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Eoah
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Quote Eoah Replybullet Posted: 23 June 2014 at 10:15am
Thankyou both Caringheart and islamispeace for your responses, God bless you both!

islamispeace:  I am very pleased and happy that you agree with this.  Let us be a part of a "One God Alliance" - of religions united for God!  This is my agenda for being on this forum.

Caringheart:  It is very interesting what you have said about the atoms of creation.  Even though I don't believe in the trinity of God, I do believe in the trinity of creation:  What is Creation broken down to its most fundamental aspects?  Is it not Energy in Time and Space?

But, Caringheart, you are missing the original point that I was trying to make. The only proof that there is a trinity is that there is a Trinity Precedent that says that God is connected to the number three.  And there isn't any.  Until you can prove the Trinity precedent, all other arguments are circumstantial, circular and irrelevent.  The holy trinity is as real as the holy quartet, because God is not connected to the number four, either.

Being an Empath Sensitive who is suffering from severe depression in the last few months, I have been experiancing an extremely terrible Monday. I was wondering if this is because I have been picking up the dark negative energy of the Evangelist Christians who threw me out on Sunday.  I felt like I was under psychic attack or maybe it is just that my depression is really bad.  I feel afraid.

I feel that the dark side of Evangelism, that was originally created by the devious deception of trinity, has reached a critical mass.  Trinity Christianity, today, is a very vast and powerful global force both psychically and politically.  This, along with a minority of Sunni Shaitanists (Isis and Al Queda) is having a negative impact  upon our world.  Perhaps God has made an ultimatum to all Christians of the world: Repent and disown trinity, or face the consequences.  This is what I am speculating only, because God works in ways totally beyond our understanding.

We need a "One God Alliance" of religions united for God.  This can be a political force stronger than Trinity Christianity.Wink
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Caringheart
 
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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 23 June 2014 at 11:47am
Originally posted by Eoah

Thankyou both Caringheart and islamispeace for your responses, God bless you both!

Caringheart: 
...  What is Creation broken down to its most fundamental aspects?  Is it not Energy in Time and Space?

Greetings Eoah,
I share these very same thoughts.

But, Caringheart, you are missing the original point that I was trying to make. The only proof that there is a trinity is that there is a Trinity Precedent that says that God is connected to the number three.  And there isn't any.  Until you can prove the Trinity precedent, all other arguments are circumstantial, circular and irrelevent.  The holy trinity is as real as the holy quartet, because God is not connected to the number four, either.

Do you not accept the words of Yshwe(known as Jesus)?  If you do, how do you account for these words of His?

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost


Being an Empath Sensitive who is suffering from severe depression in the last few months, I have been experiancing an extremely terrible Monday. I was wondering if this is because I have been picking up the dark negative energy of the Evangelist Christians who threw me out on Sunday.  I felt like I was under psychic attack or maybe it is just that my depression is really bad.  I feel afraid.

I'm sorry that you feel under attack from depression or otherwise.  I will lift you in prayer today asking God to lift any spirit that may be tormenting you... and to lift the spirit of fear, since the spirit of fear, according to the Word of God, is always from the devil.  I will pray for you to feel the peace of Christ fill you.

 God works in ways totally beyond our understanding.

I completely agree with you there and often contemplate in the same way that you have been.

We need a "One God Alliance" of religions united for God.  This can be a political force stronger than Trinity Christianity.Wink

I do completely disagree with the one God alliance of religions.  I believe that this is the coming deception... a deception for which the wheels were put in motion 1400 years ago.

Peace and blessings to you, wishing you well,
Caringheart



Edited by Caringheart - 23 June 2014 at 11:50am
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
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Ron Webb
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Quote Ron Webb Replybullet Posted: 23 June 2014 at 4:25pm
I was skimming through this discussion when I came across this -- and my jaw dropped! --
Originally posted by Caringheart

Please give explanation... Why would anyone invent a story so hard to be accepted?  Who in your mind would have invented such a history and for what purpose?  If someone wanted to invent something, they would invent something easy to be believed.

My goodness, this actually makes sense to you?  The more unbelievable a story is, the more you're inclined to believe it?

IMHO a more reasonable question would be, why would anyone believe a story so hard to be accepted?
 
And why has a story so hard to be accepted endured through 2014 years?

Perhaps you ought to be a Hindu.  The roots of Hinduism go back thousands of years before Christ, and their stories are at least as unbelievable as the Christian Gospel.
Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.
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islamispeace
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Quote islamispeace Replybullet Posted: 23 June 2014 at 4:32pm
Originally posted by Caringheart

Here's how I see it.  I could say of you;

"You confirm ... you are a blind apologist who only sees what he wants to see and ignores all evidence and reason that contradicts everything he has been taught. "

I have my Biblical worldview.
You have your Muhammadan world view.


