Active TopicsActive Topics  Display List of Forum MembersMemberlist  CalendarCalendar  Search The ForumSearch  HelpHelp
  RegisterRegister  LoginLogin  Old ForumOld Forum  Twitter  Facebook
Advertisement:
         

General Discussion
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : General : General Discussion
Message Icon Topic: Today I was thrown out of church Post Reply Post New Topic
Page  of 4 Next >>
Author Message
Eoah
Male Christian
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 20 January 2013
Location: New Zealand
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 27
Quote Eoah Replybullet Topic: Today I was thrown out of church
    Posted: 22 June 2014 at 2:19am
I don't usually go to church.  But, today I felt in my heart that I had to go into the church to say something.  When I had said it, I was jossled out by aggressive members of the church out onto the street and told not to come back.  I will not go back.  I had said what I intended to say:


"The idolatry of Jesus is against the Ten Commandments - because there is no trinity precedent in the Bible!"

Most of my family are dedicated Evangelist Christians.  But, I refuse to go to church when my sister invites me.  There is good love between my sister and I, even though we are at loggerheads on Christian belief.  Well, I rang up my sister to tell her I went to church but got thrown out and we debated the statement.  she said: "Prove it!"  I said: "Prove me wrong!"

After she invited me over next saturday to celebrate midwinter with the family at her place we hung up and I thought about our discussion.  I thought: "How can she ask me to prove it when the second part of the statement IS the proof!"  One cannot even debate the nature of trinity until it can be established that there is a trinity in the first place.  That is what I mean by a "Trinity Precedent".  And there is NO Trinity Precedent in the bible; there is absolutely nothing in the Bible that connects God with the number three.  That is the fact; that is the truth!  And the Quran backs that up!

Then I thought about how my sister wanted me to prove the proof.  And I thought: "In a way, the proof is only half the proof, because the other half of the proof is the recipients' willingness and genuineness to want the truth."  How can I prove anything to anybody if they are unwillinging to see the proof?

I will be discussing this with my family on saturday and I will keep you posted.

My brothers and sisters of One God, feel free for good stimulating discussion of this.
IP IP Logged
Caringheart
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 02 March 2012
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2025
Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 22 June 2014 at 9:14am
http://www.menorah.org/trinity1.html

The Trinity is in the Bible, even from the Torah, but mostly in the things Yshwe(known as Jesus) said and demonstrated of, and in, Himself.

And (Elohim) said. Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:
 Genesis 1:26

Elohim made man, a being composed of a triunity --- body, soul and spirit, in the image of God

and God always refers to Himself in the plural, not the singular.

As a matter of fact everything you come in contact with is not a mathematical concept of one, but usually an item composed of a trinity.

All things are composed of millions and billions of atoms; but the atom itself is a trinity of a proton, electron and nucleus.

   If, according to our rabbis', God has made everything and arranged everything in a Trinitarian way.  then it must also be Jewish and biblical to know that God, Himself is a Trinity.
Rabbi Joshua bar Nehemiah said that this is the Torah whose letters are threefold, alf, bet, g(i)ml, and everything is a Trinity: The Torah is Trinitarian, for it is composed of the Torah, the  Prophets, and the Writings. The Mishna (talmudical learning) is a trinity composed of Talmud (learning) halakhot (daily Jewish laws) and haggadot (historical items). The mediator consisted of a trinity of Miriam, Moses, & Aaron. Prayers are a trinity of morning, afternoon, and evening prayers. Israel is a trinity consisting of priests, Levites and Israelites. The name Moses in Hebrew consists of three letters.  He is of the tribe of Levi, which again is in the   Hebrew three letters. from the seed of the Patriarchs who  are a trinity of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob; in the third month which is Sivan, after Nisan & Iyar on  mount Sin whose letters are three as it is written. "And they rested in the wilderness of Sin.".(Midrash  Tanhuma on Exodus 19)
The Trinity explained
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUy-H5MmeGU


Edited by Caringheart - 22 June 2014 at 9:44am
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
IP IP Logged
islamispeace
 Islam
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 01 November 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1936
Quote islamispeace Replybullet Posted: 22 June 2014 at 11:08am
Hello Eoah and welcome to the forum!

