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Whisper
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Quote Whisper Replybullet Posted: 14 November 2005 at 2:31pm

It is true that nations operate from their own self-interest, it is in the self-interest of the US, the west, the east and the world in general that the middle east is stable and preferably at peace with each other.

Only some absolutely idiotic people would attack an area they wish to keep stable. People who fail to see beyond their noses.

So, now the Mid East has become stable?

It's not turned into hotbed and a training institute of terror?

You really think we are idot and believe anything you post, especially, with a few ayaats studded here and there?

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Quote Whisper Replybullet Posted: 14 November 2005 at 2:33pm

The west sees democracy as the best and most just system of governance and it will never work against a government that is democratic.

Walahay, promise west (you mean just the US) has never acted against or broken a DEMOCRATIC government?

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Quote Whisper Replybullet Posted: 14 November 2005 at 2:38pm

. . . In this is a lesson to be learned, that the only way forward is to improve on justice, and those who fail sease to exist.

Thank you for proving my point though without your intention - the US has not been just with the world - specially with the man in the street - so they are at the brink of ceasing to exist. (the word is "cease")

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Quote Whisper Replybullet Posted: 14 November 2005 at 2:41pm
Sir, I am still patiently waiting for you to substantiate your implication that I had said that Karl Marx was a messenger of Allah.
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Quote Community Replybullet Posted: 14 November 2005 at 5:10pm
Cease then.
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Quote Community Replybullet Posted: 14 November 2005 at 5:31pm

You know there is a search option on here, just type in Carl Marx and go read your previous posts, i do not feel the urge to read through all your bitter tasting junk.

Just for the record, the west did not do much when they saw a fundamentalist regime being democratically elected in Algeria, this was because of their strong anti western rethoric, they had strong links to the resistance fighters of Afghanistan who tasted victory against the Soviets and felt confident enough to take on the west, how would you feel if you were in the shoes of lets say France or Spain or any other European and North African country (minus all your conspiracy theories and anger) i am sure France was not too thrilled about Algeria becoming a fundamentalist state since it has such a big Algerian immigrant population and also it being so near to Europe. The neighboring countries where not too thrilled about it.

Maybe Algeria was proof that Democracy does not work in the arab world...but a fundamentalist regime with strong anti western rethoric will not be acceptable by the western and eastern world for that matter. So what is the solution? simple, Cease hostility to either side (east or west) and be a source of safety instead of a threat. Remember the prophet and the faithful were not a threat to the non-muslims, but the non muslims chose to be a threat to the faithful. And this was the reason why the faithful had to migrate and then the first permission was given to the faithful to fight because they where killed in raids and when the pagans of Mecca started to form alliances with other tribes after being defeated in a battle it became an obligation to fight, simply because the existance of the faithful and thus the faith was at stake.

60:8 Allah forbids you not with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just.

Cease...indeed.



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Quote Community Replybullet Posted: 14 November 2005 at 6:15pm

Why the west did not say anything when the fundamentalists victory in Algeria was declared void is because they rather not have to deal with another state like Iran or Afghanistan that sought an eventual confrontation with the west. If Algeria became fundamentalist eventually they would wish to spread it over the borders to other North African nations, and clearly the ideology which these regimes hold and preach indicates a confrontational attitude towards the west and non fundamentalist nations. I am sure any reasonable humanbeing would understand that people rather not have such hostility towards them so close to their homes. And rather have it dealt with then it becoming even greater and eventually errupt into a war which would cost the lives of much more people. The west does not seek confrontation and seeks to deal with those who do before it gets bigger and would be the source of much more conflict and suffering. Europe does not agree with the course the US has taken, as in "taking the war to those who wish to wage it." Opinions can differ on what the best way to handle it, i am not going to judge wether Europe is right or wrong looking at it's handeling of it's immigrant population. Opinions differ.

What is this with muslims seeking confrontation with people who do not fight them for their faith and implement relgious freedom in their own nations?

Allah does not love the hostile (inna Allaha laa yuhibbu al mu'tadeen)

Al bagiy is also forbidden by Allah in the koran, and al baghiy means conquest.

So the only conclusion is that those who seek to conquer and are hostile are wrong and should better themselves. And for the world is to watch and see and act when necissary. The point where it is deemed necissary to act is not agreed upon by the world. France and other nations see the point as not there yet, the US clearly did. Wether waiting would be better in respect of human suffering or acting now costs more human lives i leave up to you.

If you are calculating and making a judgement on this issue of when to act you have understood the sides, so do not act like you can not understand them.



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Quote rami Replybullet Posted: 14 November 2005 at 6:35pm
Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

60:8 Allah forbids you not with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just.

Which does not contracict the command by Allah in the other verse that we should not take them as awliyah. dealing kindly with them is reffering as to how we should treat them as a people, taking them as awliayh is asking us not to take this kindness to the extent of alowing them any power over us or alowing them to have a hand in our political and religious afairs.

Community you generalise this issue to much, "Algeria did this" or "france didnt like that" dont refer to a people by there country by doing this you are ignoring any detail in the issue and treating the country eg Algeria as if it was a person, this is a desease of nationalism.

(O you who believe! Take not as protecting friends those who take your religion as a mockery and fun from among those who received the Scripture before you, nor from among the disbelievers; and have Taqwa of Allah if you indeed are true believers.) (5:57)

(O you who believe! Take not for protecting friends disbelievers instead of believers. Do you wish to offer Allah a manifest proof against yourselves) (4:144)



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Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
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