخَيْرَاتِ إِلَىٰ الله مَرْجِعُكُمْ جَمِيعاً فَيُنَبِّئُكُم بِمَا كُنتُمْ فِيهِ تَخْتَلِفُونَ }

(And unto thee have We revealed the Scripture) We have sent you Gabriel with the Qur'an (with the Truth) to make plain the Truth and falsehood, (confirming) the statement of Allah's divine Oneness and some laws (whatever Scripture was before it) whatever Scriptures were before it, (and a watcher over it) a witness upon all the Scriptures before it; it is also said: a witness upon the ruling of stoning; and it is also said: a watcher over all previous Scriptures. (So judge between them) between the Banu Qurayzah and the Banu'l-Nadir and the people of Khaybar (by that which Allah hath revealed) by that which Allah has exposited to you in the Qur'an, (and follow not their desires) regarding the application of whipping and discarding stoning (away from the Truth which hath come unto thee) after the exposition that has come to you. (For each We have appointed a divine law) for each prophet among you We have exposited a divine law (and a traced out way) obligations and practices. (Had Allah willed He could have made you one community) He has made you follow one divine law. (But that He may try you) test you (by that which He hath given you) of Scripture, obligations and practices, such that He says: I have prescribed all this for you, so let not delusion creep into your minds. (So vie one with another in good works) so vie, O Community of Muhammad (pbuh) with other nations, in obligations, practices and righteous works; it is also said that this means: hasten, O Community of Muhammad (pbuh) to perform acts of obedience. (Unto Allah ye will all) all nations (return, and He will then inform you of that wherein ye differ) where you contravene in relation to religion and divine laws.


Greetings Abu Loren,

This is just a re-stating of the surah.
Can you tell me what it means to you, in your own words?

If you can not do this, how can you claim to follow it?

One has to have understanding, and I am interested to know what your understanding is.

Shukran and salaam,
Caringheart

note:  Remember you were the one who accused me...
      "Do you know the meaning of the verse 5:48? I very much doubt it."
and I have shown you my understanding.
Now please show me yours.  Peace.


Edited by Caringheart - 03 July 2014 at 8:53am
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
IP IP Logged
Abu Loren
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 29 June 2012
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1125
Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 03 July 2014 at 12:16pm
Originally posted by Caringheart


Greetings Abu Loren,

This is just a re-stating of the surah.
Can you tell me what it means to you, in your own words?

If you can not do this, how can you claim to follow it?

One has to have understanding, and I am interested to know what your understanding is.

Shukran and salaam,
Caringheart

note:  Remember you were the one who accused me...
      "Do you know the meaning of the verse 5:48? I very much doubt it."
and I have shown you my understanding.
Now please show me yours.  Peace.


As far as my understanding of the verse is concerned, it simply says that it was God who sent down the Qur'an to Prophet Muhammad (SalAllahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) confirming that it was indeed the same God who sent down the previous revelations such as the Torah. Then God tells Prophet Muhammad that if the Jews and the Christians were to come to him for judgement for crimes such as adultery, stealing etc the he can judge them using the Qur'an. Then God tells Prophet Muhammad (SalAllahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) to not to listen to nor deviate from the Law that he was given if the Jews and Christians tells him that his judgment is wrong.
Then God tells us that if He Willed then He would have made mankind one nation or one religion and that it He Who made the Jews and the Christians astray to test them (to see if they would follow Prophet Muhammad (SalAllahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) and what he was given in the Qur'an.
When we all die then we will all be resurrected and we will all return to Him then He will show us where we have erred.


Edited by Abu Loren - 03 July 2014 at 12:17pm
IP IP Logged
Caringheart
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 02 March 2012
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2130
Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 03 July 2014 at 1:19pm
Originally posted by Abu Loren



As far as my understanding of the verse is concerned, it simply says that it was God who sent down the Qur'an to Prophet Muhammad (SalAllahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) confirming that it was indeed the same God who sent down the previous revelations such as the Torah.


Greetings Abu Loren,

It seems to me that you overlook a great deal.


What about this;
5:44 Lo! We did reveal the Torah, wherein is guidance and a light, by which the prophets who surrendered (unto Allah) judged the Jews, and the rabbis and the priests

Then God tells Prophet Muhammad that if the Jews and the Christians were to come to him for judgement for crimes such as adultery, stealing etc the he can judge them using the Qur'an.
I don't know how you reach this conclusion when the surah's clearly state what I've shown above as regards the Jews, and this below, as regards the Christians.

5:47 Let the People of the Gospel judge by that which Allah hath revealed therein.

by what has been revealed therein... in the Gospel.. not the qur'an.
and for the Jews, the Torah...
which is precisely what Muhammad did...
He judged them according to their own scriptures.  Are you not aware of this?
I believe he did this for his own protection as much as anything...
If he used their own scriptures he could hardly be accused of anything.


