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 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : General : Science & Technology
Message Icon Topic: Flat Earth and the Geocentric Universe Post Reply Post New Topic
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schmikbob
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Quote schmikbob Replybullet Posted: 08 June 2014 at 8:38am
Welcome, everyone, to Abu Loren's world where the planet is flat, gravity does not exist and large waves that kill people never occur.

Abu Loren, saying that finding life outside our Solar System is "hard" is like saying nothing so maybe just stick with the nothing.
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TG12345
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Quote TG12345 Replybullet Posted: 08 June 2014 at 10:43am
Originally posted by Abu Loren

OK now I'm going to be real controversial here.

In the Qur'an verse 18:47 tells us that the mountains will be removed on the last day and the earth will become a level plain or prominent. This makes sense if the earth is flat. On Judgment Day every human being will stand in rows in front of God Almighty.

It is a bit silly if they all stand on a globe doesn't it?

Muhsin Khan

And (remember) the Day We shall cause the mountains to pass away (like clouds of dust), and you will see the earth as a levelled plain, and we shall gather them all together so as to leave not one of them behind. 18:47

Also I don't believe in gravity. It's just a made up word and sounds good to explain things we don't understand. All small object will be 'attracted' to a bigger entity, so every small thing will fall towards the big object.

Consider the following verse from the Qur'an 16:79

Sahih International

Do they not see the birds controlled in the atmosphere of the sky? None holds them up except Allah . Indeed in that are signs for a people who believe. 16:79

Tasfir

تفسير Tafsir al-Jalalayn
{ أَلَمْ يَرَوْاْ إِلَىٰ ٱلطَّيْرِ مُسَخَّرَٰتٍ فِي جَوِّ ٱلسَّمَآءِ مَا يُمْسِكُهُنَّ إِلاَّ ٱللَّهُ إِنَّ فِي ذٰلِكَ لأَيٰتٍ لِّقَوْمٍ يُؤْمِنُونَ }

Have they not observed the birds [how they are] made subservient,
disposed to [be able to] fly, in the air of heaven?, that is,
 in the air between the heaven and the earth. Nothing holds them,
 when they draw in their wings or open them, lest they fall, except God,
 by His power. Indeed in that there are signs for a people who believe,
[the signs] which are that they have been created in a way that enables
 them to fly, as well as the creation of the air in such a way that it allows for flight, and the holding of them [up in the air so that they do not fall].


If you've ever looked at a bird closely then you would have seen that the wings of the birds are just feathers. They do not have the strength to carry the body weight of these birds. It is only by Allah Subhana Wa Ta'alas Will that they fly.


Abu Loren, is this some kind of a joke?

Are you seriously stating that the Quran is implying that the earth is flat?


What is your game?


I'm not a Muslim, and I even I know that the Quran does not teach a flat earth or a geocentric universe. This is the kind of garbage that Robert Spencer would come up with. It makes a mockery of your faith.

This is coming from someone who doesn't believe Islam is from God in the first place.


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Ron Webb
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Quote Ron Webb Replybullet Posted: 08 June 2014 at 8:13pm
Originally posted by Abu Loren

I really feel sorry for you. God Almighty is not beyond our comprehension because we have His revelations which tells us Who He is and what He wants. Understanding this, then it is very easy to see that He made the natural world for us.

If God is not beyond our comprehension, then please tell me how He (allegedly) made the natural world.  If you can't answer that, then simply saying "God did it" accomplishes nothing more than giving a name to our ignorance.

This is what happens in a chaotic world. Consider also the calmness of the sea and the shore line where the sea does not transgress. It is all in perfect harmony, otherwise life would be impossible in this planet.

Okay, I'm mystified.  Is this a chaotic world, or is it in perfect harmony?

Let me also add this while we are on this subject.

I believe that you would not be able to find another 'earth like' planet anywhere. This is because planet earth is special as it is the one we have been granted by Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala. Thus life would also be hard to find outside our Solar System.