I could care less what you say.  This is about facts, not personal opinions.  So far, you haven't responded to the facts.  How typical of Christian apologists!

Originally posted by Caringheart

Your "facts", that you present... where do you get your "facts" from?


Oh, I don't know...common sense and the evidence that is right in front of our eyes?  But I know those things don't mean anything to you!  Wink

Originally posted by Caringheart

Here are the words of Yshwe:

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

I know that you do not accept them... but there they are.

 

LOL Why is it that brain-washed apologists are so easily fooled by the contradictions in their own Bible?  Here is the thing: these verses are not the original words of Jesus!  They are a later invention of the church.  How do we know this?  Well, for one thing, these verses contradict others in the New Testament.  As the late Biblical scholar Geza Vermes stated:

"The saying is ascribed to the risen Jesus appearing on a Galilean mountain, an event foretold in Mark..., but attested exclusively attested in Matthew.  The main message, viz. a worldwide mission of the envoys of Jesus, contradicts his prohibition on approaching non-Jews...In fact, the passage contains further ideas unrecorded elsewhere in the New Testament. [...] In the earlier missionary programmes there was no question of baptism, let alone baptizing all the nations.  Moreover, baptism administered in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit in unheard of not just in the Gospels but in whole New Testament.  The formula occurring in the Acts of the Apostles is baptism 'into' or 'in the name of Jesus' (Acts 2:38, 8:16, 10:48, 19:5), and baptism 'into Christ' in Paul (Rom. 6:3, Gal. 3:7).  Outside Matthew, the trinitarian formula, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, first occurs in the early church manual entitled the Didache or Teaching of the Twelve Apostles, which is dated to the first half of 2nd century AD.  All this points to a late Gentile-Christian origin for Matthew 28:18-20." ("The Authentic Gospel of Jesus, p. 54)
 
So, there you go.  Another one of your absurd claims debunked by a little research.  Why can't you just admit that you have been deceived?  It's for your own good!

Originally posted by Caringheart

Please give explanation... Why would anyone invent a story so hard to be accepted?  Who in your mind would have invented such a history and for what purpose?  If someone wanted to invent something, they would invent something easy to be believed.


This story was not invented by just one person.  It is the result of centuries of misinformation.  The term "trinity" (from the Latin "trinitas") was not even used until the late 2nd-century by Tertullian, after his conversion to Montanism. 

Originally posted by Caringheart

And why has a story so hard to be accepted endured through 2014 years? 

The reason is clear... it has endured because it is God's Truth.  It is there in the scriptures.  When Yshwe disappeared from the tomb after having been seen placed there in death, and sealed in, and the entrance guarded...

when He appeared to many as the risen Christ... all became clear to those who witnessed these things.  It was then, they began to understand the words of Yshwe, all that He had been telling to them.



Oh brother...the childish logic of Christian apologists! 

Using your logic, we can argue that Hinduism is true because it has been around for thousands of years, or as you put it, it has "endured". 

The reason Christianity has survived is the same for why every other ancient ideology has survived: faith, or more specifically in the case of Christianity, blind faith.  Blind faith is a powerful force.  You have exhibited signs of it over and over again and serve as a perfect example of how powerful it is.

Originally posted by Caringheart

Peace unto you.  May you one day believe.
 
 
LOL This is another tactic of blind Christian apologists.  After providing a ludicrous and weak defense of their blind faith, they act like the people they are preaching to are poor, lost souls who need to guided to the "truth".  Well, let me fill you in on something!  It's you who is the lost soul!

So, let me respond to your "may you one day believe" nonsense by saying:

It ain't gonna happen, lady!

I will never "believe" in a Satanic lie.  You need to get your head out of the ground. 
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

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islamispeace
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Quote islamispeace Replybullet Posted: 23 June 2014 at 4:32pm
Originally posted by Ron Webb

I was skimming through this discussion when I came across this -- and my jaw dropped! --
Originally posted by Caringheart

Please give explanation... Why would anyone invent a story so hard to be accepted?  Who in your mind would have invented such a history and for what purpose?  If someone wanted to invent something, they would invent something easy to be believed.

My goodness, this actually makes sense to you?  The more unbelievable a story is, the more you're inclined to believe it?

IMHO a more reasonable question would be, why would anyone believe a story so hard to be accepted?
 
And why has a story so hard to be accepted endured through 2014 years?

Perhaps you ought to be a Hindu.  The roots of Hinduism go back thousands of years before Christ, and their stories are at least as unbelievable as the Christian Gospel.