 Then God tells Prophet Muhammad (SalAllahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) to not to listen to nor deviate from the Law that he was given if the Jews and Christians tells him that his judgment is wrong.
Then God tells us that if He Willed then He would have made mankind one nation or one religion and that it He Who made the Jews and the Christians astray to test them (to see if they would follow Prophet Muhammad (SalAllahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) and what he was given in the Qur'an.
5:48 ... For each We have appointed a divine law and a traced-out way. Had Allah willed He could have made you one community. But that He may try you by that which He hath given you

Clearly the surah states that each has been given his own way and that they will be tried according to what they have been given.

When we all die then we will all be resurrected and we will all return to Him then He will show us where we have erred.
I am pleased that we agree on at least one statement.  Smile  This last of yours. 

asalaam,
Caringheart

[/QUOTE]

Edited by Caringheart - 03 July 2014 at 1:21pm
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
IP IP Logged
Abu Loren
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 29 June 2012
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1125
Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 04 July 2014 at 2:51am
Originally posted by Caringheart

Originally posted by Abu Loren



As far as my understanding of the verse is concerned, it simply says that it was God who sent down the Qur'an to Prophet Muhammad (SalAllahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) confirming that it was indeed the same God who sent down the previous revelations such as the Torah.


Greetings Abu Loren,

It seems to me that you overlook a great deal.


What about this;
5:44 Lo! We did reveal the Torah, wherein is guidance and a light, by which the prophets who surrendered (unto Allah) judged the Jews, and the rabbis and the priests

Then God tells Prophet Muhammad that if the Jews and the Christians were to come to him for judgement for crimes such as adultery, stealing etc the he can judge them using the Qur'an.
I don't know how you reach this conclusion when the surah's clearly state what I've shown above as regards the Jews, and this below, as regards the Christians.

5:47 Let the People of the Gospel judge by that which Allah hath revealed therein.

by what has been revealed therein... in the Gospel.. not the qur'an.
and for the Jews, the Torah...
which is precisely what Muhammad did...
He judged them according to their own scriptures.  Are you not aware of this?
I believe he did this for his own protection as much as anything...
If he used their own scriptures he could hardly be accused of anything.


 Then God tells Prophet Muhammad (SalAllahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) to not to listen to nor deviate from the Law that he was given if the Jews and Christians tells him that his judgment is wrong.
Then God tells us that if He Willed then He would have made mankind one nation or one religion and that it He Who made the Jews and the Christians astray to test them (to see if they would follow Prophet Muhammad (SalAllahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) and what he was given in the Qur'an.
5:48 ... For each We have appointed a divine law and a traced-out way. Had Allah willed He could have made you one community. But that He may try you by that which He hath given you

Clearly the surah states that each has been given his own way and that they will be tried according to what they have been given.

When we all die then we will all be resurrected and we will all return to Him then He will show us where we have erred.
I am pleased that we agree on at least one statement.  Smile  This last of yours. 

asalaam,
Caringheart

[/QUOTE]
This is because you don't understand the Qur'an. What you read is not what the meaning of it is because the verses may be referring to something else.
 
For example within verse 5:48 the statement "Had Allah willed, He would have made you one nation [united in religion], but [He intended] to test you in what He has given you; so race to [all that is] good." means, to me,  that the Jews and Christians were tested to see if they would accept the Final Revelation or not, whether they were truly believers, because if they were they would have recognised Mohammad (SalAllahu Alayhi Sallam) as a Messenger of God and the Qur'an as the Final Revelation.
 
Regarding verse 5:44
 
You have to read it in context with the preceding verse of 44 to understand it.
 

Sahih International

But how is it that they come to you for judgement while they have the Torah, in which is the judgement of Allah ? Then they turn away, [even] after that; but those are not [in fact] believers.

Indeed, We sent down the Torah, in which was guidance and light. The prophets who submitted [to Allah ] judged by it for the Jews, as did the rabbis and scholars by that with which they were entrusted of the Scripture of Allah , and they were witnesses thereto. So do not fear the people but fear Me, and do not exchange My verses for a small price. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed - then it is those who are the disbelievers. 5:43-44



Edited by Abu Loren - 04 July 2014 at 2:52am
IP IP Logged
<< Prev Page  of 5
Post Reply Post New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Disclaimer:
The opinions expressed herein contain positions and viewpoints that are not necessarily those of IslamiCity. This forum is offered to stimulate dialogue and discussion in our continuing mission of being an educational organization.
If there is any issue with any of the postings please email to icforum at islamicity.com or if you are a forum's member you can use the report button.

Note: The 99 names of Allah avatars are courtesy of www.arthafez.com

Advertisement:



Sponsored by:
Islamicity Membership Program:
IslamiCity Donation Program  http://www.islamicity.com/Donate
IslamiCity Arabic eLearning http://www.islamiCity.com/ArabAcademy
Complete Domain & Hosting Solutions www.icDomain.com
Home for Muslim Tunes www.icTunes.com
Islamic Video Collections www.islamiTV.com
IslamiCity Marriage Site www.icMarriage.com