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Message Icon Topic: The irony in using science to deny Allah Post Reply Post New Topic
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kingkory
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Quote kingkory Replybullet Posted: 07 June 2014 at 6:38am
Sheep...we are all sheep. And to add to that all we need to do is look at the work of cloning ...I think that is why so many ppl look to science and the big bang theory for way to renounce a divine creator . After us "human" started cloning animals...that opened a whole new door on how we became..human
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Quote airmano Replybullet Posted: 16 June 2014 at 9:51am
Quranexplorer:
1.    What proof are you looking at for you to believe in Quran and Allah?

It could have been so easy:

Predicting (for example):

The existence of America,
The weirdness of quantum mechanics,
5 Eartquakes in a row(let's say with a precision of one day)
The (formulation and) proof of the four colour theorem
The supernova SN1054 in 1054.
....
just three or four of things/predictions like that and I'd turn into a believer. But there is nothing of that in the Quran. Nothing.

Sorry folks: Airmano

Edited by airmano - 16 June 2014 at 9:55pm
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Quranexplorer
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Quote Quranexplorer Replybullet Posted: 20 June 2014 at 4:49am
Originally posted by airmano


It could have been so easy:

Predicting (for example):

The existence of America,
The weirdness of quantum mechanics,
5 Eartquakes in a row(let's say with a precision of one day)
The (formulation and) proof of the four colour theorem
The supernova SN1054 in 1054.
....
just three or four of things/predictions like that and I'd turn into a believer. But there is nothing of that in the Quran. Nothing.

Sorry folks: Airmano


Good, so we have got the wish list from one out of 7.17 billion people on this earth. Going by an average of 4 predictions per each person, let's say that means 30 billion predictions approx to cover the whole population - what a practical way to prove Allah!! And that still leaves you with an option to ask for more - because human excuses can have no limit.

Instead if you really reflect on some of the Quranic verses, you won't be wasting your time on such silly arguments:

Al Anaam 6:158: Wait they, indeed, for nothing less than that the angels should come unto them, or thy Lord should come, or there should come one of the portents from thy Lord? In the day when one of the portents from thy Lord cometh, its belief availeth naught a soul which theretofore believed not, nor in its belief earned good (by works). Say: Wait ye! Lo! We (too) are waiting.
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Quote airmano Replybullet Posted: 23 June 2014 at 3:21am
@Quranexplorer: You explicitly asked me
What [kind of] proof are you looking at for you to believe in Quran and Allah?
and I gave you some examples.

I could have stayed more abstract by answering: "3 or 4 claims [in the Quran] being really more than unprovable statements like: "If you [don't] do this and that you'll go to hell" which cover already 75% of the Quran.
Funny stories (like the bee) covering 24.8% and the remaining 0.2% telling things that were already known or obvious at the time.
Since you didn't understand what I meant with the examples I've given, I strongly doubt you would if I had chosen a more abstract wording.

Seriously, I'd expect a bit more from a book that claims to be of divine origin.

Airmano


Edited by airmano - 23 June 2014 at 3:31am
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Quranexplorer
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Quote Quranexplorer Replybullet Posted: 04 July 2014 at 9:10am
Originally posted by airmano

@Quranexplorer: You explicitly asked me
What [kind of] proof are you looking at for you to believe in Quran and Allah?
and I gave you some examples.

I could have stayed more abstract by answering: "3 or 4 claims [in the Quran] being really more than unprovable statements like: "If you [don't] do this and that you'll go to hell" which cover already 75% of the Quran.
Funny stories (like the bee) covering 24.8% and the remaining 0.2% telling things that were already known or obvious at the time.
Since you didn't understand what I meant with the examples I've given, I strongly doubt you would if I had chosen a more abstract wording.

Seriously, I'd expect a bit more from a book that claims to be of divine origin.

Airmano


Al-E-Imran: 3:66: Lo! ye are those who argue about that whereof ye have some knowledge: Why then argue ye concerning that whereof ye have no knowledge? Allah knoweth. Ye know not.

I see that you have come up with a 75-24.8-0.2% summary of the Quran. Now if you are truthful, share the basis for this summary in this forum. There are 114 chapters and 6,236 verses in the Quran, have you gone through these in full to come up with your statistics? Or you just threw some numbers without having the slightest knowledge of what actually is there in the Quran?