My sentiments exactly! 
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 23 June 2014 at 5:42pm
Originally posted by islamispeace

Originally posted by Caringheart

Here's how I see it.  I could say of you;

"You confirm ... you are a blind apologist who only sees what he wants to see and ignores all evidence and reason that contradicts everything he has been taught. "

I have my Biblical worldview.
You have your Muhammadan world view.


I could care less what you say.  This is about facts, not personal opinions.  So far, you haven't responded to the facts.  How typical of Christian apologists!

Originally posted by Caringheart

Your "facts", that you present... where do you get your "facts" from?


Oh, I don't know...common sense and the evidence that is right in front of our eyes?  But I know those things don't mean anything to you! 


No, no.... no backpedaling.  You want to speak of facts.  If these are facts you are presenting and not your opinions, then tell me, just where do your "facts" come from?

I wasn't stating an "opinion".  I was stating a viewpoint... a perspective derived from study.  Each of our individual 'viewpoints' will be influenced by where we grew up, how we were taught, what we were taught, the attitudes, traditions, customs, beliefs, etc.,  of the people with which we grew up.


I'd be interested to know why Geza Vermes believes that Yshwe(known as Jesus) was killed.

Please let me clarify... I am not a 'Christian apologist'... I am merely one who engages in discussion in my journey of seeking through this life(without the need to mock others, I might add Smile)... one who questions their own belief as much as any other.  I think the difference between good and evil lies with us, within ourselves, not in the strictures of beliefs.  Beliefs are meant to be guides.

So the Hindu's have blind faith also, in your opinion?  (and yes, it is your opinion)
The argument could well be made then that every faith is a blind faith.  I have a broader perspective, as outlined above.  There are many factors that influence what we come to believe and to accept.
I think it is very interesting that you don't even see your own 'blind faith', but have no problem accusing and attacking others.  I don't do that, nor would I ever feel the need to.
There are glaring realities about your belief that you refuse to accept because you are comfortable with your faith.  And that is fine... we should each be comfortable with our faith... and then the Creator will decide.
Meanwhile I only present to you what seems right to me, and why.  Can you present to me what seems right to you and why?  You are good about telling me why you don't accept my faith, but what about telling me why you do accept yours?

Shukran and salaam,
Caringheart


Edited by Caringheart - 23 June 2014 at 5:50pm
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
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Eoah
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Quote Eoah Replybullet Posted: 24 June 2014 at 8:24am
Thankyou Caringheart!  I am totally grateful and appreciative of your prayers, because they worked on me big time!  I love you!

When I woke up today, my fear was gone.  As I walked towards the supermarket to do the shopping, I just started singing spontaneously.  Halfway to the supermarket, I pop into the Sri Chinmoy Centre and sign up for their Meditation Week.  Meditation seems to be the only thing that helps my depression.  When I was talking to the girl at the centre, I told her that even though I was never really been drawn towards Sri Chinmoy, I find the people at the centre so loving and kind and full of light.  When I said that she beamed and flushed - and then that triggers off my humanity love - and then that triggers off my love of God.

That's my Christian philosophy in a nutshell: Of doing the second greatest commandment to do the greatest commandment.

I don't know what a Christian Apologist is, but in my own way I am a Christian Apologist: I apologise to Muslims in the western world who have to put up with the prevailing attitudes of fear, ignorance, distrust and Islamaphobia.

Caringheart, in Matthew 28:19

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost

Since 1968, when I became a Christian, I have always believed this and still do, but without believing it was trinity.  I was always vaguely aware of the word "trinity", but never gave it any attention to what it might mean.  And then 8 years ago, a Muslim pointed out what "trinity" means.  And I said "No way! That's against the 10 commandments!!!"  I was shocked! I always wondered why Christians were so narrow minded and unaccepting of other religions but couldn't figger out why (well, except for the "I am the way, the truth,etc - which is interpreted out of context). The point I want to make is that this does not prove trinity!  You still need the "Trinity Precedent" that proves that God is connected to the number three.  There is no proof that trinity exists.  Period.  I rest my case.

I do completely disagree with the one God alliance of religions.  I believe that this is the coming deception... a deception for which the wheels were put in motion 1400 years ago.

Deception???

It's OK, Caringheart.  Most Christians are going to find my point of view very threatening, according to their Christian conditioning.  I can understand.  However, you need to understand that all other religions feel threatened by  Christianitys' lack of tolerance for all other religions, because apparently "Jesus is the only way."  That is why Christianity is the most separatist religion in the world.  Because they believe they have exclusive ownership of God!  But the only true intercessor is an individuals willingness to accept God in their life, regardless of the religion they might choose as a vehicle for worshipping that One God.