Yes, this planet is the one we have been granted; but where does it say that there aren't other beings that were granted other worlds?
Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.
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Ron Webb
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Quote Ron Webb Replybullet Posted: 08 June 2014 at 8:30pm
Originally posted by TG12345

I'm not a Muslim, and I even I know that the Quran does not teach a flat earth or a geocentric universe. This is the kind of garbage that Robert Spencer would come up with. It makes a mockery of your faith.

On the contrary, any impartial reading of the Quran would conclude that Muhammad did indeed believe the earth was flat and at the centre of the universe.  I know most modern Muslims don't believe that, but it shouldn't surprise anyone that Muhammad did.  It was a fairly common belief at the time -- not among the more educated classes, but then Muhammad was not a literate man.

What I don't understand is why Abu rejects a literal interpretation of the verses I quoted, and then goes on to reach roughly the same conclusions based on other verses. Confused
Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.
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Abu Loren
 
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 09 June 2014 at 3:08am
Originally posted by schmikbob

Welcome, everyone, to Abu Loren's world where the planet is flat, gravity does not exist and large waves that kill people never occur.

Abu Loren, saying that finding life outside our Solar System is "hard" is like saying nothing so maybe just stick with the nothing.


LOL yep my world is really weird and wonderful. All I'm asking people here is to throw out everything that you've been taught at school and look at the world and it's surroundings with a new perspective. What we've been taught at school may have been with the best of intentions but it could all be wrong.

Just sayin.............
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Abu Loren
 
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Quote Abu Loren Replybullet Posted: 09 June 2014 at 3:22am
Originally posted by Ron Webb


If God is not beyond our comprehension, then please tell me how He (allegedly) made the natural world.  If you can't answer that, then simply saying "God did it" accomplishes nothing more than giving a name to our ignorance.



Mr. Ron He tells us how He made the natural world. Please go and re-read the Qur'an for the answers. Let me just simplify it for you. Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala said "Be" and it was.

Yep God Almighty really did it. :)

Originally posted by Ron Webb



Okay, I'm mystified.  Is this a chaotic world, or is it in perfect harmony?



This is not a chaotic world but on the contrary. Everything is in perfect harmony because Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala Wills it. In a chaotic world life would not be possible. He tells us in the Qur'an that it is He who created the heavens and the earth and set the balance (meaning the requirements for life to exist).

Originally posted by Ron Webb



Yes, this planet is the one we have been granted; but where does it say that there aren't other beings that were granted other worlds?


I only go by the Qur'an and the Hadiths. As far as these are concerned the only created beings are the angels, jinn and human beings (not counting the animal and the plant and bacteria etc).

It's my BELIEF that life would not be found elsewhere because life only exists here on earth. We are special and unique. Allahu Akbar!
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Ron Webb
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Quote Ron Webb Replybullet Posted: 09 June 2014 at 4:38am
Originally posted by Abu Loren

Mr. Ron He tells us how He made the natural world. Please go and re-read the Qur'an for the answers. Let me just simplify it for you. Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala said "Be" and it was.

That doesn't help at all.  How could He say anything with no air or anything else to carry the sound waves?  And how could a word make a world?

This is not a chaotic world but on the contrary. Everything is in perfect harmony because Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala Wills it. In a chaotic world life would not be possible. He tells us in the Qur'an that it is He who created the heavens and the earth and set the balance (meaning the requirements for life to exist).

You may recall that in 2004 a tsunami in the Indian Ocean killed 230,000 people.  That was "perfect harmony"?

I only go by the Qur'an and the Hadiths. As far as these are concerned the only created beings are the angels, jinn and human beings (not counting the animal and the plant and bacteria etc).

As far as I know, the Quran does not mention bacteria, and yet they are by far the most abundant form of life on this planet.  Is it also your belief that bacteria don't exist?
Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.
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TG12345
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Quote TG12345 Replybullet Posted: 09 June 2014 at 4:59am
Originally posted by Abu Loren


I only go by the Qur'an and the Hadiths...


Unless of course we are talking about the situation of Muslims in the Arctic Circle during Ramadan. Since the Quran and hadiths prescribe rules for fasting that are impossible for them to follow, you appeal to 20th century scholars- who understandably tell them it is necessary to change what you believe God prescribed for them in His book.


Edited by TG12345 - 09 June 2014 at 5:00am
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