I and for that matter all those who read this post know that you just threw it, but what you fail to understand is that such baseless statements only show how ignorant you are, and do nothing to the Quran.

Since you have already proven your ignorance of Quran, I will try to give you a glimpse of what the Quran is all about, with my limited knowledge:

Quran is a unique book of divine origin providing guidance to all those who ward off evil. The Quranic teachings can be broadly put under the following categories:

1.     Quran exhorts man to wisely use his limited free will to make the right choice in this life i.e. submission to the will of Allah.
2.     It contains the foundations for an entire system of life for those who choose to submit to the will of Allah, covering a whole spectrum of issues, which range from specific articles of faith and commandments to general moral teachings , rights and obligations, crime and punishment, personal and public law, and a host of other private and social concerns. (Ref: The Holy Quran English Translation of the meanings and Commentary,IFTA)
3.     For those who choose to submit to the will of Allah it gives glad tidings of eternal success in the hereafter.
4.     For the rebellious transgressors who after having availed all of Allah’s mercies, after having shown clear signs, after having given clear guidance through Quran- a book full of wisdom, after having guided through lives of numerous prophets and still choose not to believe, it gives warning of a grievous chastisement in the hereafter.

To drive home these points, Quran explains things using a variety of ways including references to signs of Allah’s sovereignty in the nature, historic account of previous generations, superior reasonings probing the minds of those who choose to reflect etc.

Now this is just to make you understand the depth of your ignorance when you throw some baseless statistics on Quran so that you don’t repeat it.

I have already explained you in the previous post why it does not make sense to look for miraculous predictions to prove the divine origin of Quran, and Quran gives sound reasoning on this aspect at multiple places :

Al-E-Imran: 3:183: (The same are) those who say: Lo! Allah hath charged us that we believe not in any messenger until he bring us an offering which fire (from heaven) shall devour. Say (unto them, O Muhammad): Messengers came unto you before me with miracles, and with that (very miracle) which ye describe. Why then did ye slay them? (Answer that) if ye are truthful!

But for those who sincerely look for guidance there are enough signs for them to appreciate the truth of Quran:

Al-Baqara: 2:164: Lo! In the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the difference of night and day, and the ships which run upon the sea with that which is of use to men, and the water which Allah sendeth down from the sky, thereby reviving the earth after its death, and dispersing all kinds of beasts therein, and (in) the ordinance of the winds, and the clouds obedient between heaven and earth: are signs (of Allah's Sovereignty) for people who have sense.
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schmikbob
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Quote schmikbob Replybullet Posted: 05 July 2014 at 7:43am
Science verses non-science. A clear winner to the uneducated
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Quranexplorer
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Quote Quranexplorer Replybullet Posted: 05 July 2014 at 7:54am
Originally posted by schmikbob

Science verses non-science. A clear winner to the uneducated


No, it is Truth Vs Falsehood being attempted to cover with science and reason - and truth is the winner always.
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airmano
 
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Quote airmano Replybullet Posted: 06 July 2014 at 12:47am
@Quranexplorer
Thanks for posting the verses. Let's have a closer look at them:
Al-E-Imran: 3:66: Lo! ye are those who argue about that whereof ye have some knowledge: Why then argue ye concerning that whereof ye have no knowledge? Allah knoweth. Ye know not.
Good start. This sentence has absolutely no provable content. It belongs thus to the 75% group.
Let's carry on:
(The same are) those who say: Lo! Allah hath charged us that we believe not in any messenger until he bring us an offering which fire (from heaven) shall devour. Say (unto them, O Muhammad): Messengers came unto you before me with miracles, and with that (very miracle) which ye describe. Why then did ye slay them? (Answer that) if ye are truthful!
Another unprovable statement. Again this goes into the 75% group.
Now:
Al-Baqara: 2:164: Lo! In the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the difference of night and day, and the ships which run upon the sea with that which is of use to men, and the water which Allah sendeth down from the sky, thereby reviving the earth after its death, and dispersing all kinds of beasts therein, and (in) the ordinance of the winds, and the clouds obedient between heaven and earth: are signs (of Allah's Sovereignty) for people who have sense.
Pretty much as before. Nevertheless, ships are indeed usefull and were already known at the time as mentioned. They go into the 0.2%.

May be that you were actually right after all, in the sense that the funny stories make probably less than 24.8%.

Airmano


Edited by airmano - 06 July 2014 at 12:03pm
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