I am glad that you have realized that the trinity is a false doctrine and that worshiping Jesus (peace be upon him) is idolatry.  Alhamdulillah!

It is perhaps one of the greatest ironies in world history that Christians preach the trinity, yet it is not even found in their own scripture (the New Testament), let alone in the so-called "Old Testament" (Tanakh).  Any objective analysis of both "testaments" shows that there is no trinity doctrine mentioned therein, despite the insistence of apologists like "Caringheart" and her ilk.  Here are some articles from Jewish sources which dispel the myth that the trinity can be found in the Tanakh:

http://www.hebrew-streams.org/works/hazak/af-answer.pdf

http://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/articles/answers-2/god-as-one-vs-the-trinity/

http://www.whatjewsbelieve.org/explanation6.html
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

IP IP Logged
Caringheart
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 02 March 2012
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2025
Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 22 June 2014 at 1:40pm

"Just because there are various manifestations of Gd in the Bible, this does not mean that each manifestation is to be regarded as separate and unequal to Gd, yet somehow at the same time one and the same as Gd. It also does not mean that each manifestation of Gd is to be treated differently. The Hebrew Scriptures tells us that Gd is One."

This, quoted from the source that islamispeace provided, only seems to confirm what I have said on the matter.

Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
IP IP Logged
islamispeace
 Islam
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 01 November 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1936
Quote islamispeace Replybullet Posted: 22 June 2014 at 2:23pm
Originally posted by Caringheart

"Just because there are various manifestations of Gd in the Bible, this does not mean that each manifestation is to be regarded as separate and unequal to Gd, yet somehow at the same time one and the same as Gd. It also does not mean that each manifestation of Gd is to be treated differently. The Hebrew Scriptures tells us that Gd is One."

This, quoted from the source that islamispeace provided, only seems to confirm what I have said on the matter.



LOL This only goes to show how blind and deceived you are.  You only read what you want to read (or perhaps you have problems with reading comprehension Wink).  See the part in red.  The article also explains in clear terms why the trinity doctrine has no place in the Tanakh:

"Not only are these concepts of a 'composite unity' and 'plural oneness' contradictory and untenable, as well as unbiblical, as we have seen, but there are more than just three manifestations of Gd in the Hebrew Scriptures."

The author then proceeds to give examples of these manifestations which completely demolish the Christian insistence that the trinity is "biblical".  That is a missionary lie. 
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

IP IP Logged
Caringheart
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 02 March 2012
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2025
Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 22 June 2014 at 5:58pm
Originally posted by islamispeace

Originally posted by Caringheart

"Just because there are various manifestations of Gd in the Bible, this does not mean that each manifestation is to be regarded as separate and unequal to Gd, yet somehow at the same time one and the same as Gd. It also does not mean that each manifestation of Gd is to be treated differently. The Hebrew Scriptures tells us that Gd is One."

This, quoted from the source that islamispeace provided, only seems to confirm what I have said on the matter.


This only goes to show how blind and deceived you are.  You only read what you want to read (or perhaps you have problems with reading comprehension Wink).  See the part in red.  The article also explains in clear terms why the trinity doctrine has no place in the Tanakh:

"Not only are these concepts of a 'composite unity' and 'plural oneness' contradictory and untenable, as well as unbiblical, as we have seen, but there are more than just three manifestations of Gd in the Hebrew Scriptures."


Greetings islamispeace,

I have ignored none of what you highlight.   It changes nothing in regard to what I have said which is why I did not hesitate to quote all of it.

You should watch the youtube video at the link I provided.

asalaam,
Caringheart


Edited by Caringheart - 22 June 2014 at 5:59pm
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
IP IP Logged
islamispeace
 Islam
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 01 November 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1936
Quote islamispeace Replybullet Posted: 22 June 2014 at 8:44pm
Originally posted by Caringheart

Originally posted by islamispeace

Originally posted by Caringheart

"Just because there are various manifestations of Gd in the Bible, this does not mean that each manifestation is to be regarded as separate and unequal to Gd, yet somehow at the same time one and the same as Gd. It also does not mean that each manifestation of Gd is to be treated differently. The Hebrew Scriptures tells us that Gd is One."