A Christian approached a Native American medicine man and said: "Why do you not say anything about my religion?  don't you realize that Jesus is Lord?"  And the medicine man replied: "Jesus is not lord.  God is Lord!"

So, I say to all religions: "To hang with those party-pooping Christians.  Let's form an alliance based on a One God; based on love, mutual respect and understanding - To promote peace in this world."

Satan divides - but God unites. Now figger out which groups of people divide and which groups of people unite.  Which groups are exclusive and which groups are inclusive.  Which groups are more likely to promote war and which groups are more likely to promote peace. You decide.



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Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 24 June 2014 at 1:00pm
Originally posted by Eoah

Thankyou Caringheart!  I am totally grateful and appreciative of your prayers, because they worked on me big time!  I love you!

When I woke up today, my fear was gone.  As I walked towards the supermarket to do the shopping, I just started singing spontaneously.  Halfway to the supermarket, I pop into the Sri Chinmoy Centre and sign up for their Meditation Week.  Meditation seems to be the only thing that helps my depression.  When I was talking to the girl at the centre, I told her that even though I was never really been drawn towards Sri Chinmoy, I find the people at the centre so loving and kind and full of light.  When I said that she beamed and flushed - and then that triggers off my humanity love - and then that triggers off my love of God.

That's my Christian philosophy in a nutshell: Of doing the second greatest commandment to do the greatest commandment.

I don't know what a Christian Apologist is, but in my own way I am a Christian Apologist: I apologise to Muslims in the western world who have to put up with the prevailing attitudes of fear, ignorance, distrust and Islamaphobia.

Caringheart, in Matthew 28:19

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost

Since 1968, when I became a Christian, I have always believed this and still do, but without believing it was trinity.  I was always vaguely aware of the word "trinity", but never gave it any attention to what it might mean.  And then 8 years ago, a Muslim pointed out what "trinity" means.  And I said "No way! That's against the 10 commandments!!!"  I was shocked! I always wondered why Christians were so narrow minded and unaccepting of other religions but couldn't figger out why (well, except for the "I am the way, the truth,etc - which is interpreted out of context). The point I want to make is that this does not prove trinity!  You still need the "Trinity Precedent" that proves that God is connected to the number three.  There is no proof that trinity exists.  Period.  I rest my case.

I do completely disagree with the one God alliance of religions.  I believe that this is the coming deception... a deception for which the wheels were put in motion 1400 years ago.

Deception???

It's OK, Caringheart.  Most Christians are going to find my point of view very threatening, according to their Christian conditioning.  I can understand.  However, you need to understand that all other religions feel threatened by  Christianitys' lack of tolerance for all other religions, because apparently "Jesus is the only way."  That is why Christianity is the most separatist religion in the world.  Because they believe they have exclusive ownership of God!  But the only true intercessor is an individuals willingness to accept God in their life, regardless of the religion they might choose as a vehicle for worshipping that One God.

A Christian approached a Native American medicine man and said: "Why do you not say anything about my religion?  don't you realize that Jesus is Lord?"  And the medicine man replied: "Jesus is not lord.  God is Lord!"

So, I say to all religions: "To hang with those party-pooping Christians.  Let's form an alliance based on a One God; based on love, mutual respect and understanding - To promote peace in this world."

Satan divides - but God unites. Now figger out which groups of people divide and which groups of people unite.  Which groups are exclusive and which groups are inclusive.  Which groups are more likely to promote war and which groups are more likely to promote peace. You decide.


Greetings Eoah,

Praise God.  I am so happy to hear you feeling better.  God is the true healer.  Smile  I will be keeping you in prayer today as well.
I also find meditation to be very helpful when I need to connect with my Maker.

You may be surprised, but I essentially agree with what you have written.

(although I believe in the Trinity... because I do find the precedent for it according to what is written in the scriptures... I am open minded about its concept, and what others do, or do not, accept.  Either way, it is the Creator to whom goes the glory. Smile  The whole concept of the Creator will remain a mystery until the day we meet Him and all will be clear.)

And you are correct, God unites... that is why I believe it is not about 'an alliance of religions', but about an alliance of people.  When we learn what it is to truly serve the Creator, and to stop opposing those who do serve Him just because they serve in their own way.  The ones we should fear are those that do not serve the purposes of preservation of the creation.  I agree with you, those that divide are those that serve the purpose of satan.

Peace and blessings to you, and keep smiling,
it is time for my prayers Smile
Caringheart


Edited by Caringheart - 24 June 2014 at 1:00pm
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
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