This, quoted from the source that islamispeace provided, only seems to confirm what I have said on the matter.


This only goes to show how blind and deceived you are.  You only read what you want to read (or perhaps you have problems with reading comprehension Wink).  See the part in red.  The article also explains in clear terms why the trinity doctrine has no place in the Tanakh:

"Not only are these concepts of a 'composite unity' and 'plural oneness' contradictory and untenable, as well as unbiblical, as we have seen, but there are more than just three manifestations of Gd in the Hebrew Scriptures."


Greetings islamispeace,

I have ignored none of what you highlight.   It changes nothing in regard to what I have said which is why I did not hesitate to quote all of it.

You should watch the youtube video at the link I provided.

asalaam,
Caringheart


You confirm over and over again what I have already said: you are a blind apologist who only sees what she wants to see and ignores all evidence and reason that contradicts everything she have been taught. 

I am very familiar with Christian excuses and explanations for the trinity.  I have heard it all.  The video is no different.  Do you think that will impress anyone, besides brainwashed and gullible apologists such as yourself? 

Here are the facts:

1.  The trinity is a false and Satanic doctrine, invented by the church.

2.  No such doctrine is even found in the New Testament, let alone the Tanakh. 

3.  The Christian worship of Jesus is nothing more than repackaged idolatry, as people like the Eoah have realized. 

Now, I harbor no delusions that I, or anyone else, will be able to persuade apologists like you.  That doesn't bother me.  You can live in your own fantasy world, while the rest of us will accept reality.  Big%20smile
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

IP IP Logged
Caringheart
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 02 March 2012
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2025
Quote Caringheart Replybullet Posted: 22 June 2014 at 10:01pm
Originally posted by islamispeace


You confirm over and over again what I have already said: you are a blind apologist who only sees what she wants to see and ignores all evidence and reason that contradicts everything she have been taught. 

Here are the facts:

1.  The trinity is a false and Satanic doctrine, invented by the church.

2.  No such doctrine is even found in the New Testament, let alone the Tanakh. 

3.  The Christian worship of Jesus is nothing more than repackaged idolatry, as people like the Eoah have realized. 

Greetings islamispeace,

Here's how I see it.  I could say of you;

"You confirm ... you are a blind apologist who only sees what he wants to see and ignores all evidence and reason that contradicts everything he has been taught. "

I have my Biblical worldview.
You have your Muhammadan world view.

Your "facts", that you present... where do you get your "facts" from?

Here are the words of Yshwe:

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

I know that you do not accept them... but there they are.

Please give explanation... Why would anyone invent a story so hard to be accepted?  Who in your mind would have invented such a history and for what purpose?  If someone wanted to invent something, they would invent something easy to be believed. 

And why has a story so hard to be accepted endured through 2014 years? 

The reason is clear... it has endured because it is God's Truth.  It is there in the scriptures.  When Yshwe disappeared from the tomb after having been seen placed there in death, and sealed in, and the entrance guarded...

when He appeared to many as the risen Christ... all became clear to those who witnessed these things.  It was then, they began to understand the words of Yshwe, all that He had been telling to them.

Peace unto you.  May you one day believe.

asalaam,

Caringheart



Edited by Caringheart - 22 June 2014 at 10:04pm
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
IP IP Logged
Page  of 4 Next >>
Post Reply Post New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Disclaimer:
The opinions expressed herein contain positions and viewpoints that are not necessarily those of IslamiCity. This forum is offered to stimulate dialogue and discussion in our continuing mission of being an educational organization.
If there is any issue with any of the postings please email to icforum at islamicity.com or if you are a forum's member you can use the report button.

Note: The 99 names of Allah avatars are courtesy of www.arthafez.com

Advertisement:



Sponsored by:
Islamicity Membership Program:
IslamiCity Donation Program  http://www.islamicity.com/Donate
IslamiCity Arabic eLearning http://www.islamiCity.com/ArabAcademy
Complete Domain & Hosting Solutions www.icDomain.com
Home for Muslim Tunes www.icTunes.com
Islamic Video Collections www.islamiTV.com
IslamiCity Marriage Site www.icMarriage.com